Sure thing Frank ..))) Popups can be insidious things that creep into sites and are as deeply hidden sometimes as spyware ! If you see any, let me know, but I think my site is pretty clean...
As far as traffic goes, I get about 15 to 20 hits on average daily. I've spent years getting it top rated in Google ! I have been told that my site is actually given out by professors at some universities and security colleges as a potential reading source, and at certain times of the year I can see huge numbers of hits coming in. I have also been told by some customers that at least some of the sales forces from some of the large nationals do read my site. I'd like to think it's so they can actually learn something and do a more complete job for their clients (physical security advice etc), but I suspect it's probably got more to do with learning how to sell against me. No problem, hopefully they will learn something in the process that they can use to assist their own clients. The site was never aimed at being a sales tool; however, over time, it has worked that way, almost by accident.
As far as board unlocking, I only take business east of the Manitoba border, and only on DSC or Paradox panels. My good friend in Port Moody handles west of the Manitoba border, and Jim Rojas is the real expert, and handles all types of panels for all of the USA.
RHC
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
You still have my link on your site after our little dust-up? Well, actually, that doesn't surprise me. But it's pretty selfless seeing as I do not link to you: What alarm dealer in his right mind would? ahahahahahahahahaha
Funny thing... Today I met a couple of brothers really interested in buying my little operation. They don't have a clue or give a shit about length of contracts, they seem more interested that they can just step in and run with it. They don't want to start from scratch... they googled and I popped up and they've heard the name before and like what I'm doing...go figure... here I was thinking I was operating in a vacuum
Of course I still have your link up. Why wouldn't I ? It takes a lot to offend me. Besides, we compete, but you are also in a different market than I am...the medical market. I've found a unique "niche"...one that few others other than my partner company are in, so there is no reason whatsoever not to help those who also compete with me. Besides, I consider you a personal friend in the business.
Be very careful Mike when you get into any involvement with someone buying into your company. Best to get your lawyer involved and make sure that any staggered payments are paid on time. Most important, get a large amount up front; it's just like alarms, they pay nothing, they value nothing. If they have a large financial stake in the company, they look at things differently.
I can see their logic. With hundreds of smaller companies in the Ottawa area, it would be near impossible to start from scratch with any impetus or next to immediate growth factor.
RHC
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
Thats me, a horrendous beastie boy...all my monitored panels are locked. The locals aren't.
:-)
| > Tell me about it! | >
| > I had a lady call me, said she just moved into a house with our system in | > it..could we please come out and get her online ASAP..her ex-hubby was a | > skeez-bag etc. OK. I run one of my sales guys out the same day, test the | > system, reprogram it for her, teach her how to use it. She signs the | > contract (yes I checked public records and she was the registered owner). We | > collect the partial quarter of monitoring from her on site. | >
| > 9 MONTHS later and we hadn't recieved any further payments and no response | > from polite collection letters...I finally get her on the phone and she says | > she never wanted monitoring and never signed any damn contract! Yes, she was | > NASTY nasty nasty. Ok fine...I turn off monitoring and remove her code from | > system until we can get this straightened out. I also send her to | > collections. Now all of a sudden she is calling ME everyday...after a few | > days I return her phone call but still refuses to payup. So I send my sales | > guy back out for a face-to-face... | >
| > TURNS OUT....she did NOT sign the contract..she had her girlfriend/lover | > sign the contract to defraud us (never thought to ask for photo ID). The | > reason she didn't want her credit dinged was that her ex-hubby had gotten | > sole custody of the kid during the divorce because he had found her in bed | > with the girlfriend and she was going to court to try to get the kid back. A | > REAL sleaze bag living in a million dollar house. Go figure...she tried to | > rip me off! The panel is still locked and I hope it cost her a ton of money | > to get it replaced. | | | OH MY GOD! | | You mean you actually lock your panels? OH what a horrendous beast you | are. Why anyone who locks their panels is just such a nasty nasty | degenerate. A real meany out to defraud their customers. I mean they | OWN the panel and they should rightly have the code so that they can | much easier give it to the next alarm company who they're going to | defraud. | | Opppps ...... pardon me. I just had a Campbel moment. | |
Ya know, I wasn't even going to respond to this because your replies are so obtuse that I'm wondering if you're intentionally playing stupid.
