Notice that the regulations are for "alarm system contractors in this state". If someone in Florida signs a monitoring contract with Guido's Protection Services of New Jersey which is located only in New Jersey, and is not a contractor in Florida, please show where Florida can take any action agains Guido. The same would be true for Rasheed's Southern India Alarm Service.
489.501 Purpose.--The Legislature deems it necessary in the interest of public health, safety, and welfare to regulate the electrical and alarm system contractors in this state. This regulation seeks to enable qualified persons to obtain licensure, while ensuring that applicants have sufficient technical experience in the applicable trade prior to licensure, are tested on technical and business matters, and upon licensure are made subject to disciplinary procedures and effective policing of the profession.
A broker does not necessarily a party to a contract or execute any agreement. The contract is executed when the involved parties sign the agreement. Handling the contract paperwork in itself does not make one a party to the executed contract. If the broker/secretary/mailman who delivers the contract for execution by the involved partys is not specifically named in the contract as a party to the contract, then they are not engaging in "contracting". If somebody is some how part of fulfilling the contract actions (collecting monthly payments, acting as an intermediary for contract fulfillment, etc), then they probably would be considered to be "contracting".
Proof, Bass, Proof. And since when do you represent "the Group"??
That's actually *your* "ridiculous lie". I *never* stated *I* snap-rolled a 737 and I never stated Boeing lent *me* one either. If you're going to continue with the "flames", have at it, but at least "get it right", OK?
Any alarm monitoring agency that provides service to a resident of Florida State which involves the dispatching of Florida emergency services is required to be licensed. Alarm Central is. Monitronics is. ADT is.
Bass was a "party" in the contract. He was a "dealer" for Alarm Central. If the "dealer" collects money from the client he is receiving direct compensation for the service he (or Alarm Central) provides. Many alarm dealers use "out of state" monitoring services. If their "nexus" is in the State of Florida, they are subject to the Statutes.
Proof, Bass, Proof. The demented "scribblings" of the foremost liar in USENET will not suffice.
Now it's "hundreds". Heh... You keep dragging up the same "two". You're a moron and an idiot.
"Truth" is an illness??
Making up more "stories" now?? And Rod's not even here to defend himself. You're some piece of work, Bass.
thing he blurts out. He's nowhere near as
hardware is X10, he'd be pretty useless in ASA.
You're the "inveterate liar" here Bass. Here you go maligning the character of another individual just because he doesn't see things your way (and once again, he's not "here" to defend himself either). I don't know what really happened between you and Dave, but with your history on Usenet, I believe *him* over you any day. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else here either, but I'll *wager* the majority of people that post here and in CHA would agree with me.
How about posting the link to the statute. It apears to not be contained in chapter 489 part II. Does it specify that the license has to be a Florida license?
"Nexus" doesn't appear to be in chapter 489 part II. I only find it in statutes dealing with the levy and applicability of state taxes, and some criminal statutes. Post a link to the statute that specifies the establishment of an alarm dealer "nexus".
The above is a typical Olson red herring -- argue about an unrelated topic as though it proves the erroneous premise. The issue as it pertains to my business has nothing to do with this because I never offered monitoring service to structures in Florida. He can argue all he wants that you'd need a license to provide monitoring of Florida locations from a central station outside the state. It means nothing to me since I don't offer the service to Florida residents. I never did. Olson knows this. He commented on it several years ago.
The statute seemed unclear as to whether out of state contractors had to be licensed in Florida. Some say yes and others say no. It's a moot point though.
Correct. However, since I never offered Alarm Central's services in Florida no Florida license is required. Olson knows this. You're wasting your effort trying to "convince" him. He's a cynical liar and will never admit he's wrong.
Speaking of cynical liars who never admit when they are wrong, care to address your false claim about me in the audio related "newsgroups"??? Or are you STILL going to avoid "admitting you are wrong."
though it proves the erroneous premise. The issue as
This "issue" (discussion) doesn't pertain to your business and I've not made reference to it either (vaguely or otherwise). On this point you are 100 percent correct. Now go away, and let the adults play!
like Sonitrol panels that no one else can service. You
and I also understand Bob's. (No one understands Jim
RHC: Well, since I'm being drawn into this discussion, I'll state my position in the clearest possible terms. What I and several others do is to simply default panels back to factory thathave been locked in software. ALL information disappears when that is done, proprietary and otherwise, and what the client receives in return for a few bucks is a panel which is as good as factory new - period - and with all the factory new information in it. No one sends us true proprietary panels, because defaulting them back to factory would serve no real purpose. They would still be unusable on any other monitoring station or with any other company other than the one that they were originally set up to work with So why bother with them ? For example, Merlin is a proprietary Paradox board, built for (I think) Microtech in Toronto. When I get them in as part of a bulk purchase of boards, they go straight in the garbage. Other than the fuse on board and the leads, they are useless material to anyone. Nor has anyone every sent me one for unlocking.
