Need Advice For Packaged Home Alarm Purchase

Brinks is off the list. I called two independents but they didn't call me back.

Mike

Jim, thanks for taking the time to post your informative reply. My belief is everybody has their unique opinion. I've contacted two independents in my area. One had been sold twice and neither one called me back. So far, Brinks is out and ADT is on the list.

Mike

Slomins will place a lien on your home, and their warranty drives the rate from $25 per month to $37 per month. They also install refurbished equipment. If the choice is between ADT and Brinks I'm going with Brinks. Tyco/ADT is a complete joke. Don't disqualify Brinks so fast either. Monitronics is also an option (albeit not what they once were) you should look at. Never shop price in this industry because it will drive you nuts, and the cheapest upfront will always bite you in the ass in the long run. Check the Installation Quality Control Board website and find a few dealers in your area who are members. The IQ Board makes false alarm prevention their number one issue, and their installation guidelines back that up. Some of the characters offering "advice" have their own personal agendas so beware of these clowns spewing their nonsense. If they truly knew as much as they proclaim they would be more successful, and wouldn't be operating home-based businesses. Long term contracts work both ways. No company wants to sign a long term agreement with a customer who is going to be a pain in the ass or default on payments especially when the alarm company has more invested upfront than the customer. The alarmco has more to lose in the front end, and will do what it takes to retain your business for the long haul. Month to month companies can drop off the face of the earth in a second leaving you to go through this shit all over again, and they tend to switch central stations whenever a cheaper alternative comes along. An example of a solid central station is Rapid Response. An example of shoemaker centrals is AlarmCentral and NextAlarm. I'd guarantee most of those spewing crap about contracts, and installing companies have used no fewer than five different central stations during their tenures in this field. This is risky. The most important part of the system is the monitoring! All alarm systems are equal until an emergency occurs and you need immediate assistance. When the emergency arises is the separation time between the best and the rest. A few of us here have had hands-on experience with all of these companies, and our opinions will greatly differ so the job is YOURS to do the research. Take the bits and pieces from everyone, sift through the bullshit, add whatever FACTS you find, and good luck with your choice.

Mike wrote:

Until you read the back of the contract...at least the old contracts I have on file state you don't own the panel. Also, the bigger companies will escalate the monitoring fees almost yearly...and some even base your monthly on your credit rating.

| > Correct. Allow me to elaborate on what Crash said. By using | > proprietary equipment Brinks makes it impossible for you to ever | > switch to a different provider when (not if) you become disgusted | > with their service and angry over excessive charges for routine | > service. | >

| > Not only can you not have the Brinks system monitored by anyone | > other than Brinks. No one can repair it when (not if) it breaks | > down. | >

| > Lastly, and this is something the Brinks salesmen almost never | > tell anyone during the con... er, sales call, when you decide to | > stop paying for monitoring Brinks will not allow you to change | > the system to a local only (non-monitored) system. If you don't | > keep paying for it from now until Jesus comes back, you're | > totally jiminexed. | >

| > -- | >

| > Regards, | > Robert L Bass | >

| > Bass Burglar Alarms | > The Online DIY Store | >

What's wrong with /AD? ADT rep reports they Installation Quality Control Board website use two monitoring stations. Will check out Monitronics. Brinks got bad press in this message thread. Does any sites review the alarm companies? Will check out Installation Quality Control Board website

Mike

Mike, I won't bother to add too much more to this thread except to advise you to be just as careful of this gentleman's statements as you should be with anyone that posts here. He assumes far too much !! Read both sets of rationale, and make your own judgments. Often, those who can't justify their positions, use personal attacks as their only "weapon". I stand by everything that is posted on my website !

