Do YOU ACTUALLY Own Your Equipment??

there are as

More like five. I've got a truck and crew for each one (makes for

*really* good service). And three full time sales people. Now that you've got me thinking about it, I should raise my rates, but I really think hiking my standard monthly monitoring fee up past the present $5500.00 per month should wait until *after* Christmas. I should also hire some more salespeople. :-)

Whoa now RH, Jim says that block sender option doesn't work!

I usually read the first 3 pages then start to nod off... Seriously, Bob, he's right. When you attack ADT, you're attacking the industry. That's all of us.

Bob, you're scaring me here: you sound like a fish (bass) Don't try to BS me that you don't know Jim is a top-notch installer. I save some of his posts in my notes and I bet you do too. My money says you have never blocked him.

Cooper is playing with something I think has to do with the changes in low frequency sound waves in a building when a door or window is opened. It had a legitimate beginning way back in the 70s methinks but it never seemed to catch on, maybe it doesn't work, I thought it held a lot of promise. Unless you have one and confirmit doesn't work, "scammer" is a pretty strong accusation. Paul is on a mission, he went away when he got bored. Many of us popped up to ensure readers weren't duped, in fact, do you recall who led the charge? And finally, I, for one, appreciate his pompous defense of the industry. It sounds like he is proud of his work and his chosen trade, what exactly is wrong with that?

By all means, Bob, tone it down. But not to spare us his tirades, I enjoy them. The man has a gift, maybe he was Navy or Army back there somewhere. I always know EXACTLY what's on his mind or how he feels. And my vocabulary has improved too. Do it because he's right. You can tell folks how you run your business but no need to denigrate others who don't see things your way.

So there. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

RHC: Sorry to bore you....:)) ADT is hardly the industry ! They are the biggest in the business but account for no more than 15% of the industry. My friend, the industry is US...you and I (and Jim), and other small and medium sized dealers who hold the balance of power albeit in a totally unorganized way.

If you remember, I still am a third party dealer on ADT's station. I have 10 clients who refuse to change for perceptual reasons, so I am stuck with ADT. If you had major problems with your monitoring station, I'm sure you'd complain as well ! (Hell,if you remember, when Security 24 and Protectron amalgamated, a slew of dealers deserted the station for nothing more than political reasons. But with ADT the problems were and are real! ). I could write a book about those bad experiences with ADT, but I won't bore you with them. But if I "attack" ADT, I can assure you, I am NOT attacking the industry in general - just reflecting upon my own bad experiences as a dealer !!

RHC: You'd lose your bet then ! I had him blocked for about 6 months, but unblocked him because I sensed that it was counterproductive. And I won't again as long as he posts without vindictive bile ! I have no doubt he may be a top notch installer; that's never been an issue !!

RHC: As near as anyone can tell, it is an ultrasonic device. I had an ultrasonic motion years ago on my first DIY home alarm, and it false alarmed so often that it became pretty clear that the technology was next to useless. I bought it from Peter Leclair of VSN fame, back 30 years ago when I did locksmithing and window bar work for the firm in it's early beginning. The stuff was crap !!

RHC: If you remember, for years I and many others offered to give his unit a fair test, but he always ducked and ran. So scammer still holds !!

RHC: No I don't, but I remember it was many years ago.....did the guy per chance have a "white knight" riding along with him ?

RHC: Absolutely nothing Mike ! I agree with that thrust in general. Where we part company is when he takes a small part of what I say and in effect takes it largely out of context. Then as if to win some sort of point, he starts on other unrelated things like unlocking boards in some sort of ridiculous attempt to make me out some sort of a bad guy, even going so far as to suggest I am dishonest ! Well tell that to Jim Rojas who is anything but a bad guy, and who does many times the volume I do (sorry to drag you into this JR..)

By all means, Bob, tone it down. But not to spare us his tirades, I enjoy them.

RHC: Well good, glad you do....

RHC: Yeah, that would certainly fit the image. He certainly didn't learn it in any school of higher learning ! And YOUR vocabulary ?....you mean at your age, you still haven't learned to swear like a sailor without his help....:)))

Do it because he's right. You can tell folks how you run your business but no need to denigrate others who don't see things your way.

