Re: LOCKED PANEL

I say MY because I installed them, but they were paid in full...not leased, and no...not locked...well, 2 of the 4 were not locked. Brinks wouldn't take them over they wanted to sell the owner their own proprietary crap...although they could easily have taken them (unlocked Vistas)...the other two they wouldn't have taken them even if they were unlocked. In all cases they didn't even try a take over - the salesmen just wanted to sell...but the new owners weren't buying.

| > I've had client's homes get sold with MY system in the house (no one ever | > notifies us), my decals, my lawnsigns - Brinks must have an "in" with | > realtors because they put decals "Call BRINKS for Service etc..." on my | > boxes (they even put them on my beautiful keypads). I know because I get | > called by the NEW homeowner AFTER Brinks has been there an wanted to sell | > them a new system, new service contract, (remove MY working system). My | > guess is the realtor gets a little "taste" for every house they convert. | >

| > Takes me 10 minutes to reprogram the system and get the new people back | > online with the existing working system I originally installed. | >

| > Interesting eh? | >

| | Just for clarification .... when you say "MY system" I'm presuming | that this is a system that you installed and your customer paid for | and you're now monitoring it ?????? | | I'm asking because .....there are those people who say, that after a | panel is paid for, that you should unlock it. That it belongs to the | subscriber. Which .... it seems that this is a case that if Brinks | were to find the panel unlocked, that they'd take it over in a second, | because they;d be the first one there and you'd be SOL at even having | a shot at it. | | So, it seems that to the "anti Lockout people"..... locking out a | panel is only good if you keep the account away from a National | company but not alright if it's a small company........ or one that | only thrives on doing takeovers? | | Funny how that works ..... huh? | | Must be these "anti lockout people" have some kind of a "thing" just | for the Nationals. Or .... who knows ...... could be that they're just | hypocrites in desguise. |

Yep.

"May have?" Harrumph!

As I'm sure you know, Brinks does that because after scrapping the victim's perfectly good security system and installing their *leased* garbage, the customer is stuck using them and them only. They make a tidy profit on the installation and then screw the customer as long as he owns the house. Nice folks, eh?

no one is "stuck" doing anything!!!! they are "bound" by the terms of the contract. if they do not want to meet the terms, then don't sign. it's as easy as that. why is it so hard for people to understand that a contract is a contract?!?!? what ever happened to people who actually PAY their bills??

I've never met a Brinks client that knew about the system being proprietary.

I met these Brinks clients because they were not exactly thrilled with Brinks.

I believe a client should be able to choose another monitoring company after he has paid for his system & fulfilled his contractual obligation to whoever he is signed with...and you can't if you have Brinks stuff

| > -- | >

| > Regards, | > Robert L Bass | >

| > =============================>

| > Bass Home Electronics | > 941-925-8650 | > 4883 Fallcrest Circle | > Sarasota · Florida · 34233 | >

| >

| >

| |

That is simply not true, friend. Anyone who has a Brinks system can only get service, parts and / or monitoring through Brinks. Their systems are proprietary.

They are stuck because the salesmen *never* tell them the truth -- that the systems are leased and that they cannot get service elsewhere.

The Brinks salesmen invariably misrepresent the agreement. Many homeowners have trouble understanding the agreement. Many more, unfortunately, are so swayed by the slick presentation that they fail to read the thing before signing. The slugs who infest the industry (and this newsgroup) will surely respond that it's the customers' own fault if they don't read. While failing to read does expose people to being taken advantage of, their would be no danger were it not for the complete dishonesty of most Brinks salesmen, not to mention Brinks itself.

Why is it so hard for alarm salesmen to understand that consumers are trusting alarm companies with their families' safety and well-being and that they ought to stop lying, cheating and taking advantage of the public?

What ever hapened to alarm salesmen who gave a rat's jiminex about their customers?

Legally contracts are more than a piece of paper that allows one group or person to take advantage of another group or person. Contrasts can be voided for all sorts of vague reasons given the right judge in the proper jurisdiction. Bankruptcy is one simple way to almost always void an otherwise onerous contract for example. So in many cases when someone thinks they can rat dick someone just because some person or group has a piece of paper, all that can turn around mighty quickly sometimes, and then suddenly a contract is NOT a contract?!?!?