But for the record, I find it necessary to "correct" a few of his points. His statement that most alarmco's insist on long term contracts IS accurate and for the reasons he states, although the equity issue is entirely blown out of proportion. It is only one of many things that buyers use when evaluating a company for purchase. However, that is no reason why you as a shopper should not seek the shortest term contract you can find in the marketplace. Just because he, and a large part of the industry feel they have to lock you in to a contract for their own self interests, and which in most cases doesn't do a damn thing for you, doesn't mean that you as a consumer should accept it. In a free market, there are many ways to market a product, and only those with little appreciation for marketing will insist on doing things one single way, and especially "because that's the way it's always been done". It is my opinion that without a long term contract, some of the very largest companies simply couldn't keep their attrition rates at anything near normal levels (attrition means the number of accounts lost each year as a percentage of their installed base). Any dealer that is prepared to step up to the plate and provide service on a monthly basis, KNOWS that he has to keep you happy or see you disappear with a month's notice ! Ask yourself, who's really putting their money where their mouth is !! You remain "in the drivers seat", and this actually can serve to help in protecting you against poor service from your alarm company !! (and this is certainly NOT to suggest that you can expect bad service from the majority of alarmcos...most know that this is very much a service busines) But you see my point ! Why leave yourself open if you don't have to ?

If you choose to sign a long term committment for say, a cellphone, it means you have been given the phone for less up front, and they recover lost revenue over the term of the contract. Alarms are no different except when you own the alarm outright, or have paid a fair market price up front, there is no justification other than protecting their revenue stream, for locking you into an alarm contract. Forget the industry self serving statements; it IS that simple from YOUR perspective !! Pay high up front, low ongoing.......pay low up front, high ongoing ! The choice is yours, but the point is, you should have that choice - not be forced into it because there are no other choices in the market !! And you certainly shouldn't have to pay high at both ends as you'll soon find out dealing with the large conglomerates !!

Even with month to month terms, I guarantee my rates in writing for five years as you can see on my website, and this is no big deal if you know how the monitoring market works. Prices per monitored account go down at wholesale level the more you have monitored ! This gentleman particularily seems to feel that I attack other dealers in the industry; however, that is simply a reflection of his oversensitivity to the way I and many others work. In our local area alone, there are at least five companies that I know of working strictly on monthly term (one has 2000 accounts), and this gives them (and me) a decided advantage over companies who insist on locking clients in. I hear the same "sour grapes" all the time from other companies too !! Simply disagreeing with some of what our industry does, doesn't mean I'm attacking anyone (except in his mind...) and least of all, the industry as a whole that I've worked in for the last 12 years ! As you say, everyone has their unique opinion.... AND their unique way of working. Mine happens to differ from the industry norm, but it works very well for me (and my customers) !!

It's unfortunate that the local dealers didn't call you back. That is their loss and may be (unfortunately) ADT's gain....

RHC

"Mike" wrote in message news:z8gCf.12509$zh2.11315@trnddc01...

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

Mike,

I think it's only fair to add a comment to the above. Do a Google search on this newsgroup using any of the filthiest street language you can think of. You'll find that the fellow who hides behind the anonymous name "Alarminex" has filled this newsgroup with vitriol for years. 99% of his posts are nothing but foul, personal attacks.

In comparison, Mr. Campbell's posts are 99% helpful answers to anyone who comes here. While I gain some sales from newsgroup posting, I doubt Bob Campbell ever has. He's just one of those nice people you occasionally find who likes to help others out.

When I first started posting in this newsgroup 8 or 9 years ago I had a problem programming a DIY client's alarm system in California. I was in CT at the time. Bob Campbell made several international phone calls trying to help my customer out. It turned out the fellow had a bad connection IIRC, so Bob was unable to get through. I offered to compensate Bob for his time and expenses but hew would not hear of it.

Jim would have you believe that Bob is just a money-grubber, running down the industry to make a profit for himself. In point of fact, Jim has repeatedly stated that he charges as much as he can get away with. He has also done much to harm the image of my and Bob's industry with his behavior in this newsgroup. Every time he starts harassing someone with his enraged flames, people ask what the heck kind of people these are who call themselves professionals and behave like street thugs.

I wasn't going to enter the fray but Jim's attacks on Bob Campbell should not go unchallenged. It's obscene that someone so vile should attack one of the best participants in this newsgroup, all the more so that he does it claiming Bob is hurting our industry.

And all of this comming from the most nortoious and blatently nasty person Usenet has ever encounterd.

Why don't you tell us how many people in this Newsgroup actually want anything to do with you?

Why don't you take a poll and see how many actually think that what you do and have done to this group over the years, is commendable?

