NFPA 72 test

The body of the standard, the "shall" language, is about 100 pages. Add a tab to each chapter. 1-11, and review a chapter each day before your test.

If it's a closed-book test, I don't think that they will ask anything too difficult.

Where are you located?

The test you are talking about is probably a local requirement. If they don't have sample questions, you're out of luck.

I'm willing to help you as much as I can and I'm not traveling this week, so give me a call at 503-657-8888, 8 a.m. - 5 p.m. pacific time.

Good luck,

Mike

-- Michael B. Baker, SET Michael Baker & Associates, Inc. PO Box 737 Gladstone, OR 97027-0737

503-657-8888 v 503-655-1014 f ET News(r)

The simplest solution may be to sub out the work on this project while you prepare for the test. If you don't have a copy of NFPA72, you can order it online in PDF format. I have it on my PC in Sarasota but not on the machine I'm using at the moment.

Following is a link to order the code:

There's also a code handbook which you might want to order: Best of luck.

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: I have ordered a copy of NFPA72 and it should be here tomorrow, however it is 235 pages and this seems like a monumental task to learn everything in this book in just perhaps a week. Now I'm certain that I can deal with circuits etc. but in service you don't get involved with heights, placement, applications etc. You do repairs and replacement. Basically you restore what is already there. I have been doing this for years and I feel that when it comes to troubleshooting and repairing things, I'm a good technician, but as far as knowing all the other rules and remembering them all, I don't know.

GET SOME TRAINING, EDUCATION, AND INSTRUCTION! Just because you are handy, and have some limited knowledge in the Security Field doesn't mean you "know" zip about Fire! I'm a NY State Instructor and I tell my Students that Security is "Psychology of the Perp and Artistry of the Installer". Fire Is "Science and Physiolgy" Mixed with "Bookwork Code Knowledge" They're NOT the SAME. You need to understand the theory and the requirements of not only the equipment but the Code Requirements of the various jurisdictions you work in whether they be Local, Federal or National: the Legal, Liability and Safety Issues that affect what you're doing, Your responsibilities to the Customer and His responsibilities- all this and more. A DIY'er may read a book from Home Depot, successfully Install a duplex receptacle, and It may even work- that doesn't mean he installed it safely enough that it won't cause harm to Life and Property! Same goes for Fire. Education is a Must- Here in NY even with 60 Hrs of training and Certification, only 16 Hours are FIRE! To me, thats not enough to qualify you to install, maintain or service Fire Systems even if you pass the 60Hr/4week course and take the "Walk-in" Alarm License Test at the next opportunity! THERE IS A LEARNING CURVE! At oue School, we've been thru this route- now that 15+ years have passed since NY instituted a mandatory license-we've pretty much seen all the "Alarm Dino's" that needed to get up to speed- now it's just mainly 'newbies", employees who want to strike out on their own AND MASTER ELECTRICIANS who think that they somehow qualify as "FIRE EXPERT" because they pull wire and lay pipe! Please do yourself a service and seek out the Local Training Center who can help to educate you before you make a serious mistake!

(To all my co-installers and instructors-Thanks for letting me rant!)

"up till now have only "serviced" existing fire alarm equipment. We have worked on many different types and are familiar with most electrical configuratuions".

"I have ordered a copy of NFPA72 and it should be here tomorrow".

First of all, anyone who services fire alarms and doesn't have the latest edition of NFPA 72 and NFPA 101, should not be working on fire alarms. NFPA 72 & 101 are the "Bibles", (also know as Life Safety Standards) we have to work with, along with many other requirements for fire alarms. Your local fire inspector is only trying to protect the public from unknowing and unexperienced fire alarm contractors. And, from your post, I suspect you're one of them.

My recommendation is to keep to your video systems until you have the knowledge and experience to properly maintain, install and service fire alarm systems. It's not something you will learn overnight or in a couple of weeks. The test you speak of is most likely the easy part.

BTW...Do you have the proper amounts of insurance to work on fire alarm systems?

Norm Mugford Chairman Florida Department of Business & Professional Regulation Electrical Contractors Licensing Board

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

I'm in agreement with Mike Sokoly. Servicing a fire alarm system goes beyond simple replacement of detectors and components. Does the fire alarm system you're servicing have sufficient stand by capacity in the event of a power failure? What are the requirements for this in the different jurisdictions you work in? When you're replacing a pull station, is it at the correct height. What about smoke detectors? Are they correctly spaced? Installed to the manufacturer's specifications? *Cross-listed* to the control? Fire alarm is *life safety*. You can't take it lightly! In Canada, ULC provides the Installation Standard (CAN524), the Verification Standard (CAN537), and the Testing Standard (CAN536). You have to be familiar with all of these to properly service a fire alarm system. Study NFPA 72, NFPA 101, and talk to Michael Baker. Do yourself (and your customers) a bigger service by becoming fully conversant with local codes and ordinances relating to fire alarm as well as NFPA 72 and 101.

In my experience, servicing fire alarms also requires additional insurance riders (another poster mentioned this). In many instances you're also required to pull a permit if you're doing any work on one.

Good Luck!!

