Notifier

Maybe they didn't take you to the show for a reason. You just have a problem with ADI and their customers, don't you?

I have always had the impression you're a f****ng elitist because you deal mainly with Bosch crap. I've always used bulletproof Silent Knight dialers, sold at ADI.

Your attitude about dealers who don't install anything except Bosch, or DMP is wearing thin... similarly to your choices for video.. You think your way is the only way -- and the rest are somehow inferior for not adopting an all IP solution from Axis, Bosch, IqEnvison.. etc.. Get f***ed. Your elitist attitude is not well received.

Yours Truly, Trunk Slammer

"Milhouse Van Houten" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Yes, I have all the social grqaces but I am not house broken.

I don't have a problem with ADI. They send customers our way when they get special calls from end users. I thank them properly. Some guys at ADI used to work for me many moons ago. I know them all at the local branch. As for ADI customers (other dealers) I talk to them politely too when they call me for help.

I am a bit confused. Is there a regular elitist and then one notch down to f****ng elitist? I could be either I guess. Is it important to know which one I am? If not I'll just assume I am which ever is worse in your eyes. We are a Bosch BCSD so what would be unusual about using Bosch gear? That kind of means by definition I deal mainly with Bosch crap. There is a lot of Bosch crap sold at ADI too. All of the former DS line of motions. DiBos, Divar etc. and nearly all the video line. Access Easy is there too. Are you an elitist if you use Bosch from ADI or just if you're a BCSD. We do both actually so guilty both ways there too. I have only used a little of the SK gear in my time. I don't like fire and SK gave up on burg long ago (except for a proprietary panel that they built for the likes of Smith Alarm.) SK seems okay from what little I have used. I like the Bosch 7024 better because of the upload/download ability and the price. The regular Bosch D2071 and D9068 DACT aren't that hot in my opinion. I think we have even yanked a few and put in other dialers when the spec allowed.

I install Bosch. I have only worked on DMP and removed lots of it. We aren't DMP dealers. You'll have to get another elitist named Petem for the real up to date DMP scoop. I think another regular poster is on repair status with DMP so is a repair status DMP dealer an elitist too?. I know one of the ADI tech support guys used to be the DMP tech rep. Can he be redeemed now that he is at ADI or is it once a DMP elitist, always an elitist? I think the industry is in a transition now and IP based solutions are going to be more common in the future. True, I mention Axis but I never use it however. I have never used Iqenvision or even seen it. I do use BVIP video. It is a bit harder to get to sell that even if you're a BCSD. Not using Bosch or DMP doesn't make one a trunk slammer in my view. There is nothing special about being a dealer for either really. It is merely a function of dollar volume purchases to get and maintain your status. Bosch or DMP couldn't care less if you think of yourself as an elitist or not. They just want the money. If you don't sell you get the boot, period. Being a trunk slammer in my view is a function of attitude, not the product line you happen to sell or not sell. I think it is important to know the products you do sell and why you continue to sell it over some similar product. Do you care about your craft? Do you try to keep up to date with the technology? What helps make a trunk slammer in my view? A guy that's worked a decade in the business and doesn't know how to measure a ground, or inductance; or one that can't tell a resistor from a choke, or can't hook up a loop with two resistors and make it work other than by trial and error. A trunk slammer knows how to call the office to find the number for factory tech support. He won't keep installation manuals, and he'll make the same errors again and again, even when repeating the same task. I see that kind of guy nearly every time I walk into ADI, SGI, Tri-ed, or Richardson's. Moving to IP video will only magnify the problems a trunk slammer faces. Guys will have to know the difference between a token ring and a sonet ring at one end and a MAC address from and IP address at the other. IP video lends itself to larger installations which we do a lot of. That means you get lots of experience on certain aspects of the industry doing a lot of the same sorts of things. I don't think that makes us elitists, but you might. I just like to think about what I do in this industry, and think how I can do it better. If that makes me an elitist that you think is not well received here so be it. Trust me, I can easily live with it from a guy that signs his name as trunk slammer, even in jest.

Yours Truly, Trunk Slammer

Is that like that old bumper sticker "Oil field trash and proud of it"? I am moved.

>

Sheesh..dunno what freekin catagory I'd fit into...Radx, DMP AND Ademco...an elite trunkslammer I guess?? I gotta go make an appointment for therapy now. At least I don't do Napco.