RHC: As I said, I don't denigrate any legitimate small dealer in the industry. Why would I....I AM one for crying out loud !!!! I don't know how many times I have to repeat that. I'm simply telling readers there are many ways to buy their alarm system, and to look at them all before casting the die. Locally Henderson Security have that way as one of many options available. Numerous other companies do so as well, albeit most do so as a "fallback position" rather than lose the sale..

So there. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

RHC: Ok, but no "wacky tobaccy"...

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Jim

from what I can se is that since bass is not what he used to be,your now jumping on Mrs Campbell..

I for one think that long term contract that renew themselves at the end are a fraud..just like him...

I know that for some reason like a lower price upfront for the user make an INITIAL contract ok,but as soon the contract is done,it should just go and renew itself every day or at least every week..so that a client is never stuck on paying something he doesn't need anymore.. like if a house burn down and wont be reconstruct before months,if someone have a 1 year contract he has to pay for the rest of the contract even if there is nothing to protect,and that's a damn fraud for me.....

I don't understand how he can make profits by not asking a cent on service call,but that's another story... fine with me if he do make a living out of it...

"Jim" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Mrs?

Actually Jim's been whining for months now because Campbell won't slam RLB

Go f*ck yourself Mark.

And so do I.

That is, regarding the self-renewing contracts, without notification to the end user. Anyone who has my contract is notified 30 day's prior to renewing and has the option of cancelling.

And can I assume that you own your own business and have another source of funds for your retirement? Or are you an employee with a pension fund? In other words, small dealers/company owners who've been astute enough and worked their businesses successfully for a long time, are eventually going to sell their accounts. I've been in this business for over 35 years. If I couldn't depend upon the return I'm going to get from my accounts for retirement, All I'd have to sell when I opt out, is "goodwill". Which, in any kind of a small home inprovement business, is hardly worth two cents. So you'd say that a small alarm installation business owner should give up his retirement stipend? Why would/should he do that, when he can legitimately offer his clients term contracts that will bring him some reward at the end of his career?

Petrum, if you took a 5 year loan out for a brand new car and totaled it a year later, do you think the bank is going to forgive you the difference? You made an agreement to pay the amount due but it's not contingant upon you using the car, keeping the car or wrecking it. That's why you have insurance. No matter what, you've got to pay off that loan. Sure, in this example the car has a value that the bank can always repossess, but ...... the point is, an agreement is an agreement. No one "forces" a client to sign a monitoring agreement. When they sign it, they can imagine that conditions might change during the term, but they'll sign it anyway. So time passes and either by choice or fate, their conditions change. Who's fault is that? The alarm companies?

What EVER he does should be and is fine with everyone. Why would anyone object to how a person runs his own business? I couldn't care less. If that's what he want's to do ..... fine. THAT's not the problem and as dumb as what he does, may sound to others, he'll do it regardless of what others think about it. It's his obsession with feeling that he's got to **** INFORM **** end users who come here, that companies that offer term contracts are defrauding the public. And that they should look for companies that are not trying to scam them into signing term contracts. That's misleading ..... because 99.9 % of alarm companies require at least a one year agreement and saying it's a scam is defaming all those companies .

Leasing and service contracts and monitoring contracts have been around since the late 1800's, in one form or another. It's a legitimate aspect of doing business. Lawn sprinkler companies, lawn care companies, cleaning companies, heating companies, etc, etc, etc have contracts, why not alarm monitoring? When people sign a contract they're aware that it's a legally binding agreement and that they don't have to sign, if they don't want to. I do agree with you on the automatic renewal part, but that has to do with the state or area that the transaction takes place. It's up to the lawmakers to take care of things like that. I think that's real sneaky. Who's going to remember a year or more later that they have to cancel anything? On the other hand, when ever the credit card companies come at me with their deals of sending me something or giving me a service for free for 60 or 90 days, and if I don't like it, all I have to do is cancel it. ....... I simply refuse it if they wont do away with the automatic continuation. If there are people out there who know agreements are automatic renewal and they don't refuse it or know it and forget to take the proper action, you can't blame the alarm company. Only if the alarm company doesn't point it out to the client.

