How to replace battery

the homeowner shouldn't do it himself.

Oh REALLY? Ever change a battery on an old DSC Classic Panel? Ever checking the charging voltage? Pretty obvious you haven't.

DSC's charging circuit can be varied in voltage from approximately

How's that for reason #1?

Reason #2?

MOST clients are idiots and will not be able to do it or will do something wrong.

outlets even sell them.

left alone unless they cause a problem. As state,

protecting doors and windows are normally service-free unless

Sure, I LOVE to have homeowners clean their own smoke detectors! I guarantee they didn't listen to the instructions and will BLOW air into the detector instead of SUCKING THE AIR (AND DEBRIS/DUST) OUT.

I sell more smoke detectors that way....... AND I CHARGE A FRIGGIN' SERVICE CALL TOO!

And I'm seriously considering and IDIOT charge, although I will have to remame it.

Perhaps I'll call it the bASS charge!

LOL!!!!

company that you have a battery for disposal. They'll

clipping the terminals.

'Cause you just know a dead battery without terminals starts an electrical fire every 16 seconds in the US.......

Julian

the homeowner shouldn't do it himself.

Nope. Then again, I never installed an old SDSC "Classic" panel.

Well, you're wrong. I used to check the charging voltage on Napco and Moose systems. Every once in a while one of them would be off kilter but that would almost invariably be indicated by other problems.

I usually ask clients who call about replacement batteries how long it's been since the old one was installed. If it's been less than 4 years or so, I ask if there's been an extended power outage. Most of the time they say the battery was installed by the "professional" installer and has never been replaced since. Many times the client says that the system -- and the battery -- have been there for 8, 10 or more years.

Inadequate.

If that is the measure of the typical person who hires you, I can understand your concern. If this newsgroup is any indication of things in general, I'd say the *avarage* DIYer is smarter than the *average* professional installer.

AT any rate, changing out a backup battery is a 2-minute affair. That includes time spent looking for the key to open the cabinet.

Do you always suck or do you also blow from time to time?

OK, sorry. That was rude.

All kidding aside, I'm curious where you learned to "clean" smoke detectors that way. I always open the cover and clean the entire interior with a moist (not wet) cloth. Then I open the sensing chamber and clean the inside with an alcohol swab. I find this is much more effective than using forced air. The smokes will often last much longer between cleanings.

Hmm. Do you write "idiot" in bold print on your stationery?

First of all, my inexperienced friend, the battery isn't "dead" or it would not be necessary to clip the terminals. Anyone with experience in the trade instead of clerking and swapping aliases all day knows that.

Second, even with the terminals clipped off, the electrodes are still reachable. In the unlikely event that something metallic iin the trash were to come into contact with them, a fire could result. It takes less than 10 seconds to wrap a little tape around the battery to completely prevent that. But you wouldn't know that, would you?

In the access world of today (by feature sets and sales volume) it might be Lenel, Software House, and AMAG at the top, and then everyone else after that. Lenel = although an American company, it was the two Russians that ran it until UT bought it. AMAG=Headquarters in England Software House= Another TYCO product just like Kantech and CEM Casi used to be in that group at the top until GE bought them and killed them and Infographic Systems at the same time. By the way we are not a Lenel Dealer, just dealers for the other two. We sell and service a lot of other lines including Kantech. Some of the KT-200 units we have out there are coming up on 2 decades of service. I wouldn't put any Kantech new panels in at new locations (unless was a hard spec) because there are better and cheaper products out there. Most of the over the counter stuff, be it from TOPAZ to Northern Computers has its place, and that is in the dumpster in my opinion, especially old Nothern stuff.

the homeowner shouldn't do it himself.

Figures.

systems. Every once in a while one of them would be

So then do you get your 'customers' to check and adjust the charging voltage? It may not require any special skill, but it certainly requires knowledge and experience.

since the old one was installed. If it's been less

the time they say the battery was installed by the

client says that the system -- and the battery -- have

So you have the cheap, lazy clients who won't change their battery as required. An eight year old battery is of little use - other than as an anchor - and is far past its' servicable life.

