Suggestions for (Low) Temperature and Water alarms

Winland Electronics makes an environmental alert system called EnviroAlert that will do what you want . I sell their products online. Here's a link to their website. My URL is in my tag line below.

DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine (the one RLB posted) - you will need to program & wire it in it in the panel correctly. I usually program them as Aux response zones in DMP panels...you'll eat up 2 zones one for hi temp one for low.

You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the loops if using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common.

Quick question about DMP (you'll catch on to the reason). Are the "common" zone terminals at the same potential as the negative aux power? If this is the case, then you'll only need four conductors to hook up high and low temps.

Frank Olson

I believe so,,,except for zones 9 & 10 (two 12v fire zones)...and any expansion card zones, or expansion keypad zones...so I'd not do it with 4 conds.

| > You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the loops if | > using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common. | | | Quick question about DMP (you'll catch on to the reason). Are the | "common" zone terminals at the same potential as the negative aux power? | If this is the case, then you'll only need four conductors to hook up | high and low temps. | | Frank Olson |

I used to do high and low temp using one zone. I set up an EOL supervised

24-hour zone. Low temperature would open the circuit and high temperature would short the resistor. At the keypad the zone would display "TEMP ALARM". At the CS we'd configure the BOLD data for that zone so that an "alarm" meant high temperature and a "trouble" meant low temperature.

yah you could do that..but i like to do stuff simple...easy to see/service/figure out 5 years later.

I agree. That's another reason I leave manuals and drawings inside the panel.

Since most of my wire is 4-conductor and I can't think of any reason for a high temp sensor (I already have 14 wired smokes in the house and 1 heat detector in the garage) shouldn't I just consider having one zone using +/- and the two wires for the cold sensor?

Also, any recommendations on a good water/flood sensor for the basement?

Thanks

That'll work fine.

Side note: Just in case you ever need it, there is a way to monitor two nearby powered devices using a single, 4-wire cable. Most alarm and home automation control panels use the common negative for one side of the zone (sensing circuit) wiring.

Most 4-wire alarm cable is red, black, yellow and green. Connect +12VDC from to the red wire and -12VDC to the black. At one sensor connect an EOL resistor between the negative (-12VDC) terminal and the (C) alarm output terminal. Attach the yellow wire to the (NC) alarm output terminal.

Run a short piece of 4-conductor cable between the first and second detector. Parallel the (+) and (-) wires. Again bridge and EOL resistor between the (-12VDC) and the (C) terminal. Connect the green wire to the (NC) terminal.

Back at the panel, connect the red and black to (+) and (-) 12VDC. Connect the yellow to one zone and the green to another zone. You now have two supervised circuits running on a single 4-conductor cable.

I've done this occasionally when we needed to add a second motion or glass break detector on the opposite side of the wall where an existing one was already installed. The technique can be slightly modified to provide a supervised tamper circuit on a powered device or to monitor two separate outputs (like hot and cold temperature, for example) on one sensor.

Winland electronics also make water leak / flood detectors called "WaterBug Alerts". I've used them in numerous locations, including under floor wireways in computer rooms, under carpets in residences, next to sump pumps to detect failures, etc. I've also sold them to waste water treatment facilities around the country. They're installed in pumping stations to warn of high waste water levels. Combined with a voice/pager dialer, they make an inexpensive backup to the elaborate (expensive) pump monitoring systems.

Here's a link to the manufacturer. You can find pricing on my website if that's of interest.

OK, based on the feedback so far, I am trying to decide between the following choices. Can you advise on my thought process?

FLOOD MONITORING A. The "gold standard" appears to be a combination of the Sentrol 5501-M monitor and the separate surface mount sensor 5515-G.

Pros: Seems to be higher end (and maybe more reliable??) Allows for up to 4 detectors Cons: Price (about $50 for the controller and $20 for each sensor) Requires power (lithium batteries)

B. GRI 2800 Water switch

Pros: Cheap ($15) 2-wire, no power requirement

Cons: Don't know but is it as reliable???

----> I am tending to option "B" unless there are reliability issues with

----> the cheaper sensor.

LOW TEMPERATURE: A. Winland MTA-1

Pros: Seems to be standard 'workhouse' Adjustable low and high temperature sensors No power requirement (though requires 3 wires if you use both)

Cons: Bigger/more intrusive than a fixed temperature sensor Also, more expensive ($40)

B. Winland TA-40 Pros: Cheap ($15) Much less intrusive and thus more easily hideable No power requirement/2 wires only

Cons: Not adjustable (fixed at 39 deg +/- 5.4 deg) Low temperature only (but ok for me since I don't need high temp)

----> Tougher decision here. Price is not really an issue nor is the high

----> temperature feature. I am really torn between the smaller

----> profile of the TA-40 vs. the adjustability of the MTA-1. My gut

----> would be to go first with the TA-40 and then only "upgrade" to

----> the MTA-1 (or even to a higher end digital one) if I find that I

----> need more adjustability.