"Roland Moore" wrote in message news:460e1779$0$28110$ snipped-for-privacy@roadrunner.com... | | | "Milhouse Van Houten" wrote in message | news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... | > Roland Moore wrote: | >

| >>Since it is Honeywell I am surprised they don't try to sell it at ADI. | >>

| >

| > Maybe they didn't take you to the show for a reason. | Yes, I have all the social grqaces but I am not house broken. | | >You just have a problem with ADI and their customers, don't you? | I don't have a problem with ADI. They send customers our way when they get | special calls from end users. I thank them properly. Some guys at ADI used | to work for me many moons ago. I know them all at the local branch. As for | ADI customers (other dealers) I talk to them politely too when they call me | for help. | | >

| > I have always had the impression you're a f****ng elitist because you | > deal mainly with Bosch crap. I've always used bulletproof Silent | > Knight dialers, sold at ADI. | I am a bit confused. Is there a regular elitist and then one notch down to | f****ng elitist? I could be either I guess. Is it important to know which | one I am? If not I'll just assume I am which ever is worse in your eyes. We | are a Bosch BCSD so what would be unusual about using Bosch gear? That kind | of means by definition I deal mainly with Bosch crap. There is a lot of | Bosch crap sold at ADI too. All of the former DS line of motions. DiBos, | Divar etc. and nearly all the video line. Access Easy is there too. Are you | an elitist if you use Bosch from ADI or just if you're a BCSD. We do both | actually so guilty both ways there too. | I have only used a little of the SK gear in my time. I don't like fire and | SK gave up on burg long ago (except for a proprietary panel that they built | for the likes of Smith Alarm.) SK seems okay from what little I have used. I | like the Bosch 7024 better because of the upload/download ability and the | price. The regular Bosch D2071 and D9068 DACT aren't that hot in my opinion. | I think we have even yanked a few and put in other dialers when the spec | allowed. | >

| > Your attitude about dealers who don't install anything except Bosch, | > or DMP is wearing thin... similarly to your choices for video.. You | > think your way is the only way -- and the rest are somehow inferior | > for not adopting an all IP solution from Axis, Bosch, IqEnvison.. | > etc.. Get f***ed. Your elitist attitude is not well received. | >

| I install Bosch. I have only worked on DMP and removed lots of it. We aren't | DMP dealers. You'll have to get another elitist named Petem for the real up | to date DMP scoop. I think another regular poster is on repair status with | DMP so is a repair status DMP dealer an elitist too?. I know one of the ADI | tech support guys used to be the DMP tech rep. Can he be redeemed now that | he is at ADI or is it once a DMP elitist, always an elitist? I think the | industry is in a transition now and IP based solutions are going to be more | common in the future. True, I mention Axis but I never use it however. I | have never used Iqenvision or even seen it. I do use BVIP video. It is a bit | harder to get to sell that even if you're a BCSD. Not using Bosch or DMP | doesn't make one a trunk slammer in my view. There is nothing special about | being a dealer for either really. It is merely a function of dollar volume | purchases to get and maintain your status. Bosch or DMP couldn't care less | if you think of yourself as an elitist or not. They just want the money. If | you don't sell you get the boot, period. Being a trunk slammer in my view is | a function of attitude, not the product line you happen to sell or not sell. | I think it is important to know the products you do sell and why you | continue to sell it over some similar product. Do you care about your | craft? Do you try to keep up to date with the technology? What helps make a | trunk slammer in my view? A guy that's worked a decade in the business and | doesn't know how to measure a ground, or inductance; or one that can't tell | a resistor from a choke, or can't hook up a loop with two resistors and make | it work other than by trial and error. A trunk slammer knows how to call the | office to find the number for factory tech support. He won't keep | installation manuals, and he'll make the same errors again and again, even | when repeating the same task. I see that kind of guy nearly every time I | walk into ADI, SGI, Tri-ed, or Richardson's. Moving to IP video will only | magnify the problems a trunk slammer faces. Guys will have to know the | difference between a token ring and a sonet ring at one end and a MAC | address from and IP address at the other. IP video lends itself to larger | installations which we do a lot of. That means you get lots of experience on | certain aspects of the industry doing a lot of the same sorts of things. I | don't think that makes us elitists, but you might. I just like to think | about what I do in this industry, and think how I can do it better. If that | makes me an elitist that you think is not well received here so be it. Trust | me, I can easily live with it from a guy that signs his name as trunk | slammer, even in jest. | >

| Yours Truly, | Trunk Slammer | | Is that like that old bumper sticker "Oil field trash and proud of it"? I am | moved. | | >

| |

Notifier is pretty decent stuff. Unfortunately (in Vancouver) you have to be an authorized distributor to have access to programming on their distributed systems, but for the smaller stuff, it's OK. If you're looking for a fire alarm communicator, I'd stick with SK. If you're looking for a panel that incorporates a communicator (and is expandable) beyond eight zones, I'd suggest having a look at Mircom.

No, that is someone who does it *too* an elitist.

ADI isn't the only one selling Bosch CCTV.

I've installed a fair number of Silent Knight fire alarm control panels. They're simple to work with. Setup was a piece of cake. A lot of my DIY customers also choose Silent Knight. I've never worked on a Bosch control panel though. I guess that makes me an anti-elitist. :^)

Hmm. I never noticed that. It must have worn away completely. :^)

Hehhehheh... :^)

Would that make them all ipelitists or is that term reserved for people who live in Ipolito and/or those who worship Saint Hippolytus?

I think it is that way with all engineered systems fire stuff. It is hard to get any of those product lines. Since a particular brand, like Notifier, may get specified (into new construction jobs especially) it is kind of like the manufacturer is writing a check to the dealer once they give them the product.