It's doubtful that a customer like that would produce any tangible profit UNLESS they're charged FULL PRICE for the battery and the service call. AND any alarm panel that is that old and unmaintained NEEDS an EXPERINCED ALARM TECH to properly service the system. I would never monitor an alarm system that is that badly maintained.

Hey quit looking in the mirror and focus!

your concern. If this newsgroup is any indication of

professional installer.

I don't pick my customers based on their IQ, only their ability to afford my services. The average DIYer may be smarter than you, but certainly not smarter than any professional installer I've ever met. Then again, I've never met you..... Oh, right that doesn't matter - you're not a professional installer. You only run an internet store. Nothing to do with installing or servicing alarms or monitoring Florida customers.

time spent looking for the key to open the cabinet.

And what am I supposed to do about the 1/2 hour to go over the alarm use/features/coverage? If my client wants to have me over to change a battery, move a motion, program a code or have me over for coffee and cake, my hourly rate is the same. More time is wasted going over things over and over again due to the short term attention span of the client. Not to mention, most people's inability to answer a simple question with an answer that matches the question, not an answer to a question that wasn't asked. GOT IT?

Hint: Simple YES or NO.

that way. I always open the cover and clean the entire

clean the inside with an alcohol swab. I find this is

longer between cleanings.

ALL clients with smoke detectors are give the same instructions - use the dust attachment of the vacuum and clean the unit every three months. No disassembly required. If any client was to do that, then the units would function for a longer period of time.

My method is to clean the interior of smokes, but c'mon - who the hell carries alcohol swabs for cleaning the sensing chamber? Another tall story I guess.

And wouldn't cleaning smoke detectors require a service call to the premise? Gee, and I thought you only ran an internet store..... must be the propoganda.....

Sorry it's only a line item charge and has nothing to do with the stationery. I haven't even implemented the damn charge and I've already had my first question about it. Seems the charge is justified though.

Great now you owe me $25.00. I take CASH only BTW. Email me for the snail mail address. Don't forget to put proper postage on the stamp. Oh and seal the envelpe too. Drop it in the mail box is the last step.

be necessary to clip the terminals.

I don't know if I'm more offended by you calling me your friend or inexperienced, but I can guarantee I'm neither.

How exactly do I clerk an alias? You must know, you've been an alias swapper for many years - on this NG and others - so you must have clerked a couple too. I've used two aliases here in the past eleven years. Yes, I've been here that long, albeit with a long absence between then and now

reachable. In the unlikely event that something metallic iin

less than 10 seconds to wrap a little tape around the

OMG you are a MORON! So you want to prevent something that is unlikely to happen and if it did something else could happen. I have more confidence in winning the lottery next week to secure my retirement.

Just to prove you wrong, I'm going to take a recently changed battery, leave the terminals on and try to start a fire. Or I could call the Mythbusters, but the only myth here is your qualifications.

I'll let you know what my results are. At first I'll use the metal only. Then I'll try metal and paper. Then metal, paper and an accelerant, maybe alcohol swabs! And if that doesn't work I'll up the ante to gasoline.

Hey this does sound like a Mythbusters episode. The cell phone blowing up a gas station episode. I'll download it and let their judgement be answer to the question.

Julian

"Roland" a écrit dans le message de news:

At least we do agree on something...NCI stuff is one of the worst stuff I ever saw..a few years back,was at big facility and they were using winpak

told the boss I could open a door if I get access to the com link without them knowing about it..

they didn't believe me,it took me 5 minute to set up my converter and connect my laptop fire up hyper terminal and bypass the door status input and fire up the relay,the door was open and no one saw nothing in there log...

using plain simple ASCII command to control there system was the worst they could do..that with the way they handle site code...

Indeed. I never liked that kind of cheap crap.