Now THAT's a scam! And I'm sure it happens. Now if Bob C was warning end users who come here about THAT, who could object?

Like I said before, you either don't read very closely what I've said in the past, or you've got a lousy memory ! I've said that many times. Do a search under "AlarmBridge"! Or maybe you've simply got this contract thing so far up your butt, you can't see it clearly any longer !!

Now ...ONE.... MORE ....TIME, I don't object to long term contracts in general when they are called for; just when they are MISUSED (granted, my definition of that covers a wider range than yours). This is just one of the more obvious examples!

This thread is quickly becoming a very boring "broken record".....

RHC

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Hey that wasn't very nice

Give it up, RHC. His mind's made up; don't confuse him with your opinions.

Note to gramps: Pick on me for a while, I don't mind. Get yourself all worked up and red in the face. Call me a fag. Here's something to get you started, you self righteous, bullying ass: Fuck you! js

I just hate to respond to such LOOOOONG post..

but I have to.... here we go..answer are in line with some snipping around...

"Jim" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Good one point were we meet..

you are one of a few that do so..and theres the problem,i really think that if RHC would state that some do ask if you want to renew and that if there is no answer from the customer,the contract renew itself for a small period of time,like maimum a year,things would me more then ok..

Now we see the reason why you do this type of business...so from what i can understand you ask for less then some for a service,and put this under a long term contract so that later on the account can be transfered to a third party for a fee,and cash on it...for retirement..

thats a type of business plan,what about other type,like asking a bit more then other,with out long term contract and try to kep the customer happy and still make enough to put away some money for retirement..one other way to do business,but this one is like more customer inclined then the first one..cause the customer can make a choice if he is not happy..with the first one it will cost him..

why do you play with my nick? dont like it? sound very childish to me..

does a customer of yours have a way to take insurance on the contract?

no one is at fault..but why do the customer have to pay for a service they cant use anymore? will the insurance company that were protecting the car will ask for money if the car if totalled?

now from what i can see you just have to **** INFORM **** them that some company do something a bit differently and do send end of contract notice...that would make you look better then bashing on someone that is trying to "protect" end user.. in fact he is just pushing his business plan on the direction he want to.. a good way to promote yours would be more effective then to look as the bad guy trying to knock off some one ,that as a costumer point of view,is making a good thing for them...

Not me...now maybe you can make the post that would make people see the difference... Just use the good wording and you will be pushing your business plan the good way,much better then just name calling and bashing...

I fnd it amusing that Jiminex actually considers RHC offensive. RHC is one of the most decent people to post here and Jiminex is... well, never mind.

here to your way of doing business. Trying to do so in view of the fact that what you do is not the way everyone else does business, simply appears as an " I don't give a damn what anyone else thinks or who I insult, I'm gonna do it anyway ......... attitude.

Translation: If you don't agree with the way Jiminex rips... er, does business, then he's entitled to attack you until his BP does to him what he tries to do to anyone who dares to oppose him.

be peace in this group.

IOW, if you want "peace in the newsgroup", you'd better not disagree with Jininex. Then again, if you don't happen to give a rat's Morgan what Jiminex says or does, feel free to say what you believe.

I thought you were the counter clerk? You musta been in back flippin those burgers. You didn't get any grease on the contract did ya! It don't look to professional with those stains on it. These days you have to be flexible and some

In reality, Robert is more than likely thinking that the monkey can now move into a new high rise cage.

If you can find a counter in our office (that's not in the kitchenette or part of the receptionist's desk), I'll buy you dinner at the Grouse Mountain Chalet and pay your return airfare. As for "flippin' burgers", I leave that to my number one guy...

Well, let's see, with a brief search under "long term contracts" posted by you, I come up with things that when read "closely" as you suggest, sounds an awful lot like insults to everyone who uses long term contracts.

( the empahses are mine) I also chose NOT to allow my customers to be **** trapped by long term contracts;*****

Long term contracts are simply a way for alarm companies to ensure a guaranteed revenue stream for themselves and do NOTHING for the consumer.