We have used that brand before. I liked it for the price especially, but unfortunately in this part of the country there are violent thunderstorms and the Mircoms we installed didn't seem to survive them well. We only used a handful, but never had a Mircom panel make it beyond two years. Talked to other guys and they reported similar issues. One customer (end user) black balled it and said they would not accept it on their jobs due to the high failure rate.

Maybe it wasn't Mircoms fault. It said it used 24 VDC, so I thought hooking up 240 VAC to it would make it ten times as good. To avoid working on a cold panel I think you should try it too, since you're up north. I can tell you it really warms that Mircom panel up. It feels funny because it even makes the screw drivers buzz a little.

Yours Truly, Trunk Slammer

Make one for me too please. I was just told Elite Trunk Slammer won't fit on my business card. I can't stand to be one upped by anyone.

I remember how you thank them - calling them "trunk slammer headquarters".

Screw it...

I am not full of silent contempt for ADI if that is what you are trying to imply. Yes, I tell them they're trunk slammer headquarters straight to their face. Email me if you care to and I'll give you the phone number of the local ADI branch and you can check those facts for yourself. I'll give you the names and numbers of the local SGI and Tri-ed too. There are probably none more acutely aware than the staff working behind the counter at the ADIs of this world that they are trunk slammer headquarters; as they are bombarded daily by technical questions they can't begin to answer. ADI sells parts to alarm companies. Alarm companies install and service alarm parts. ADI needs to know the SKU and the price, and if they have it in stock and not much else. Alarm company staff need to read the installation manuals, not have it read and explained to them over the phone by the counter staff. Most parts houses know the type company they're sell to. They know the difference between companies that buy direct from the manufacturers and work on keeping a knowledgeable staff and ones that don't. Getting to that level doesn't happen over night by sprinkling magic dusk or adopting an elitist attitude. It is certainly not diminished by being thought of as elitist, especially by a self described trunk slammer. Some people have a different name for what you refer to as elitist. I believe it is called professional (elitist) or knowledgeable professional (f****ng elitist).

Isn't that the quote most often used by a trunk slammer when he roasts a piece of gear because he didn't follow (or even read) the installation instructions? Yes screw it; its always someone else's fault.

"Milhouse Van Houten" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

I disagree. I don't know about the branch where you are but there are several guys in my ADI branch who know various systems fairly well. They're not tech support gurus mind you, but they know the product capabilities. They're more klnowledgeable than many at our other distributors.

Hehhehheh. True indeed. Because of Google I get a lot of calls from alarm dealers who think we're the manufacturer or at least a manufacturer's rep. You should hear some of the questions we get. The amazing thing is that these guys don't have the manufacturers' tech support numbers in their Rolodexes.

[Note to those easily offended: The above is not intended as a slam against installers in general. I assume most do have the tech support phone numbers in their Rolodexes.]

Rats! I was hoping that by being an elitist drop shipper I would automatically become an expert at everything.

I always thought the term, trunk slammer, was simply an insult hurled at smaller or newer competitors by people whose only selling point was that they work for a big, old company.

Ask them if they want to transfer to Texas. And if they can speak Spanish (even with a Cuban accent) they're in for life. Just don't tell them no one here eats fried bananas until after they get here.

What's a "Rolodex"?

You are. You still haven't explained how to get a Napco LCD keypad to read: "Attention Burglar!" on the first line and "Go Ahead. Make My Day." on the second. I (along with Bob La Londe, and Jim) would really like to know.

"Trunk Slammer" started off as a reference to any trades person that considers a job "done" when he slams the trunk (back doors) of the his car/truck at the end of it. He's never heard of after sales service and more than likely has a BBB report as bad as yours. Since I first heard it used (when I got into the trade 25 years ago), it's "expanded" to include any trades person that works from his home with a single service vehicle (which is blatantly unfair as many of these guys *are* just starting out, have an excellent business plan, and recognize that good service is "key" to the growth of any successful *service business*).

No chance! I like those guys. You can't have them.

I know at least one of them (an American) likely eats fried bananas. Anyone from this area who deals with them would know who I mean aqnd why. :^)

That puzzled me for a l>

Thank you Roland. That particular piece of technical knowledge has eluded us for months. And to think the answer to it was in my left shirt pocket all along. Dang!!!

The quiet kind of it??

SHHHH

Well I guess we all can only aspire to attaining a certain high level in product quality and capability. ;->

I've been using them for so long now, it's really hard for me to see what all the negativity about them is about. 25/30 years ago, their method of programing was really very logical and worked well for the simple panels back then. What could be simpler then counting in binary? They just didn't project how that style of programing was going to get so cumbersome as the panel options reached into the hundreds. And they also underestimated how many would take so long just to figure out how to open a laptop, much less use one.

I think other than the fact that they're almost bullet proof (1632 on up) it' s not that one will regularly use all the functions and capabilities of the panels, it's just such a confidence thing knowing that no matter what the client asks for or ever ..... asks for, you can do it.

I will say one thing. Once you learn how to program a Napco panel, all the others are like baby talk. It's only a matter of learning the mfg's jargon.