I've instructed a few people to do it. It's about the simplest procedure there is, requiring neither skill, knowledge no experience. However, if you find it challenging I can understand your concern.

Actually, these are usually clients who relied for years on their professional installing dealer to maintain the system before dropping the monitoring contract for whatever reason. The low battery warning is often the first indication that the system had not been properly serviced, sometimes for years.

So is an alarm company that doesn't bother to replace a battery for six or eight years until the client finally drops their service.

I'm not surprised that you think that. Fortunately for me, there are lots of end users who get fed up with that kind if trewatment (not to mention that kind of attitude) and go searching the Internet for a new supplier. Just as Bob Campbell has made a good living for years taking over accounts from one particular, well-known alarm company whose services are notoriously bad, I make a nice living helping the people guys like you used to abuse.

These are usually ex-clients of "experienced" alarm techs who have ignored routine service requirements so long that only a good DIYer can save the day. Most of the time when we get a DIYer who has taken over service after a "professional" alarm installer did the initial job, it's because the "professional" dealer either screwed up the installation, failed to service it in a timely manner, charged rip-off prices, failed to respond promptly to alarms or some combination of the above.

BTW, I'm not saying that all or even most alarm dealers do such bad work. I like to believe that this newsgroup is not representative of the industry at large -- that most are actually intelligent, caring people rather than liars and frauds like Olson, Cracker and the Matawan Moron (aka "Group Nutcase") or rip-off artists like a certain ECLA member, his Worthless pal and Jiminex. I suspect most are more like Bob Campbell, Jim Rojas or (and this is one I only recently realized has a heart) Tom "Tank Top" Fowler.

Well then, we finally found something in common. :^)

So you say your customers are stupid but at least they have enough money to buy what you sell? OK.

In your dreams, Bubba.

Not any more. I ran a central station alarm company for 24 years though. We were small so I kept a hand in installation and service even after hiring techs. It was a fun way to make a living but I found something more lucrative that also affords me the freedom to travel extensively, spending several months at a time at my second home in Brazil.

Yup. However, I've spent more years installing and servicing alarms than you've been out of diapers (then again, perhaps that's not saying much).

If he wants you to do all of those things, you probably ought to bid a flat rate rather than gouge him with your hourly rate. If your clients are as stupid as you say they are, I guess you can keep getting away with it though.

It's always the customer's fault, eh?

Oh, that explains why you have so much trouble teaching them over and over and over and over again. Perhaps if you learn to answer their questions properly they won't have so much trouble. Of course, if you taught them better, they might not need to call you back for so many expensive service calls. Hmmm.

Your clients give you the instructions? I thought you said they were all stupid.

Unfortunately, partical matter inside the sensing chamber is never completely dislodged by such a procedure. It will suck out big dust "kittens" from inside the cover but it does nothing to clean the most critical part, which is the sensing chamber.

I always did and my techs always did. It's really no trouble keeping a box of swabs and a small jar of alcohol in the van.

Anything you never thought of must seem so to you.

I think you meant premises. One doesn't service a premise. AT any rate, no. It's easy to do that. Any DIYer can handle it. However, I notice that you weren't even aware of the need. Did you say that you're a "professional" installer? Hmm.

You thought wrong, grasshopper. I've been in this industry many years before there even was an Internet.

The "friend" part is a sarcastic expression. I prefer it to calling you an asshole. As to experience, you've already shown you don't know how to clean a smoke detector or properly dispose of a used alarm battery. I think you've demonstrated your lack of experience sufficiently.

You don't read very well either, do you?

Have you been taking debating lessons from Olson? I understand he's also offering PPSEL lessons, in between aerobatic airliner antics.

Translation: You discovered you're wrong.

We sell smoke detectors to detect fires, even though they may be unlikely to occur in any given location. It's called common sense.

Since that "something else" is a fire, yes.

If what you post here is any indication of your skill as an alarm installer, perhaps that's a good investment plan.