You call what I'm doing "harping" when it's always you who brings up the subject of long term contracts? WHEN did you ever see me or ANYONE here encourage or entice an end user to sign a long term contract? When has anyone EVER brought up long term contracts without you first being the one to tell an end user, that long term contracts were unethical, a scam, of no value to the end user. To look for someone who wouldn't "lock them in" "trap them" etc, etc, etc ad nausium harp harp HARP! Nobody here actually CARES what you do or don't do with your clients. THAT IS until YOU begin HARPING on it with people who come here. Why is it OK for you to insult all the
dealers here and everywhere, by your constant HARPING, but it isn't ok for me to object? If you don't use long term contract's that's simply great for you. But once you put yourself into the position of feeling obligated to WARN people about not signing them, you put yourself exactly in the same category as Wireless Paul. What you feel about contracts is fine. All well and good. But there's no reason in the world for you to have to continuously HARP on it. ESPECIALLY, since you know that every one in this group as well as 99.9% of installers out there uses. at least a one year agreement. You're intentionally stirring the pot, trying to force your policies on dealers by virtue of your advice to end users. YOU know that there's no dealer that's EVER going to give one month agreements like you do, yet you encourage end users to seek short agreements. You're deliberately leading the end users down a senseless path seeking something they're never going to find. Yet you push it as something they can expect to negotiate. You've obviously diverted some end users away from dealers out there who're running their businesses as every other dealer is. What's your problem? OK already! It's good for you. Leave other people out of it. Why would you want to affect some other dealers business simply because of your obsession with this? Leave it alone for cripes sake. How many people have read Paul's idiocy about wireless and have not used it even though it may have been the ideal solution for them.Now. How many dealers have given a quote for a job and when they wouldn't reduce their agreement terms, lost the job. And now the end user goes out and ultimately finds that EVERYONE has long term contracts and the guy on the internet group was full of crap, and now the original dealer is SOL. Because now the end user is too embarrassed to call back the original dealer since they disagreed over the term of the agreement.
YOU'RE the one who's alway HARPING on and acting out this holier than thou business ethic, of everything for the end user. If your ethics are so damn perfect, how can you justify deprograming boards for people?
WHO, said anything about revealing dealer codes. It's the fact that YOU, erase boards for people and you don't even know if those boards were locked because the end users owed the alarm company a trunk load of money! And then you talk about dealers scamming the public while you may be helping people or other dealers to cheat the original dealers out of their just rewards.
All that is true but you tell end users to demand the code once the system is paid for. There's no way that you can ever know if the end user is going to screw the dealer out of money sometime in the future. There's no way that you can ever know that the dealer isn't going to give bad service either and then not unlock the board. But you can damn well think about
what you do to dealers and people in this group, when you tell end users to demand the code, possibly putting a dealer at risk, just because you like to play White Knight, in the eyes of end users. What does that do to the dealers in this group that lock their boards and the legitimate dealer out there, who's only trying to protect his assets and income? What's this obsession of yours, of giving up your fellow dealers, simply for the opportunity of **** INFORMING**** some end user that you'll never see of meet? Sure, do what ever you want for YOUR customers, but leave the rest of the industry dealers and their customers out of it! Nobody named you caretaker of the trade. Or should I say misdirector of the trade. Every time you mention some of your outlandish policies, you may well be ruining a good relationship between a dealer and his potential client.
See what I mean? How damn obtuse can you be! You DO insult EVERY dealer when you tell end users that long term contracts are a scam. That they're unnecessary. That they're a rip off.
OF COURSE they're necessary. Not to you, but to every alarm company that has any sense at all about how to run a business and to gain equity in their company. You besmirch the integrity and reputation of every company out there and in this group, every time you scorn the use of contracts. No one here ever says that one month contracts and free service is stupid until YOU start with your *** INFORMING *** the end user stint. Maybe we should start addressing you as Bob- Paul Campbel.
What? Do you think that that is unique? I actually help people get into the alarm installation trade? Train them, hook them up with suppliers, and service providers. What's the big deal. Only a big deal to someone who wants to be *admired* for there philanthropic endeavors, I would imagine. I provide information, equipment and technical advice to the local cable company so that they can better accommodate alarm system hookup when they install their VoiP service. I train installers for my competition and do service calls when their people can't find a solution to a problem. And some other things that I wouldn't even mention here. What? Do you think your piddly little efforts are something special? NOT! And you can be sure that there are other here who outdo the both of us in these endeavors. But nobody brags about it or thinks they're great. It's just something that smart business people do to further the trade. But you bring something special to the table regarding the the trade, when you tear down the practices of dealers everywhere ..... with your INFORMING end users about your pie in the sky policies. Could it be that your contributions above are just making contrition for your sins?
To serve what purpose? Do you actually think that you haven't given some alarm dealer out there, someplace, a hard time ....... to no avail?