Any comments > DMP doesn't need a special model of temp sensor, the Winland is fine (the

I've used them all...no problems with any of them. Although these days I prefer the adjustable digital version of the temp sensor (requires power), but the mechanical one is fine.

| > You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the loops if | > using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common. | >

| >

| >

btw, do you know how to program a 200?

|| > You'll need 5 conductors... +/- power, and three conductors for the | loops if || > using both the high and low temp...one high, one low, one common. || >

|| >

|| >

Mostly -- I have the RemoteLink software and ICOM internet interface which allows me to program from a PC (and is a lot easier I imagine than trying to do it from a DMP keypad).

That being said, I am sure that I will have some questions with some of the settings since my system currently only has fire/motion/window/door contacts and no environmental sensors, so I don't have any good direct examples of how to set those up.

Thanks for ask> btw, do you know how to program a 200?

A homeowner with RemoteLink...I'm impressed.

DMP is really easy either way. If you need help lemme know.

R.

| >

|

OK, after a couple of months delay, I am now ready to install both temperature and water sensors to my DMP200 alarm system.

I intend to program it using RemoteLink but am a bit unsure exactly what values to choose since I don't have any examples of environmental sensors (I only have fire/smoke and burgular type zones).

Can someone review my choices and let me know what I am doing right or wrong? (thanks)

Note the fields are based upon the field names in the RemoteLink application.

Zone Number: Zone Name: Type: Auxiliary2? Supervisory? (which is more appropriate?) (Choices are: blank, night, day, exit, fire, panic, emergency, supervisory, auxiliary1, fire verify, arming)

Note: According to the manual definition, "Supervisory" seems like the best match, but someone earlier on the thread mentioned "Aux." If I do use "Aux", then I'm thinking that Aux2 may be better than Aux1 since you can set the "Zone Retard Delay Time" to avoid momentary transients setting it off.

Partition: 1 Area: - (Choices are: Bedrooms, Interior, Perimeter, -)

If using "Supervisory", my programming GUESSES are as follows: DO Message: Grayed-out Fire Bell Output: 0 DO Output Action: Grayed-out DO Message: Grayed-out DS Output: Grayed-out DO Output Action: Grayed-out AO Message: Trouble AO Output Action: Steady AS Message: Alarm AS Output: 0 AS Output Action: Steady

If using "Auxiliary", my programming GUESSES are as follows: DO Message: None DO Output: 0 DO Output Action: None DO Message: None DS Output: 0 DO Output Action: None AO Message: Trouble AO Output Action: Steady AS Message: Alarm AS Output: 0 AS Output Action: Steady

Prewarn Keypads: Grayed-out Entry Delay Number: Grayed-out

Swinger Bypass: no-check Retard: no-check Fast Response: no-check Cross Zone: no-check Priority ZOne: no-check

Wireless: no-check

Any comments and help on the above are more than welcome...

Welp here's how I did a Wine Temp Sensor with an XR200.

Zone Name - Wine Temp Type - Aux1 Partition - 1 Area - Perimeter

DO Message - Alarm DO Output - 0 DO Output Action - None DS Message - Trouble DS Output - None DS Output Action - Steady AO Message - Alarm AO Output - 0 AO Output Action - Steady AS Message - Trouble AS Output - 0 AS Output Action - Steady

The output stuff is meaningless, their for controlling relays.

Supervisory may work for you too, but it won't clear until the room/refrig goes back to normal temp...which may be annoying.

I've done these several different ways...mostly by experimenting :-)