Piece of cake. Shove a piece of wire into the small holes where the terminals used to be. Be sure to hold onto the wire nice and tight while you practice this experiment. You'll have a nice reminder for the next few weeks what a stupid idea it was. After your hand heals from the burns enough to type, be sure and post all about your experience.

Note to everyone else: "Professional driver on closed course. Do NOT try this trick at home."

You think they'd actually talk to you?

No need. If you do this in the vicinity of a sufficiently large quantity of gasoline I'll be able to see the glow from here.

You're reminding me of the famous last words of a redneck: "Hey Bubba, watch this....."

All kidding aside, please don't. You're too entertaining to lose and I really don't wish you any harm.

Coincidently, I'm testing a Canadian made product (which will remain nameless) right now.

Julian typed: My method is to clean the interior of smokes, but c'mon - who the hell carries alcohol swabs for cleaning the sensing chamber? Another tall story I guess.

Alcohol swabs and pads are a MUST (clean any surface before mounting equipment) Also make sure you have: A handheld vacuum (don't be a piggy in someone else's home or business) A dropcloth (lay your tools down on them) latex gloves (to prevent marking walls) dustpan and brush (more piggy prevention) Drill Doctor (nothing worse than a dull bit) and shaving cream (spray a tad over the spot you are drilling through to prevent dust and catch any possible asbestos)

Ok, that's one I never heard of before. Nice.

reachable. In the unlikely event that something metallic iin

less than 10 seconds to wrap a little tape around the

please do not throw old alarm batteries in the trash. take them to your local auto parts store to be recycled. sheesh

Correct. Unfortunately, that is where many of them wind up.

Just alcohol and a cloth.

Yes.

Yes. And at drilling points that may cause an abundance of dirt. And at the entrance to wipe your feet when you go out to the van. NEVER work with out your shoes on. If requested to remove my shoes, I carry shoe booties and take them off if going to the basement or outdoors. Pain in the butt, but better than working without ma booots on.

You might want to try serving gloves. The type they use at food catering places. Latex are hard to get on and off and they make your hands sweat. And just throw them in the washing machine.

Too much to carry. Just the hand vac does the job ok.

I sharpen my own brill dits. But you young-uns don't know how to do that. Anyway, I always have backups and put the dull ones in the carry-home box to be sharpened. I probably have brill dits older than you are.

Do you use After Shave to clean it off? Sounds kind of messy to me.

Customer: Pardon me Tom, but what are those stains around my, keypad, motion detector and smoke detector? Mmmmm you smell good. What kind of after shave do you use? Would I like a shave, you ask? Well, ummmmm, sure, ummmmm I guess so. Do you do a Bikini cut? Tom: Why sure Mrs Haberstrom! If you just step this way and up on the kitchen table, I'll, get my drywall knife and we'll get right to it.

But seriously, have you ever tried to clean out a smoke detector smoke chamber, with a Q-tip and alcohol? It leaves a smeared coating in the chamber. If you're going to use alcohol, it should be cleaned with a brush dipped in liquid alcohol to loosen the coating and then rinsed under flowing water. Blow drier it out or if you have time, just let it air dry. Using a Q-tip only, may work if there's no, or very little dirt in the chamber. But if it's got a coating of hair spray or drywall dust or the

like..... a Q-tip just smears it all around.

Bass is bullshitting again.

Catagorize his Q-tip claim along with: Attention Burglar Go Ahead Make my Day! programed on a Napco keypad.

Yet you "extol" it's virtues on your web page. Is that a "lie" or is it "fraud"?

there is, requiring neither skill, knowledge no

Then tell us O great Guru... How do you trim the charger on a PC-3000...

installing dealer to maintain the system before

is often the first indication that the system had not

Ummm... Are you saying the professional alarm dealer should be "servicing" the alarm system on an annual basis, perhaps once every two years? What? And who's going to "foot the bill" for this "service"?

eight years until the client finally drops their service.