I don't hide behind an alias. I've been here for about 9 years now and only changed my screen name once because of the fact Dead Ass, posted it a cajillion times so that it was picked up by who ever looks for things like that to send spam too. I changed it and now limit my E- mail. I didn't try to hide the fact that I changed it and it was a similar name. If you're talking about the fact that I wont let you are anyone like you or Dead Ass know who I am, then you're right. But that just makes me smart enough to know that if I didn't ..... I'd have had my neighbors contacted and who know what else Dead Ass would have done by now, to uneven the score of the turmoil he's caused here for years. You can bet your ass, if he didn't want to advertise his website here, he'd be doing the same thing. HE'S the rottern son of a bitch that has caused all this garbage to happen. The record of what he's done to people is readily available and it's just not going to happen to me. So look at it any way you want, I was smart enough from the very beginning, even as a newbee, to conceal my identity and it's a damn good thing I did, considering what a bastard Dead Ass turned out to be simply if you disagree with him.

I've stated it before but in a nut shell, I lock my panels when they're installed. They stay locked as long as I monitor the system. If people move out, whether I'm informed or not, the board stays locked. If the new people call me to resume monitoring, obviously, the board stays locked, again while I monitor the system. Should the new owner want to go with someone else and never calls me, the board, obviously, will remain locked and the owner, unfortunately will likely get ripped off by the new installer, if the installer isn't honest enough to tell the owner he can call me. If he calls and asks me to unlock it, if I can download it, I'll do it at no charge. If I have to make a trip, for some/any reason, I get a check (waiting for it to clear first) prior to making the trip, or cash payment when I walk in the door, for a service call.

I think someone ummm maybe it was Petrum who had a problem with this last part when I stated it ....a number of years ago. I think he didn't like the idea that I charged for unlocking the board. To me ..... regardless, a service call is a service call.

By the way, there are company decals on all my panels and jobs.

If I'm monitoring the system, it's mandatory that contracts are signed prior to the commencement of work. 99% of contracts are 5 years with one year renewal after the first 5 years. In some cases, I'll go for one year for the first year. If they don't cancel in one year, it reverts to the standard 5 year. In New York, it is mandatory to notify clients via certified letter that their contracts are renewing. First one is sent in 5 years, thereafter at one year intervals unless new contracts are signed and 99% of the time they are.

I think that's all you should need to take your shot.

Gimmy a break already! I don't necessarily have time to sit down and read every thread, every day. Jeeeeeze already!!!!

RHC: Ok, you've stated your position and that's how you choose to run things. Although I find your approach unusually harsh, I don't know the business conditions you work under so I don't pass judgment on that part of it. I gather things are far more competitive in your area and there are more underhanded tactics being employed by competitors, so it's perhaps understandable. However, I would certainly take issue with the fact you don't unlock the customer's board once his contract is up with you, forcing him to get back to you for unlocking, or the new installation company to do the same. Plus, I don't think a charge to the customer is fair to undo something you've done to HIS equipment solely to provide a measure of protection to yourself. If things are so hard nosed within the industry where you are, it's not likely the competitive company would even bother to contact you, thereby ensuring the client would end up being charged for a new board almost automatically. So the customer would end up penalized unfairly regardless.

One of the other problems with taking a wholesale approach to locking boards is a lot of small guys leave the business leaving a useless board in their wake. I know this doesn't apply to you since you have been in business a lot of years, but in my unregulated area, it is very common. The put in 10 or so "free systems", decide it is too expensive to continue, and simply disappear. One of the large companies in our area buys up smaller companies like this, and even some not-so-small ones. Even though the installer codes are given to them when the deal is done, a lot of panels don't end up having those installer codes in them, and the buyer ends up with a useless board.

RHC: I would have to agree with him on this. I think a service call that is generated because you cannot undo something that you should have undone when his contract was up is not reasonable.

I think that's all you should need to take your shot.

RHC: I'm not here to "take a shot" at anyone including you. I would like to think that as professionals we could discuss things intelligently even when we TOTALLY disagree with each other as we do. Needless to say, you and I are at both ends of the spectrum regarding how we run our businesses. So be it ! Neither will change the other. Perhaps my business couldn't even be run in your neck of the woods, and your's likely wouldn't survive in my environment; so be it !!

BTW, suggesting as you do that if I knew who you actually are would represent some kind of threat to you is ridiculous. When I close down my computer and the virtual world disappears, so does everything about it. There are only three people I have met in person on this newsgroup...Mikey, who is local: Jim Rojas in Tampa and RLB both of whom I have had the pleasure of meeting, and both of whom are quite unlike there on line persona.