My crystal ball is no clearer than anyone else's, but I am willing to predict, as this market matures, as competition heats up even more, and especially

**** as customers of these companies who use the long term contract scam finally wake up and get informed,******

that the norm will move to month to month contracts.

******* Customers will finally begin to realize that the long term contract is just so much bullsh*t.....!!! *******

And I don't buy the argument (although I know it is real) that I won't be able to sell these contracts to a large firm later on when I wish to retire, for nearly as much money -

*******as justification for *conning* people into a long term contract..!! *****

It's only the large conglomerates who need long term commitments to hold their clients due to high prices and sometimes spotty service.

It's safe to say I wouldn't have 60% of the clients I do have if I

******forced them to sign contracts with unnecessary long term restrictions.******

I can have $5000 coming in the door each and every month, stop installing, and just spend my time keeping my customers happy...!! And continue to smile knowing that these 500 people will never

******be *victimized* by any of the "revenue sharks" in our industry..... *******

Now if that isn't making it quite clear what you think of companies who use long term contracts, I don't know what is. In none of the above cases did you clairify that *some* small companies use the contracts as equity for their retirement. Or that contracts are usually not enforced by many alarm companies. Or that if someone moved away that there wouldn't be any persuit of the client. or ..... or ...... OR anything at all, as a matter of fact, that qualifies what you've said as only being applicable to those companies who are in the RMR business. What you've said and say about long term contract and the people who use them is quite clearly all encompassingly durogatory, impugning and denigrating ANYONE who uses long term contracts.

As I mentioned eariler, for some reason you feel compelled to constantly speak negatively about long term contracts. When somone pins you down on it, you THEN, mention qualifiers, that you don't mean to include in your all encompassing comments and that you don't mean to insult legitimate users of long term contracts. etc etc. To avoid including these legitimate users in your biased opinions to end users you'd have to mention all of the exceptions, every time you tried to tell an end user about long term contracts. Otherwise the end user goes away thinking that EVERYONE, who uses long term contracts is scaming them. And that's just not true.

This is a good example of what I'm talking about. Everytime you post to a new visitor about long term posts, do you really think it's worth it to have to post all the different ways long term contracts can be used or misused? Why don't you just refer them to your web site and stop putting your self in the position of making everyone here, who ALL use long term contracts, feel as if they've been criticized for running their business according to what is a normally accepted method. YOU don't like it when people tell you that what YOU do is wrong. Why would you think it's alright for you to tell other people that what they do is wrong? You want to put it on your web site, who cares? You do it here and ......... eventually you're gonna get some objection about it.

That's EXACTLY how everyone else here feels about your "broken record" comments about long term contracts and about ADT. Should your broken record be anyone acceptable than someone elses?

sounds like RHC is on a 'JIHAD' against the industry from Canada. We may be forced to preemtively attack Canada for harboring terrorists.;)

I don't remember those exact quotes but you are once again taken things out of context. You conveniently forgot to to put any of those comments in context. I can't remember those exact words, but I do remember saying such things (and stronger) in regards to AlarmBridge's hidden auto renewing 5 year contract, which is what we were talking about.

And my comments about ADT still stand ! They and the other nationals WOULD be in trouble if they didn't have these long term contracts to hide behind ! And by revenue sharks, I AM referring to ADT and a lot of the other companies who install these hopeless wireless minisystems just to get the long term contract. And of course the newest kid on the block - AlarmForce !

However, if you or anyone else feels slighted by my comments, then I will be more careful in the future and will qualify my comments carefully so no reader goes away feeling that long term contracts in and of themselves are a bad thing, or at least they see it scoped out within the industry realistically. But with rare exception, they do nothing for the end client, so people should shop around, since more and more companies will do that if pressed by the buyer !!

And unless we want to continue this tirade any longer, I suggest you also start to look at things more objectively, and start looking at the "big picture" in regards to the contract issue ! Win, lose or draw according to your standards, it doesn't serve any further purpose other than stirring the pot in the newsgroup. And frankly, neither of us are going to change our minds, so lets just drop it !! Feel free to shoot at me in the future if you don't like what I say......

RHC

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