The only reason you can continue to post here with impunity is because you know that no one is going to take the time to go back and check out

what a perverse individual you are. Why is it that YOU are the only one who has a multitude of people posting negative posts about, constantly, for years, in this Newsgroup. You've been thrown out of other groups because you've lied about people and gone real life with them to ruin their reputations, simply because they didn't tolerate you arrogance. Calling peoples employers, and making false claims to authorities to get people in trouble.

And the amazing thing about all of this is that your reputation and record of depraved behavior in Usenet is so extensive it's actually too ridiculous to describe.

You're a nasty, sinister degenerate that deserves exactly what you get in this group.

R.H.Campbell wrote:

And often those who can't compete in any other way, have to relentlessly ridicule legitimate business practices of their competition and give away revenue and the equity in their business, in order to keep up with the rest..

That's what YOU say, but you know that if you were to ask anyone in this group or any one who purchases accounts or issues "paper" for business loans ...what is the most important item determining value .... you know darn well that it would be, how many and what the terms of the contracts are. If there weren't any contracts longer than one month, they would hardly waste their time going through any of the other due diligence that normally follows. You've been corrected an informed of this dozens of times by people who purchase accounts and by those who've sold accounts. You just refuse to admit or recognize it simply to justify your ridiculous policy of giving away free service and no contracts, just so you can compete in your market.

So you think that just because YOU, don't find a need to increase the equity of your company, that you should mislead consumers into believing that they are going to be able to find someone who will offer them month to month contracts when you know that the possibility of doing so is virtually non existent.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with developing a marketing plan that suits you and implementing it. Where the problem arises is when you feel that you have to justify it, by implying that everyone who doesn't agree with you is scamming the public and by you incessantly accosting every end user who comes here, looking for advice, with your tirades about them looking for companies that will give them month to month contracts. Which you admit and KNOW is not going to happen.

Thats utterly foolish. To imply that any company who has the means and foresight to build equity in his company, should give up that opportunity and revenue and "give" it to a consumer for no other reason than that's what YOU think is the right thing to do. If YOU don't want to have equity in your company that's just fine. But for you to mislead consumers into believing all other companies should do what you do, That's wrong. Just as you have a right to run YOUR company the way you want to, others have the same right. If YOU weren't continuously harping on the subject and constantly misleading consumers who come here, ...... no one would say a THING to you about the way you run your company. But YOU keep bringing up the subject and then get bent out of shape because someone objects to what you're saying. As long as you feel you have to mislead consumers who come here, and imply that alarm companies who use term contracts are scamming the public, you're going to get opposition. When you keep you business to yourself, then you won't have to constantly defend your defenseless policy.

That is so overtly presumptuous for you to imply that if someone DOESN'T have a contract, that they'll receive better service. So in YOUR view, if a company has a long term agreement, that is adding equity to his company, he's going to NOT give good service because he knows he's got a customer for a YEAR? What about AFTER the year when the customer doesn't renew the agreement? In your warped imagination, can you conjure up the thought that it would be to the greater benefit for an alarm company who would lose the monthly income, along with the equity of all of his accounts, to give his clients better service, than a company with one month agreements who has NOTHING but monthly income to lose and who has the contractual liability of providing free parts and service? Who's got the most to lose if they don't give good service? What do you care? You're not going to sell your accounts ( you say!). You only care about monthly income. You don't want to build equity in your company. It seems to me as if YOU'RE the one that someone should be afraid to do business with. You can drop out at anytime with nothing to lose. There's no incentive at all for you to stay in business. No equity...and liability for parts and service. That puts you in the realm of any other fly by night home improvement company, with only installations as a source of income, no assured recurring revenue, so no source of equity, a heavy parts and service liability and therefore a company who's value is deemed as only "good will"

You categorize it as self serving and thereby imply that term contracts is a practice that was created by the alarm industry as a ruse to entrap consumers and are employed simply as an act of greed and entrapment. When in fact, it is a business practice employed by many industries for decades and decades. It's a viable means for a small or medium entrepreneur to build his company up in value and/or to obtain revenue to increase the size of his business. You portray this practice as some sinister plan made up in back rooms and designed solely to entrap the public and you know that's simply rubbish.

And YOU know that the only choice that he will find in the market place is term agreements. YOU know that companies have term agreements so that they can build equity in their companies.So what exactly is it that you're trying to do here? Do you actually think that the whole industry is going to change, simply because you have taken up this position of misleading consumers who come here for advice? What's your goal, to mislead each consumer, one by one until the whole world sees term agreements through your jaundiced colored glasses?