If he DOESN'T get his long term contract, your causing him to loose equity in his business. If he refuses to reduce his requirements, he may lose the job. So what's your point? Do you enjoy doing things like this
to unknown dealers out there? What's your problem? It doesn't make a hill of beans difference WHO your post are AIMED at. It' who the post's are actually affecting.Yes we ARE big boys but you don't seem to be playing an adult game here. You just seem to be so self centered and possessed of you policies that you just plain don't give a damn WHO you affect adversely, just so long as you get your point out to some obscure end user who isn't ever going to find a dealer who will follow your policy ANYWAY!
Oh and by the way, now that you've read all this,
....even though you don't actually say it to all the people in this group and to dealers who you effect by your posts, I'd put the above comment and the irresponsible things that you intentionally do to people here and dealers everywhere, as just your way of saying Fuck you. Well ...... the same to you ....... too.
RHC, it isn't right for you to run down other alarm dealers who choose to use something other than month-to-month service contracts. It's an accepted industry business practice dating back a hundred years or more. If you choose not to use long-term contracts, good for you...but don't run down the rest of the industry for doing so. It's unprofessional. Plus, you are the exception, not the rule.
Jim, if RHC will refrain from running down those of us who use long-term contracts, how about letting him alone? If he chooses to run his business a certain way, let him! I don't even mind if he preaches the virtues of month-to-month contracts, so long as he doesn't attack the rest of us in the process.
There are different ways of doing business, and neither one of you is going to convince the other that your way is best. I assume both of you are making lots of money; isn't that enough? And beating this subject to death isn't doing anyone any good.
Your post is so rambling that I find it hard to respond in any direct way to specifics, except to add a few general comments. For some reason, you feel obligated to take on the role of "defender of the faith" as far as objecting to my position on one sided long term contracts. I sure can't see how anything I say casts me in the role of someone who is insulting all dealers who do use long term contracts. As I've said ad nauseum (but you don't seem to differentiate this issue very well), it's the UNNECESSARY use of long term contracts under certain conditions that I object to. However, I seriously doubt that anything I say here affects how anyone runs their business, and least of all how their potential clients react to their sales proposals. I don't flatter myself that much !! But if it actually does give some reader cause to think and ask questions of their alarmco, so much the better !! And if that is Mikey's version of the "white knight on a horse", well ....so be it !!
However, you are dead wrong when you suggest that consumers should just lay back and accept industry practices that don't do a damn thing for them, just because "that's the way it's always been", or because current practices are to the "equity advantage of the industry", or simply "the way you feel it should be" regardless!!! And if better informed end user shoppers make things a little more difficult for alarmcos by simply asking for a better deal more slanted to their best interests, then that's too damn bad !! All you or others gotta say is no !! That's called the free market chief !! Its exactly the same parallel when conventional alarmcos got caught by the sharp marketers and the "free system" concept. We all objected at first, and many still do for many valid reasons, but it didn't stop the spread of sales of these types. We're seeing the same thing with the AlarmForce crap and their "two way voice" !! The point is, the market will go where it will go regardless of what you or I say or do !! But for you to suggest that the things I say have THAT much affect that they would actually cramp someone's style in the sales game is somewhere between paranoid and just downright stupid ! It sure as hell isn't realistic in the slightest !! I suppose I should be flattered !! But it always amazes me how the people who object the most to what I say are the ones doing it in those ways....
To change the subject back to unlocking boards, almost all the locked boards that come to me come from other alarmco's, NOT end users. So if anyone is shafting anyone, you are right, I really wouldn't know; it would be those alarmcos you so like to stand up for that would be screwing others !! The very odd end user that sends me a board directly is always responding to a situation where he has bought a home where he clearly owns the system, but the original alarmco has locked the board and won't give him the time of day unless he signs a contract for monitoring ! Last I heard that's extortion !! If the original alarmco didn't get paid properly, they have no right to take it out on the new owner of the home. If they own the equipment, the onus is on them to remove it before the house changes ownership, NOT take out their vengence on the new innocent owner !
At least while your posts have gone up in length, they are shorter on your usual brand of vulgar profanity ! Who knows, you keep it up and you also might take away my title of longest poster on the ng.
One thing you can absolutely count on though, I'm not going anywhere, and I'll be sure to give you lots of ammunition along the same lines in the future for you to rant on about......
RHC...alias..."the white knight".....:)))
......snip balance for brevity.........