I don't think so, Robert. Most times the customer doesn't want "service" until the panel's beeping or the "trouble light" is on. Very few customers appreciate a "pro-active" approach.

end users who get fed up with that kind if trewatment

supplier. Just as Bob Campbell has made a good

company whose services are notoriously bad, I make a

routine service requirements so long that only a good

over service after a "professional" alarm installer did

installation, failed to service it in a timely manner,

combination of the above.

Is that why you decided to go the "DIY" route?? Your installation company "screwed up the installation, failed to service it in a timely manner, ..."

like to believe that this newsgroup is not

caring people rather than liars and frauds

Sure... Robert... More unsubstantiated nonsense from one of the foremost liars in USENET. Let's examine "the record", shall we? You "list" Mike S. (AlarmSuperstore) as a "liar" and a "fraud". Granted, he's "stooped" to your level on a number of occasions (and exceeded it on many more), but let's look at something a little more in the way of published evidence. Lets compare BBB reports. How many complaints are there against the stores you run as compared to the single DIY store Mike runs. As for the "liar" and "fraud" bit... has Mike *stolen* the property of others to "give" away to his customers (or anyone that asks for that matter) as you have? Can you honestly tell us that the various manufacturers you *say* you represent condone your distribution of their password protected software? Before you label *anyone* a "liar" and a "fraud", I'd suggest you look in the mirror.

Which brings up the subject of Graham (whom you continue to label as "Cracker"). I'd like to know what he's "lied" about and what "fraud" he's committed. Now if you say he performed an illegal credit check on you then we both know that's a "lie" which *you* continue to perpetuate. We *both* know where he obtained your social security number from and we *both* know his employer at the time didn't perform credit checks so there's no way Graham could have utilized "his employer's resources". You should really stop lying.

If we were to use your own justification for providing the Honeywell Dealer Internet Access Code (that it's been freely posted on USENET a number of times - mostly by yourself) then seeing your SIN posted again and again shouldn't present a huge problem, now should it?

You've accused me of telling "millions" and "hundreds" of lies, yet you continue to bring up the same "two" and moreover have yet to provide any proof that they *are* in fact "lies". Where do I work, Robert? What's the name of my employer? I suppose if you repeat your lies and innuendo often enough, you will eventually believe them yourself. I don't however think that extolling the virtues of DSC while running them down here will win you a whole lot of "points" in the "honesty" department. You "post" one thing but state something completely different when it comes to "hoodwinking" your customers, don't you?

I don't think so. You don't "maintain" anything and you don't "monitor" anyone.

buy what you sell? OK.

There's about fifty people that have purchased product from you since

Nah... The average installer is way smarter than you, Bass. He may not be as "well educated", but then after "five years of college", what do you have to show for it?

Another "lie". You registered a company in 1979 (the same year you got convicted of felony assault). You moved to Florida in 1999. Do the math, Robert. Then tell us how you "ran" this company for "24 years" (or how you "installed and serviced systems"). On second thought, don't bother. It would all be a lie.

"Kept a hand"... Uh-huh... sure...

also affords me the

home in Brazil.

When are you next leaving? I'm looking forward to it. I just love those "stories" about your Brazilian "VOIP" service and how "close" you're able to stay to your customers (which can only ever contact you through this Newsgroup).

I doubt you spent more than ten. Probably closer to "five".

Yep. I did it that way for over 20 years. It works perfectly if you use the right kind of swabs.

Bullshit! Alcohol is much better than water or any water-based products for cleaning electronic components and sensing chambers.

right kind of swabs.

cleaning electronic components and sensing chambers.

You didn't do S*IT for 20 years.

I wouldn't beleive you if you said you were dying ....

Whoops ..... Well ..... on second thought.

Good morning Angie, how do I replace the battery in the alarm pad so it will stop beeping? I need help. Thank you.

We can't tell you, but you can punish us by ripping it off the wall and doing damage to your home, or if its a rental losing your security deposit.

The fact that you think the battery is in your keypad indicates that you do not qualify to change it.