You call it an advantage but you fail to mention what giving that advantage costs you. YOU don't have term agreements. In return, you have no equity in your company. YOU give free service. In return, you lose revenue and reduce your profit margin. YOU replace parts for the life of the agreement. Again, you lose revenue and reduce your profit margin. So ultimately, you severely limit your business choices by strapping your company with the liability of no assured income, a committed on going expense in parts and service and thereby a company of reduced value as an asset and eventually, as a saleable business.

. Your competition doesn't do these things but many of them give away what are known as "FREE" alarm installation, which you complain about as being misleading. The only difference between you and them, is that you give away a piece of your business with every sale and they don't. You just don't have to let your clients in on the fact that you're not running your business in as profitable a manner as your competition. Must be nice to have all that OTHER income to subsidize your business.

Oh yes and speaking of "SOUR GRAPES"....When doing a search under your name using "long term contract" it comes up with a lot of nasty things you've said about dealers who use them. "Scam", "cooked", "trapped into signing", "forced to sign", "hold their client captive". Calling client's "victims", "conning the public", " the long term contract is just so much bullsh*t"

That's not "sour grapes" Hmmmmmm?

That's reeeeeallly good for you. But ..... again, just as the rest of the people in this group, don't push consumers who come here to SIGN term agreements, there's no reason for you to incessantly barrage them with your policy of NOT signing them. If it works for you, that's fine. There's no reason to make it seem that any company (which amounts to virtually ALL) who asks for term agreements is doing something wrong.

Yes Robert, there IS a disagreement here. Between you and the rest of the industry. But you do this all the time. Every time a consumer comes here, you barrage them with your beliefs and policies and when opposed, you claim that any objection is "sour grapes" fostered by something that's made up? A disagreement is a disagreement, but do you interpret that as .... once the disagreement has been discussed that it leaves you free to continue to plague the group with your incessant ranting about what your beliefs and policies are, and no one is supposed to object to it?

Jeeeez Robert. Isn't it amazing how the picture changes when you lay all the cards on the table?

You have no idea if ADT will give them good service or not.

Don't tell us you're going to start on THAT vendetta again ...... too?

Hey, don't try to convince me; talk to the poster Mike. You'll pardon me if I don't bother to read through your posts on this subject anymore! I don't care what you think although he might ! The only thing that matters is that he goes into his shopping with his eyes open, understanding ALL the options, not just the ones that best serve the industry. And that is my only intention, irrespective of what you believe !!

I don't think you're convincing any other dealer to change their ways any more than I am!! We all do business in whatever way works best. But rest assured, I WILL continue to caution consumers who come here looking for information whether you like it or not. It is they, not you or I, who sign on the dotted line, and it is they not you or I who will untimately decide this question, each for themselves...

RHC

Signed: "The white knight"......:)))

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

the guy who installed it, sold it ahahahahahahahahahaha, too many laughs tonight

Note to Bob C Write something on your page about "flipping paper" so we can warn these poor folks about something more important than the dreaded LTC

There is far too much being made of long-term contracts here. Bob, have you crunched numbers? My guess is that your AVERAGE "contract" over the last 10 years has lasted about 3 years, maybe 4 No?

Yeah, this thread is getting REALLY boring ! I had actually started on something like that out of curiosity. My best guess is about the average...5 to 7 years or so. Going through my 6 filing cabinets, I have marked all disconnected systems with a yellow tag. Although I haven't "crunched any numbers", it seems most of my original customers of 10 or 12 years ago are still with me, but a lot of the more recent high tech customers tend to move quite a bit, and I'm on the second and sometimes third system for many of them. The only systems I've lost so far are those who have moved away, or in one case, who died. Don't always get the new homeowner, especially if he is forced to take another company in order not to have to buy out his original contract (oops ! ....sorry Mike....), but more often it's just they don't want to have anything to do with the installed alarm system in any fashion. Key is to post your contact information and your service package details on the can; most customer don't go any further in their shopping, especially if the departing homeowner gives you good press....

Truth is, customers stay with you or leave you based on how they perceive they are being treated, LTC or not ! Real estate people have a saying...there are three important rules..."location, location and location". With us, I suspect it's more like ..."service, service, and service"...