Let me also set the record straight. Unlocking boards is not wrong in any sense of the word. It's simply a unique service available to anyone who wants it. Of course there is no way to really know if a board is stolen, or the unlocking is being done on a board which is rightfully not paid for, or is still under contract. That's between the two companies in question as RLB points out! But I do know that the majority of boards that come my way for that service come from a number of large, reputable customers. The many incidental ones I get come from homeowners who in more than a couple of cases have had the experience of buying a home with a fully paid for alarm, and finding the original company won't unlock it unless they give in to extortion (sign a long term contract and we'll do it for you kind of thing...). And you know how I feel about that shit !!! Or often the original dealer has disappeared and simply cannot be traced.
Both DSC and Paradox are well aware I do this up here in Canada. I've spoken to representatives from both companies that I know on more than one occasion about it. Several of the wholesalers even refer local business to me as it comes to them from other buying dealers. Legally, there is nothing wrong with it. I'm not reverse engineering anything, and I can assure you, if the factories felt there was any wrongdoing here, they would take action on it. At most, they might be annoyed that I would be taking sales away from them for boards that might otherwise need to replaced with new ones. In a lot of cases, I am able to put back in service, boards which are not available from the factory anymore because they are no longer made (DSC Classic series). Frankly, in balance, I am sure I end up undoing more real "wrongs" than I do creating any injustices. And I make a very small amount of money for the service in the process (and when did anyone here ever object to that !!...hell...if I worked it out .. hours of experimentation, cost of equipment purchased and custom built, I'm probably working at about two cents an hour.....)
And frankly, when it comes right down to it, I don't give a tinkers damn what anyone thinks either. I am an honest person and I wouldn't knowingly do something that would ever take food out of another honest dealer's mouth (and you'll just have to take my word for that...) I got into this some years ago because when I first started in business, I had customers come to me with locked boards, and the companies wouldn't unlock them. In one case, I was there when they laughed at the homeowner /alarm owner and hung up in his ear !! That didn't sit too well with me....
I have every intention of learning how to do a lot of other makes as well in spite of the large investment in time and energy this will take ! The only ones who would ever have anything to fear are the unethical dealers who lock fully paid for and fully customer owned boards and refuse to give up control when appropriate to the customer. And they are in a very small minority as we all know. Frankly, I don't give a shit about them; the industry would be better off without them (I was pleased to see the biggest offender in Ottawa recently sold his company) Frankly, the whole issue is a "storm in a teacup"
unusable panel that has been locked out it's up to the
panel is. If it's fully paid for, I agree that it's the
are providing service to person in possession of the
asks the mechanic to fix his car because the alarm is
it. He fixes the alarm so the customer can use his
persue the matter with the police. In the case of an
errant client in court.
RHC: Another analogy is the customer who goes into a car dealership and buys a car. He pays for it and walks out. When it needs service, he finds the hood is completely locked, and he has to go back to the selling dealer even for an oil change. Then once his payments are over, he is still forced to go there whether he wants to or not. I've never seen a dealer do either....
Apparently though, there IS a real life issue much the same as this between the large automotive makers and the independant garages with the rights to computer diagnostic information. Automakers don't want the independants to have access to information they must have to properly diagnose and service today's latest high tech cars. That battle is still raging on....May the little guys win....
IF the customer signed a contract agreeing that at all times the panel remains property of the alarm company then it is wrong to unlock that board. Ownership of a proprietary panel doesn't change in a real estate transaction between the client and new owner of the house. Using proprietary information to unlock boards is also wrong IMO. It's hacking.