"blueman" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com... | "Crash Gordon" writes: | > A homeowner with RemoteLink...I'm impressed. | >

| > DMP is really easy either way. | > If you need help lemme know. | >

| > R. | >

| OK, after a couple of months delay, I am now ready to install both | temperature and water sensors to my DMP200 alarm system. | | I intend to program it using RemoteLink but am a bit unsure exactly | what values to choose since I don't have any examples of environmental | sensors (I only have fire/smoke and burgular type zones). | | Can someone review my choices and let me know what I am doing right or | wrong? (thanks) | | Note the fields are based upon the field names in the RemoteLink | application. | | | Zone Number: | Zone Name: | Type: Auxiliary2? Supervisory? (which is more appropriate?) | (Choices are: blank, night, day, exit, fire, panic, emergency, | supervisory, auxiliary1, fire verify, arming) | | Note: According to the manual definition, "Supervisory" seems | like the best match, but someone earlier on the thread | mentioned "Aux." If I do use "Aux", then I'm thinking that | Aux2 may be better than Aux1 since you can set the "Zone | Retard Delay Time" to avoid momentary transients setting it | off. | | Partition: 1 | Area: - | (Choices are: Bedrooms, Interior, Perimeter, -) | | | If using "Supervisory", my programming GUESSES are as follows: | DO Message: Grayed-out | Fire Bell Output: 0 | DO Output Action: Grayed-out | DO Message: Grayed-out | DS Output: Grayed-out | DO Output Action: Grayed-out | AO Message: Trouble | AO Output Action: Steady | AS Message: Alarm | AS Output: 0 | AS Output Action: Steady | | If using "Auxiliary", my programming GUESSES are as follows: | DO Message: None | DO Output: 0 | DO Output Action: None | DO Message: None | DS Output: 0 | DO Output Action: None | AO Message: Trouble | AO Output Action: Steady | AS Message: Alarm | AS Output: 0 | AS Output Action: Steady | | | Prewarn Keypads: Grayed-out | Entry Delay Number: Grayed-out | | Swinger Bypass: no-check | Retard: no-check | Fast Response: no-check | Cross Zone: no-check | Priority ZOne: no-check | | Wireless: no-check | | | Any comments and help on the above are more than welcome...

Have you ever tried Aux2? It seems that Aux2 has the "feature" of not alarming immediately, but instead waiting until "Zone Retard Delay Time" which might avoid problems with momentary transients (e.g, with a water sensor if some water splashes onto it or something).

My alarm also offers the option of "-". What does that mean? Also, in your setup is it really irrelevant what you use for "Area" since your setup for DO/DS is the same as AO/AS?

I'm not sure I understand what "Trouble" means and how it is used here. Isn't the normal, untriggered condition "DS/AS" -- if so why do you want to signal a "Trouble" condition when the circuit is shorted (appropriately). Or does DS mean that there is no series resistor and the circuit is fully shorted?

If "AO Output" and "AO Output Action" refer to the relay status, how does one specify when and whether the alarm itself is triggered?

Isn't that a "feature"? Don't you want to know that there still is a problem until it is corrected?

Thanks

| > Zone Name - Wine Temp | > Type - Aux1 | | Have you ever tried Aux2? | It seems that Aux2 has the "feature" of not alarming immediately, but | instead waiting until "Zone Retard Delay Time" which might avoid | problems with momentary transients (e.g, with a water sensor if some | water splashes onto it or something).

I have, but I don't remember the circumstances or the result :-)...I've been using dmp for 12 years so I've probably messed with every feature.

| | > Partition - 1 | > Area - Perimeter | | My alarm also offers the option of "-". What does that mean? | Also, in your setup is it really irrelevant what you use for "Area" | since your setup for DO/DS is the same as AO/AS?

- means nothing is in that entry.

| | >

| > DO Message - Alarm | > DO Output - 0 | > DO Output Action - None | > DS Message - Trouble | | I'm not sure I understand what "Trouble" means and how it is used here. | Isn't the normal, untriggered condition "DS/AS" -- if so why do you | want to signal a "Trouble" condition when the circuit is shorted | (appropriately).

I just want a trouble sounder, not the siren...and I don't want to dispatch PD, I want CS to follow special instructions for a trouble on this zone.

| Or does DS mean that there is no series resistor and the circuit is | fully shorted? | | | > DS Output - None | > DS Output Action - Steady | > AO Message - Alarm | > AO Output - 0 | > AO Output Action - Steady | > AS Message - Trouble | > AS Output - 0 | > AS Output Action - Steady | >

| > The output stuff is meaningless, their for controlling relays. | | If "AO Output" and "AO Output Action" refer to the relay status, how | does one specify when and whether the alarm itself is triggered? | | > Supervisory may work for you too, but it won't clear until the room/refrig | > goes back to normal temp...which may be annoying. | | Isn't that a "feature"? Don't you want to know that there still is a | problem until it is corrected?

Possibly, but it would be really annoying for the homeowner to have to completely dry up all the water or wait for the refrig to cool down before they could shut up the sounder. In some situations yes...like maybe a commercial freezer. | | Thanks | | >

| > I've done these several different ways...mostly by experimenting :-) | >