But hey, what do I know ! If I wasn't only a small, poor independant, I could have a REAl and large company selling worthless mini systems and flipping paper !!....:))

RHC

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

No contract I have ever read claimed a hold on a rate for longer than ONE year. Of course it's the perogative of any company to raise rates if they want, most contracts will give a optout to the client with a 30 day warning. I've only lost ONE client in 20+ years due to rate increase of 6.00 PER year (50 cents per month).

My lead salesman was a local manager of a big three letter corporate type alarmco for many years before he came to work for me and he told me of routine rate hikes of up to 7% at the time. If you have enough clients and you raise their rates a few percent - sure you may lose a few but the rmr goes up much more to justify it.

And most companies will make compromises on a one-to-one basis if someone complains or threathens to cancel anyway.

| >

| > | > Correct. Allow me to elaborate on what Crash said. By using | > | > proprietary equipment Brinks makes it impossible for you to ever | > | > switch to a different provider when (not if) you become disgusted | > | > with their service and angry over excessive charges for routine | > | > service. | > | >

| > | > Not only can you not have the Brinks system monitored by anyone | > | > other than Brinks. No one can repair it when (not if) it breaks | > | > down. | > | >

| > | > Lastly, and this is something the Brinks salesmen almost never | > | > tell anyone during the con... er, sales call, when you decide to | > | > stop paying for monitoring Brinks will not allow you to change | > | > the system to a local only (non-monitored) system. If you don't | > | > keep paying for it from now until Jesus comes back, you're | > | > totally jiminexed. | > | >

| > | > -- | > | >

| > | > Regards, | > | > Robert L Bass | > | >

| > | > Bass Burglar Alarms | > | > The Online DIY Store | > | >

Correction: Those awards are NOT given out to the largest advertiser.

What a typo. Mikey has me flustered thinking about beavertail.

Mr.Double-sided tape wrote:

While I owned a small central station alarm company for 24 years I offered two options for monitored accounts. The customer could take a one-year contract, renewable annually with the price guaranteed for three years or they could choose a three-year contract with the price guaranteed for three years. Either way, the price was the same. I billed residential clients annually. The first year of monitoring service was included with the purchase of any system.

My C-S was very small, located in an office attached to my home, which had originally been a doctor's office / residence. Because we were not UL listed our overhead was lower than the typical c-s alarm company. As such, we were able to keep our prices a bit lower than our competitors. That worked quite well for us and for our clients. YMMV.

Nothing is universal. Some firms offer fair and reasonable terms. Others don't.

I raised my annual rate $12 once and lost three out of the then current 500 or so clients. People expect an occasional increase from any service provider.

I've seen commercial fire alarm monitoring / service contracts that ran from $50 to over $1,000 a month. The highest was an ADT corporate bid for a condo property (3 buildings) in Miami. They wanted over $140K for the installation plus $1500 a month for service & monitoring. Quarterly inspection visits were part of the plan. Given the scope of the project, I estimated that one technician would need to spend between three and four hours per quarterly visit. Not bad beans if you can get it.

I sold the people the hardware for ~$19,000. A local electrician installed it for another $20,000-30,000 (I forget the exact amount). Last I heard they negotiated an inspection contract with a UL listed outfit from the area that cost them about $350 a month, including monitoring.

True indeed. Furthermore, you usually lose the most difficult ones when you raise the rate a few dollars. FWIW, I have nothing against dealers writing contracts that net them a fair price for their hardware, work and knowledge. I also happen to agree with Bob C that long-term contracts, in and of themselves, rarely offer anything of value to the consumer.

Yep. In the late eighties (I think that was it) we went through a recession. A lot of people in the insurance and technology industries which were the main bread and butter of the Greater Hartford area lost their jobs. A number of our clients called and told us they couldn't continue the monitoring Ellen they received their annual invoices. I asked each one if they had lost a job. Several said the had and I responded by waiving the bill for one year. After a year or two most found new jobs or moved on. Those who did never even considered changing alarm companies. They also referred me to many friends and family members over the years.

Robert, thanks for taking the time to write your post. It's unfortunate when wars break out in newsgroups. They create such hard feelings and suck the life out newsgroups. I really enjoyed reading Bob Campbell's posts.

Mike