If it's not a proprietary panel or a leased system, and the customer owns it outright then have at it, but unlocking anything other than a client owned system is unethical.
like Sonitrol panels that no one else can service. You
position and I also understand Bob's. (No one understands Jim
unusable panel that has been locked out it's up to the
panel is. If it's fully paid for, I agree that it's the
are providing service to person in possession of the
asks the mechanic to fix his car because the alarm is
for it. He fixes the alarm so the customer can use his
to persue the matter with the police. In the case of an
Jumping Judas....I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself... I get boards from someone, and I unlock them. If that party deliberately stole the board or has no right to it, how the hell would anyone other than the thief know about that. And that would be an issue between the thief and his victim. If I suspected it was stolen, of course I would question it and if I suspected it was stolen, and still proceeded, then yes, I would be guilty of some sort of crime. But how do you know anything you buy second hand is stolen or not. Lets be realistic here !
And I don't use proprietary information of any sort in the process of unlocking boards. And of course it's sophisticated hacking of a sort. That's how its done.
I'ts not wrong in any sense. If it was, I simply wouldn't be doing it.
RHC
I brive a dus wrote:
junk like Sonitrol panels that no one else can service. You
position and I also understand Bob's. (No one understands Jim
unusable panel that has been locked out it's up to the
panel is. If it's fully paid for, I agree that it's the
They are providing service to person in possession of the
asks the mechanic to fix his car because the alarm is
for it. He fixes the alarm so the customer can use his
to persue the matter with the police. In the case of an
And you never will. You simply can't "compare" an alarm system to an automobile. That's just plain dumb.
Who still locks boards? Certainly not anyone that I know (and I know and work with quite a few independents and nationals despite what Bass is going to say to the contrary). "Leased" systems or units that are under a maintenance agreement should be properly identified. The fact that you're "unlocking" boards that aren't is no skin off my nose. If the equipment "owner" can't take the time to mark (or otherwise inscribe) their parts with words like "Property of ABC Alarms" (or similar), then there's no way that it should be up to you to establish that material people are sending you is "proprietory". I would hope that if a dealer *is* sending you boards to unlock, that he's also "up front" about it.
Bob, the more "high tech" a car becomes the further away it gets from being a "weekend project" to change the oil or "tune up". I just love my 68 Buick Skylark. When you open the hood, you can easily identify all the key components and you don't need fancy diagnostic equipment to tune it up. You open the hood on my Navigator and it's chalk full of hoses, pipes, and "doo-dads". Sure, you can still identify the "basic engine" under all the "dressing", but you sure as shit can't tune the sucker up unless you have a laptop and the proper programs.
Just in case anyone misreads what I posted about this, I fully agree with Bob Campbell on this issue. As he stated, the majority of homeowners requesting the service have boards which they own which the original installing dealer has "locked" in an effort to extort money from them. I've seen this many times over the years I owned an alarm company. The practice is wrong and patently illegal, but alarm companies get away with it because prosecutors consider it a civil matter.
OTOH, I can understand Tom Fowler's reasoning on this issue. He sells alarm systems with multi-year monitoring contracts and he hates it when competing dealers steal his customers away. IMO, Bob Campbell's alarm system unlocking service is unlikely to impact dealers like Tom.
RHC: No its not. The issue is control, and who has a right to it, and for how long. Car, boat, house, alarm system, it's all the same.
RHC: Yes, I know when I very early on made the mistake of leasing boards, I had a sticker on them clearly showing ownership. Other than one that was stolen (which was locked btw), I never had a problem. Seems to me, if it's owned by the alarmco, the least they could do is mark it clearly, and make sure it's outlined in the contract with the customer.
It seems out East, loads of alarmco's lock their boards. Seems to be very common in Montreal and Toronto and also in the large cities in the East. Otherwise, I wouldn't be getting boxes of them in for the service. Glad to hear the abuse doesn't go out your way...
RHC: What's your point ! No one has disallowed you access to tune up information for YOUR car. You can do what the hell you want with it. A customer who owns a locked board cannot do what he wants with it. That's the point !
suprise, suprise. you'll agree with anyone that won't call you out for the trouble maker you are.
bull bass. if the ho moaner won't pay for a service call then they don't get service, or the company is a quick flip artist like your newd buddy Tom and is not around to unlock it.
bull bass
why is that? is this the same guy you called a crook and liar for the last
10 years? what has changed? either you are lying now or were lying then. either way you have no net cred.
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