Window Foil

Jim Rojas

Roland Moore wrote:

Window foiling is a dead art I am afraid. I don't know any parts houses that even stock the stuff necessary to do it anymore. Things like foil take of blocks, shim brass, foil protector varnish, camel hair brushes, etc. don't live there anymore. You should have been around in the 70's. You could foil all you wanted back then, except in the winter or any cold rainy day when the windows started to sweat. I think using foil now makes you look like an eccentric, or worse. As a practical matter almost any GBD can cover more square feet of glass than window foil on a dollar per dollar basis. And what about service calls for broken foil? That is a real PITA to deal with. Better bring your foil splicing tool. I might be talked into repairing a foiled window, just for giggles, to see if I could still do it (solder foil without burning it). I might even do one from scratch, you know, if the guy was old and had a dinosaur system and a bunch of other foiled windows, and I felt sorry for him, and otherwise wasn't too busy that day for some reason. Foil should NOT be a part of normal window protection technology anymore. And how much should you charge? The cost of one time machine with a lifetime maintenance contract. Just mentioning the words 'Window Bug Glass Break Detector' should get you beheaded.

Yes, I am sure it's sold on line. When I say parts houses I mean local ADI, Tri-Ed type parts houses. I haven't seen Window Foil there for years. I don't think the newer parts guys would even know what it is anymore. Now, get back to the tar pit with the mastodons and saber toothed cats, where you and the other window foilers belong.

I know one customer who still has window foil on all windows. When I took the account over 3 years ago, I tried to get him to use another product. He would not. He told me he likes it because from the street, people can tell he has an alarm system or they may think he does. I kind of agree... so, I keep a roll of it around just in case I have a problem.. But when I took the account over, I made sure the polyurethane over the foil was in good shape. Since then, I have given the system another coat just to be on the safe side.

So far so good. My basement windows which I just installed in the fall, all have window foil on it as well. I guess some people may not like it...It might take too long, but I think it's something that, if well taken care of, it can actually be a really good protection tool for any alarm system....

I agree that foiling is a dead art, and rightly so. No one used foil because it was so great; we used it because foil and screens (and maybe lacing) were the only ways to protect windows back then.

Nothing would make an installer's heart sink like rolling up to a job and seeing a bunch of steel casement windows that needed foiling. Many of us wished the salesman would die a slow painful death for selling jobs like that.

Properly installed foil worked all right when new, but after the window washers beat on it a few times, problems started. Self-adhesive foil blocks dried up and fell off the window. Crossovers got ripped loose. Sometimes, the foil was on a day circuit, sometimes you didn't find out about the problem until closing time.

By the way, it isn't necessary to use foil splicing tools. The corner of a razor blade works much better. Just punch about ten holes in each side that you can see daylight through. And I've never had to solder foil in my life, and I've foiled tons of windows.

I think the deterrent value of foil today is pretty much zero. It's so rare, today's burglars probably don't even know what it is, assuming they even care. It's like expecting today's stereo thief to recognize a reel-to-reel tape deck.

If it's on your own office window, fine, but I'd never even consider supporting foil at a customer's location.

- badenov

Using window foil means that you have to know the local glass man too. Whenever he finishes his job, yours starts. If he thinks he can squeeze it in before 5 PM, you know it'll be 6 PM or later before you're finished. Even on new jobs you had to wait until the end of the day to apply the varnish in high customer traffic areas, just so it wouldn't get screwed up. There were always certain window cleaners who would knock off at least one foil take off block every time they cleaned. There isn't much I miss about window foil. I especially don't miss dragging a long wire around a building to find where the open is when all the windows, maybe 15 or 20, are on one zone. It is good to know that when a GBD trips during a break in, that when the glass compnay rolls out in the middle of the night, you'll be sleeping until morning.

You're joking right? Foiling is a lost art for very good reasons. 1. Technology has advanced. 2. Most Suppliers don't have foil anymore since Brooklyn Foil went out of business. 3. Headaches Headaches Headaches.