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
Here's a strange one for you. I had a customer call me all concerned about how his three year contract was up and he was reading the renewal clause (which states it reverts to an annual renewal after the first three years). He wasn't comfortable with the fact that because other costs were rising, his monitoring expense might as well. He opted to renew at his current rate for another three years. I'm thinking, if he's thinking like this, how many of my other customers out there are as well? I'm going to mention this in an article in our next newsletter and give my customers the choice of either renewing for a year or for three years (which co-incidentally locks in their monitoring fee for that period as well). I'm also thinking I should add that it isn't our intention to increase our rates. Our monitoring expense hasn't gone up (it's actually gone down because we've just "crossed over" to the next tier).
On the "flip side", one of my newer sales guys came back with a signed contract which the customer had altered to read "one year" instead of three (which is our standard contract term). Another clause on the contract stipulates that if it isn't accepted by a manager, the job may be cancelled and the customer's deposit returned. The salesman was worried that he might lose the commission on a fairly decent sale (in this case the equipment and installation totalled $4834.00). I told him not to worry and accepted. These days you have to be flexible and some people starting new businesses (like this client was) may not be willing to commit to a long term monitoring agreement. I draw the line at a "month-to-month" contract though. I don't think it serves either the company or the client well.
Actually Frank, I expect the best approach might be the one that a local company uses here. They offer ALL payment alternatives to their customers, from:
1- leasing the hardware and a middle of the road price for the ongoing
2- buying the equipment at varying prices depending upon how long a contract they want to sign for (1,2,3 or 5 years)
3- full price up front with no long term commitments (like I do). (I do know their up front price is a little bit higher than mine though)
4- Major high price up front and no monitoring at all (BIG TIME cost up front...)
If their pricing is right, I expect they make money on all alternatives. I'd be curious to know which options sell the best (likely the ones that pay their salesmen the most...:)) But at least they are able to cater to all crowds with this approach
And...OK.....my apologies to anyone that feels offended by my opinions on contracts. No intention along those lines was ever meant; however, free discussion is what a newsgroup is all about. Ideas should stand or fall on their merit, not be muzzled into silence because some participants don't agree with them !!
But to keep a little peace on the newsgroup, I'll tone it down a bit (but just a bit...).....quack, quack....:)))
RHC
I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
Why would you be concerned, or even pretend to have knowledge, about another man's peppy? Have you turned your infatuation to guys again? Remember that Deja search of groups showing you visited the gay groups, amongst your other perverted newsgroup appearances? The plumpers & peeing girls started to bore you? What gives, Pinkster?
snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote:
worked with in Port St. Lucie decided to become a "little prick salesman".
I say, if he stops denigrating the people in this group and installers in general who all "just happen" to use long term contracts. Fine with me. Other than that, his 'holier than thou" attitude is tolerable.
He's done this continuously, for years here and no one has ever picked up the gauntlet he's thrown down. You'd have figured that by now he'd have come to the conclusion that no one agrees with him and he can do what he damn well pleases with his own company. After so many years it's finally reached the point that ....... who the hell want's to listen to it any more and there no reason why anyone should. He's been ignored. He's been politely challanged. He's been asked to stop. Yet he continues.
In addition, he's rampantly hypocritical by sounding off on Paul and Cooper for doing the same thing that he does. Yet in spite of the fact that no one agrees with him, and that he's insulting the entire industry by claiming contracts are a scam, he believes that because it's HIM, what he thinks really IS good, true and correct and therefore his message is legitimate to HARP on. Only Paul and Coopers message isn't even though there's no difference between them.
No one is "offened" by your opinions on contracts.
What IS offensive is you comments implying or actually stating that the use of long term comtracts is a scam and an unneccessary requirement and that companies that use them are out to cheat the end users. You never indicate that the intent of contracts is for a company to build equity in their business. What the problem is ....is that every time you mention to an end user that contracts are a scam, you would have to write three or four paragraphs of explanation of the history, the purpose, the intention and the results of what long term contracts mean and how they may or may not affect the price of a job. For instance, today, my installations are going for not too much more than they were
25 years ago. Why is that? Because now there are long term contracts that companies use to amortize the cost of a job. (And I'm not talking about the Freebe systems either)How does that make a long term agreement not a legitimate part of doing business. If that's not a fair trade off, I don't know what is. And if one ignores that part of the pricing of a job, they'll never be competitive. Yet you don't mention that and wouldn't. You can't possibly cover all the contingencies and exceptions as part of your "long term contracts are a scam" statement to end users. And if you don't, then it's simply an insult sounding HARP by you.
You've got no obligation to sway any end user or alarm installer who comes here to your way of doing business. Trying to do so in view of the fact that what you do is not the way everyone else does business, simply appears as an " I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks or who I insult, I'm gonna do it anyway ......... attitude.
Problem is you may have a "bill" to pay that you don't want to. And that would be peace in this group.
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