I suggest you might want to reserve judgment about people until you have met them.

yes, it is true....you get "stuck" when you don't read contracts. and, again, bASS, i am not and never will be your friend!!!!

the salesmen should not HAVE to...it's in the contract!

then they should not sign!!

Many more,

then they should not sign!!

it's the customers' own

now you're coming around!!

While failing to read does expose people

hello?? did you actually read what you typed!!?!!? if there were "danger" due to the "dishonesty of most Brinks salesmen, not to mention Brinks itself", then wouldn't everyone read the contract just to make sure they were not getting screwed?!?!? you are an idiot!!

if the customers safety is that important (and it should be) then READ THE CONTRACT!!!

We do not use boiler plate microscopic contracts. We went out of our way to redo all our contracts so they are in larger type, single 8.5 x 11 paper, so the customer can actually read them. We removed all the confusing legal terms, because the customer did not go to law school. It is this practice that has gained us a nice market share. We even leave the contract with the customer prior to them signing it. This way they can take their time to read it all. We also place initial lines by each critical paragraph to insure that the customer has read it. We call this honest selling practices. We even have a translation forms in spanish, french, and can get then translated to just about any other language thanks to the internet.

If Brinks was to do this, they would not get as many customers to sign otherwise.

If the system is rented or leased, we place that statement on the front page of the schedule of protection, in larger bold type so there is no question about ownership.

We also do not install basic systems. We do every opening, period.

We charge $34.95 for 3 years to recover our costs, with no credit checks. We do ask for a drivers license & SS card, and we do verify employment.

After the 3rd year, the customers rate drops to $22 a month, which includes a full maintenance contract that includes battery replacement. We mail customers batteries for wireless devices because we get them for $1 each on the internet. We do not charge to come out to the home. We do limit each customer to 4 service calls a year to keep our costs down. After the 4th call, we charge a $25 trip charge. To this day, we have yet to visit any customer more than twice a year.

This practice would bankrupt companies like Brinks.

Angry Man In Gauteng

I've never met a Brinks client that knew about the system being proprietary.

I met these Brinks clients because they were not exactly thrilled with Brinks.

I believe a client should be able to choose another monitoring company after he has paid for his system & fulfilled his contractual obligation to whoever he is signed with...and you can't if you have Brinks stuff

| > -- | >

| > Regards, | > Robert L Bass | >

| > =============================>

| > Bass Home Electronics | > 941-925-8650 | > 4883 Fallcrest Circle | > Sarasota · Florida · 34233 | >

| >

| >

| |

I don't know what your cost structure is like, but that kind of pricing would bankrupt many other companies besides just Brinks. I know ours would be history if we charged like that.

I don't disagree with you that a client should read a contract before signing it. That's only common sense. And once signed, they should honour it as most do. However, it is not quite as clear cut as you suggest. Most customer trust the party they are dealing with, and perhaps more so with their security provider, due to the nature of what we do. As a result, in the exercise of obtaining the alarm and going through all that is required, it is human nature to just go ahead and sign, based on trust (maybe not wise with some companies for sure....). Here in Ontario, the law gives a client a further 10 days to decide to either accept the terms or call and cancel the deal as long as the contract was signed in their home or place of business. I guess the government recognizes the tendency of some companies to use high pressure tactics to get the signature on the contract, and decided to give consumers a short period of further thought.

I have over 1000 clients and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who have asked for a minute or two to read the fine print of the contract. Most people don't want to take this step for fear of insulting the alarm dealer, as it might appear that they don't trust you. And this is not a good way to start off any long term relationship. I do know a lot of companies will step through the contract in fair detail with the client, and what the obligations are on both sides, as a way of further cementing their relationship with the customer. IMO, this is a good practicel Hot shot salesmen though, under commission pressure, may not always be so inclined unfortunately.....

I have a clause that governs use of my decals which is different from the industry standard contract, and which is always explained to the client. I'm sure others do much the same. Bottom line though, a contract is a contract. As long it contains no illegal clauses, it is a valid and enforceable document....

RHC

that just bASS pretending he's a real alrmco.

Where do you do business? I couldn't even get the CA state requirements on one sheet of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. My contract is legal size and covers two pages, and I still need to add more language. js

OK. That explains that. js

I would have posted but I've been in Denver for 2 days, sorry