Any knowledge / insight / info on DMP panels?

Does the flash upgradeability really make that much of a difference? I know my folks are running an old Napco system (from '91), that obviously hasn't been touched in 17 years. Once the system is installed and functional, why would you both upgrading it? What new things do they come out with in the firmware upgrades that make flash upgrades a worthwhile thing to have? Or is that more for something when you want to modify your system configuration that it can come in handy?

It's both a question of if the company goes belly up and/or if I don't like the service that I am getting from them. Then where to turn / what to do. I like having the ability to do things myself; I would hate putting myself in a position where I can only call someone in to do it for me. I'm a hardware engineer and a very hands-on person. I have no problems outsourcing things when it is required, but I like to know that if I want to add / modify things myself, that I have the ability, and that I am not forced to call in an exclusive dealer to handle things.

Would you mind educating me as to why you are so opposed to DSC? It sounds like you have had serious problems with their technology in the past. Is the company not reputable, or do they produce pooring QA'ed equipment? Or is their support lackluster?

Thanks for the advice!

Eric

FYI - I did call DMP this morning to try to get more information about the dealers in my area and to find out if the dealer is truly exclusive in this market or not. At first, they transferred me to the wrong rep - that rep hasn't handled my territory in over 3 months. When I did finally get transferred to the right rep, I got voicemail and am still waiting for a call back. I'm hoping they'll call me back Monday without me needing to call in a third time. I was hoping to find a list of dealers on their website, but they don't have any listed there either.

Eric

Funny you should say that. I did reprogram my parent's Napco via the keypad. Not difficult; more just a pain in the butt. Without the installer's manual, though, forget about it. But I didn't find it particulalry worse than programming a DSC panel via the keypad...

Eric

Agreed. But at least I could get feedback from other users out there; either from forums, newsgroups or from a selection of different installers/dealers as opposed to a single one.

Exactly. So whether it is a standard panel that is locked by them, or a proprietary CP, end result is pretty much the same; you get stuck needing ADT to make any of the changes themselves, and themselves only. Same concept as DMP in that case - no?

I live in Canada. I don't know if that makes any difference or not.

I felt the same way.....

No, no. Not installed for $500. Just the cost of the hardware. But once I add together DSC CP, cellular transmitter, IP transmitter, zone extender and control panel, I came up with a quick cost of about 1K. I figured that if I had to buy things locally (as opposed to on the net), it would cost me about

25% more. So when this dealer is suggesting that similar equipment would cost $500 from DMP, it made me take notice. I'm guessing that the cost of installing DMP or DSC should be roughly the same, assuming that it is the same number of zones, etc.

Really, it is the cost of DMP and the ability to remotely flash the systems that i find very enticing.

Eric

No idea yet. He was to email me a quote today, but I didn't get anything from him yet. I'm expecting to get something monday and will let you know. An no - they are not an S&W dealer; purely security alarms / home automation.

Eric

You won't get DMP that cheap I don't think, and YOU will not be able to flash anything only a dealer can.

Gimme the model numbers of all parts spec'd and I'll tell you if you're getting a fair price.

No, neither would be good DIYer.

I could give you a program sheet but you still wouldn't understand what it means and what effect each entry has.

Take a look at say and Ademco/Honeywell Vista 10P control panel...very easy to program...if you know the language...maybe.

Hi Bob,

Thanks so much for insight and advice. It definitely gives me more to think about. Given your feelings towards DMP, what do you recommend as a system for the typical homeowner in that case? I'm not looking for massive home automation, or anything, but just something that will protect the family. I was considering DSC due to the ease of getting parts for it and the ability to DIY, but I got the feeling from Crash Gordon that DMP was in a league way above and beyond DSC. So now I'm not sure anymore. I was also considering Ademco (simply b/c I already have a Vista 15 installed), so was considering continuing with their Vista 20P line, but really not sure any more.

Any suggestions? A big criteria that I have is that I don't want a system where I will be tied to a specific installer or forced to call someone in to service it if it isn't something major. Adding zones and/or sensors is stuff I could do myself, and even reprogramming minor settings (like timeouts, delays, etc) to tweak it to my needs.

Thanks,

Eric

Depends on your level of sofistication and what you really want to do. I personally sell and install Napco preferrentially, but have also isntalled DSC, FBII, CADDX, ADEMCO, and a few esoteric panels. They all have different ways of doing some things. If you are really justr ying to keep things simple not much installs and programms simpler than a Napco Gemini P801 with a regular LED keypad, but the FBII XL2 series is close. I always looked at the programming for the smaller DSC panels and said it looked simple and always got confused and reprogrammed it a second time just to make sure I had it right. Might justbe because I have not done that many. Most of my Ademco programs have been takeovers, and they were not bad, but you have to have the better LCD keypads to program them easily on site. On some of the panels you can't even get some sections to program with out it.

Personally for a small simple panels I like Napco, but then I have personally installed and programmed hundreds of them. For bigger more complex stuff I still like Napco, but I'm not sure I would reccomend them for a DIY tinkerer. Their bigger panels are quite powerful and feaure rich, but can be tricky as heck to program. I hear the ELK M1G is the cat's meow for automation, but I know a few years ago it seemed liek everybody was integrating PC integration packages with the Napco P9600. HAI OMNI LT looks good on paper, but after playing with a few I feel its too much comprimise in its design. I do not think its quiote a good enough HA controller or quite clean enough in its alarm functions.