Frank Olson

Nuf Said Norm! The individual has been "servicing" fire alarms and JUST NOW decides to purchase NFPA 72? Misses the Point- in addition to your suggestions he should have had NFPA 70, ADA, BOCA, IBC, Local Code Books, Sprinkler and HVAC Codes, and more. Reading well does not make you qualified. I suspect that he may not even know about E&O insurance-most guys I come across don't! I tell my students that it's a MINUMUM 6 months on the job before you even Graduate from the "PIPE& WIRE DEGREE". Mike Sokoly

I'm not sure why it was embarrassing to have to tell your customer about the requirements imposed on you by the City Fire Dept., it might become so if you fail the test repeatedly, but most commercial customers seem to be fairly sympathetic and understanding when it comes to dealing with City Hall.

Read the book, take the test, if you fail it the first time at least you will have an idea of what questions will be asked the next time., if you fail it a second time or third time then maybe you should consider some extra training or courses.

If it really is critical to your financial future then you could sub the work out, even if it means taking a loss on the job.-

Most of the other comments regarding getting up to speed on the requirements of Fire Alarms is correct, as failing to adhere to the local and national codes could also be financially lethal to your company

Doug L

What!!! Bass has sold *thousands* of fire alarms systems and thrives on the thought that any primate with limited tool skills can install a fire alarm system after a brief "how to" from his vast fire alarm experience and all this in an hour or two over the phone. According to Bass, why would anyone need to know so much about a fire alarm installations. He makes it sound so simple.

You mean if the place burns down the insurance company might not cover it? I always wondered about his lack of info on required stamped certified plans, permits, inspections (both electrical and fire), systems requiring central station service, compatability issues, data sheets, proper wire gauges, NAC power supplies, battery calcs. etc. Maybe that costs extra. And then again, that would be designing a system and would require him to have a license. At that I guess it would be considered a half-bASSED sale.

That is why the manufacturers have stopped warranting his resale equipment to DIYers. They were receiving to much back as "bad out of box" and then found out it was being sold to DIYers. They stopped his free shipping and now he has to warranty the equipment he sells himself.

I agree wih mike just servicing a fire system is not enough knowledge to be even touching them . NFPA 72 is pretty clear what is concidered proper training to work on Fire systems and with Pa. now following ICC and NFPA the individual doing what he is doing would not be permitted to service a system. Several dealers have found out the hard way up here they can no longer service systems. Let alaone the liabiltys of not being properly trained. and doing servicng and something go wrong.

I wouldn't consider a large number of the technicians currently certified through ASTTBC "properly trained" either. I think it's a matter for the employer to sponsor an environment where upgrading and continuing education is not only encouraged, but rewarded. For independent dealers, one of the better introductions to the field is offered through the FireLite course. Yes, it's biased towards their products, but I think you'll find a number of systems out there have many features in common.

I've been reviewing the information regarding NICET and can't find much in the way of benefit over the current training provided through ASTTBC and BCIT. I'd like to see more in the way of "hands on" courses in troubleshooting, proper installation, and testing being offered. There currently isn't anything like this available (at least in BC).

If you're going to properly service a fire alarm system, you have to start with the specific installation manual. If you've never worked on the system before, you have to make certain that all the wiring is routed into the can and terminated correctly. In most cases the manufacturer has laid this out, along with a detailed list of smoke detectors that are compatible with the control and the all important battery calculation. Of course the manual won't address specific code issues which the examination "Captain Video" is required to undertake will probably try to address. If the test is not "open book", then the questions should focus on common acceptable practice and some basic knowledge, not "in-depth" chapter and verse. It won't hurt to study the codes in the local jurisdiction as well. Vancouver (for instance) has it's own building code (called the Vancouver Building Bylaw). There are some unique differences between it and the BC Building Code.

Regards,

Frank

Amen- Out here in NY the State has always "reserved" the possibility of a "Practical" addition to the License Test- but hasn't done it since 1992! It is promising for me to see Local Alarm and Electrical Contractors coming to our Training Center or sending their employees. I confess I've been behind in implementing some sort of "Hands-On Practical" Training Classes in Security and Fire -Like we have for Apprentice and Master Electricians- BUT NOW I'm just waiting for State Ed. Dept. to not muck up the process and get us approval- I've got 40+ Guys waiting! For independent dealers, one of the

John Maccone is a top notch guy for Training at Firelite- Chirs Bartholemew at GE- Mike Boyden at Silent Knight - Bill Marrera at Ademco- All of the top Manufacturers give some good, basic, training. If you're near any- the ADI EXPO's offer Top-notch Seminars as well as Eastern Distributing, Tri-ED, And Elcor/Supply Dog!

I'm somewhat biased in agreement with others that post here- NICET reminds me of UL- scamming for dollars- driven by politics. i have no need for supporting them with an endorsment for them to start a practical trainig program.

Bob Worthless is living proof of the premise. :^)

Ran into perfect example today of untrained indivdual thinks he can install fire alarms becuse he has serviced a few had 4208U zone boards which do not support 2 wire smokes on an Ademco vista 32FB instead of the 4209U that are required had zones programed wrong did not have resistors in right place. 3 pull stations were missed when wiring was installed etc etc etc.

2 of 3 buisnesses went 1 year with out fire protection becuse the individual thought he could easily expand a system and did not have a clue.

I wouldn't blame the individual as much as the company that employed him. Someone needs to supply the training not just hand out boards and work orders. Also who is overseeing the testing of the work? Somehow I do not think that system had been properly tested though I am sure it is now. ;-)

Say hi to Al next time you see him.

SP

.

The guy who did the work owns he company so theres no excuse. he did not know the product line and had no buisnes working with it till he did.

He should be suspended by his balls, sprayed with whipping cream and lowered into a cage of hungry cats.

Regards,

Frank