1. There is no 4 5.Window washers.

My consensus is usually this, if the customer that we takeover has foil and its in good condition we leave it. If it starts causing a problem its gone and replaced with Sentrol 5150's or an acoustic glassbreak.

Dont get me wrong. I only have foil on my basment windows..All my window in my house are new and I wouldnt put foil on them. But if I have the time, and someone wants it, I personaly dont mind doing it. And the customer I did the other day did not have tons of windows... so it was not that bad..

I remember as a kid, I would take my nails and scrape the pretty shinny material on the window at the drug store... Back then, I didnt know what that stuff was.. I do now ;o)

material on the window at the drug store... Back then, I didnt >know what that stuff was.. I do now ;o)

Did they beat the devil out of you?

That was a nice stroll down memory lane.

Coming from the time when there were no "foil blocks" and there were only brass takeoffs and soldering, I find it amusing to see all the negative things that everyone finds about foiling. Not that they aren't true. But the amusing part is .... that eveyone (most/many) has been brain washed into thinking that glass break detectors are just as good as foil. And some people (much younger, of course) actually think that glass break detectors are BETTER than foil.

Not that I don't use glass breaks, but at least I provide for the necessary redundancy that those who don't even *think* about the short coming of glass break detectors, don't provide to their clients. I see it all the time. That big gaping hole in the detection, in most commercial installations nowdays.

And not surprisingly, no one has mentioned it in this thread either.

Coming from the time when there were no "foil blocks" and there were only brass takeoffs and soldering, I find it amusing to see all the negative things that everyone finds about foiling. Not that they aren't true. But the amusing part is .... that eveyone (most/many) has been brain washed into thinking that glass break detectors are just as good as foil. And some people (much younger, of course) actually think that glass break detectors are BETTER than foil.

Not that I don't use glass breaks, but at least I provide for the necessary redundancy that those who don't even *think* about the short coming of glass break detectors, don't provide to their clients. I see it all the time. That big gaping hole in the detection, in most commercial installations nowdays.

And not surprisingly, no one has mentioned it in this thread either.

Take your ancient "Brain-Dead" Foil and "Stick it" on something more useless like your #$@! I'm not 'much younger"; and just like foil, its all about installing PROPERLY! I bet you even put glassbreaks on a 24 hour interior zone cause that's what you used to do with foil!

what you used to do with foil!

I think they called it a "Day Zone" back then. Meaning disarmed = buzz on fault; Armed = alarm on fault.

curses, foiled again!

I'm not sure if you're addressing me in your post or not but I DO think foil is the better type of glass break detection. I don't use it anymore, because it's labor intensive, considering the alternative methods. I DO service the remaining foil installations that I've done though the years if they can be salvaged. I purchased a dozen rolls of foil before Brooklyn Foil Co closed down, along with all the accessories. The perisable stuff, ( foil and blocks) are in my freezer. I've got more than enough to last for however long I'll need it.

What I was alluding to in my previous post is that the use of glass break detectors has evolved into such common use and what has been lost in the transition is that typically the people who use them now days, consider them just as secure as window foil ..... or don't even think or know about the short coming of them. There isn't any way to supervise a glass break detector. There are thousands of glass break detectors out there, maybe millions and no one has any idea if they are going to work when the time comes. No one even considers that and therefore most never back them up with a motion detector or some other interior trap.

And of course the customers are not told about this and are sitting there, fat and happy that they've got such a great secure alarm system and they don't have that "ugly silver foily stuff" on their windows.

Properly installed window foil is still the most secure way to detect glass breakage.

Yes it was a Day zone, but it rarely did what it was supposed to do. More often than not, when the customer would hear the buzz, either they didn't remember what it meant and would silence it or they knew what it meant and they would silence it. But either way, they still wouldn't call you until they were ready to close and couldn't arm the system. Then it was your fault because you couldn't get there until tomorrow. (sigh)

You for to add the following, and the only way to "really test" the Glass Break Detectors is to pick up a brick and throw it thru the window.

You've got that backwards. It's:

"Foiled! Curses again!"