The dealer who said he is the only one installing Napco in your area may be correct, but any dealer can buy the hardware from regular distribution sources. In the event you want to change companies a board swap can be done even if you can not get the programmer code. I do that with DSC takeovers, and then I just send the board to Jim Rojas for unlocking.

DSC has had some problems in the past, but their current line of panels is top flight. That having been said, there's a lot more to consider these days when making a decision on which panel you want. DSC *is* good stuff, but is a little "Mickey Mouse" on the home automation end. Napco, Ademco, and Elk all offer more flexibility in this respect.

Some Dealers (myself included) have run into some really bad times with DSC. They're considered (by many) to be the "Microsoft" of alarms. They release product before fully testing it and leave it to us guys in the field to do that for them. That has got to be my biggest beef with them. I can recall having to change 184 chipsets on one of their "Classic" series 3000 panels because the version of chip they supplied would "auto arm" by partition (even though the system was programmed as a single partition). Changing the chip meant reprogramming the panel from scratch. Then there was SkyRoute (which also involved another field chip change). When you have committed to a product and have installed hundreds it burns your butt to have to "fix" their mistakes at YOUR expense. I know of several Dealers that will NEVER install another DSC panel. Personally I like their latest version of the PC-1864 and I'm glad they went back to the traditional manual format instead of that "kludge" of a fold out monstrosity some idiot dreamed up when they first released it...

Bob LaLonde has some kind of personal issue with DMP, not sure what it is, but I've never had a problem with them. I am one of 4 DMP dealers in a 10 mile radius of my office, one dealer is very big, the other is like me a little guy who cares. I've known both companies for 20+ years and we each help either out when needed. In fact I have a pre-nup with one of them that if something happens to me, he has right of first refusal if she want to sell out. My other buddy has 2nd option...so I have backups for everything even myself :-)

Any reputable dealer would have a plan to take care of his clients if something happens...doesn't much matter with the big guys because they're not "real" people anyway.

Personally, I see this as the only shortcoming in using a small company...but if they have a backup plan...no problem.

Well I suppose credit card fraud is personal, but hey. Its atleast partly my own fault for trusting that Dave Sharp would honor his word and credit the charge on my credit card like he said he would and pick up the materials he sent me that I didn't order. I called him. He said he would make it right. He didn't. I guess I should have assumed he was dishonest or woud blow me off from the start, and just had the charge reversed myself instead of waiting until it was too late. My bad. Notice how I have absolutely no fear about saying this publicly? That's because I documented it and saved it. The statute of limitations on it has expired by now I am sure, but it does not change it. I did say I thought their panels were ok.

Good plan. I have something like that with one of my competitors. I didn't think any other small dealers thought about things like that. I got my DMP panel clients from a small dealer who didn't when he died.

LOL.

Changing providers if you become dissatisfied can be an issue with any size company.

Are you speaking about the purchase of the DMP bible to become a dealer? I wasn't real happy with that either if that's what you're talking about. My dealer ship had lapsed for a year due to illness and I had to re-up, kinda as a newbie so buying the bible (which I could have written having been a dealer for 15 years) was kinda dumb...but hey whaddya gonna do.

Hows the new house and office doing? I gotta stop by one of these days.

"Crash Gordon" wrote in message news:48faa767$0$48216$ snipped-for-privacy@news.qwest.net...

Actually I did not order the DMP bible, and I was never told I had to. I was only signing on as a servicing not installing dealer, and I already had a complete set of manuals from two other sources. I was told I could download all of the manuals I needed in the future. I had gone through several rounds where I had been told I was setup, and then I would call to order something only to be told I couldn't. Ultimately I got Dave on the phone and he told me I needed to order something on a credit card before they could do the final step to get me setup. I let him talk me into buying a Prox Demo keypad. I didn't want it or need it, but it was the easiest way to get going. I never used it for anything, and I think it was one of the things I threw away when I moved the office into the new warehouse by my house. We never talked about several hundred dollars for manuals I already had. I did not order them, and we never even talked about them. When I called him back he said he would pick them up at my office and credit me the charge. That never happened. That was also the last time I heard from Dave Sharp. He was always too busy and never returned my calls after that. I was busy and I let it go too long to take it to my credit card company. I have never purchased so much as a switch from them since. If I can't justify changing out a DMP product, I go underground to get my parts. I am afraid to give DMP my credit card number after that, and I long since canceled that card.

The new house is great. Someday when I'm to crippled to fish all day in tournaments I may get some landscaping done. The office warehouse is still in a major state of flux. Between work, family, and fishing The office part is still only half done. My office and the file room and that's it, and really only the file room is 100% complete.

Yes, you need to get out this way sometime. We can pretend to go fishing and spend the day talking about all the headaches of running an alarm company. LOL. Actually when I have had some time. I have been teaching myself to MIG weld aluminum. Right now about I'm halfway through repairing a wrecked aluminum bass boat. It looks like crap, but it will be tough as an aluminum boat can be when I am done. Actually, I plan to put a jet outboard on it and use it for my backwater brush buster and shallow water runner so its looks aren't all that important. Just how well it will hold up when I find a rock in the middle of some overgrown backwater channel. Wanna go for a boat ride...... Bwahahahahahaha!

Bob

Yikes!

Well if it goes fast enough you don't have to worry about any holes in it right?

Yah know...I've never really gone fishing for bass, or much of anything else out here in AZ.

Give a man a fish and he will have food for one day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in his boat drinking beer all day.

He's really Jason .......... the goalie masked bass boat killer!