ARE YOU REALLY BEING MONITORED? READ THIS

That is not how it works, the monitoring center doesn't dial into each customers home and wait for a signal, its the other way around, if a timer test is programmed into a panel at the customers premises, then the control panel calls the monitoring center at preset intevals, if this test signal is not received at the monitoring center then the monitoring station system will flag a no timer test and the appropriate action can be taken.

Mastermind from MAS (General Electric) is but one of many software packages used in the industry.

Doug L

Sonic sounds like Paulie re-incarnate but on a different mission of misinformation.

| > This activity cannot be done all the time. Realistically, it can only | > be done efficiently once a month. First, the companies performing this | > "service" have to pay for all the long distance phone charges, the | > postage for letters notifying those failing, that their system needs | > service, and the humans performing these tasks, usually get paid by the | > hour. I knew the receptionist in our branch (ADT) was charged with | > this task. She used to tell me it was an impossible task. | >

| > While working at ADT, I discovered through conversations with | > installers and managers that they NO LONGER send this test signal. I | > had access to ADT's at home VPN, or remote access to their website and | > database, through the internet. I was shown an area on Mastermind, the | > software used by most, if not all major security companies to track | > everything from billing to service, to account, and alarm status | > history. The area I was shown detailed any service related issues. | > One night, while learning the system, and using my town code, I | > discovered about 14 of my recently installed customers were NOT being | > monitored. They had "error codes", when tested from the initial | > install. When I confronted my manager, and asked him why, he said,"ask | > the install/service manager." I asked him, and he just sighed, and | > never really gave me an answer or promise to correct these issues. I | > feel like I must have opened a can of worms. What this means to me, is | > that many, many customers are out there, that are paying for moitoring, | > but are not even online to the monitoring center. They won't know | > unless their alarm goes off, and no one calls. | >

| > In Bell South from Protection One's defense, and Brinks, to the best of | > my knowledge, both companies are still sending the bullets monthly. | > ADT is not. It was simply too expensive for a company with 5 million | > customers to do it once each month. Is this ILLEGAL? To NOT send a | > signal and still charge you? The short answer is no. They covered | > their butts by their agreements, or contracts. In that little, small | > type that every sales rep. tries to "blow by you", they state that "IT | > IS THE CUSTOMERS RESPONSIBILITY TO CALL THE MONITORING CENTER WEEKLY" | > to make sure they are active. Most rep.'s will tell you to do whatever | > is comfortable, whether a weekly call, or a monthly call. Any SALES | > REP worth his or her salt, if he/she REALLY cares about your safety, | > WILL tell you to make those calls. It is the ONLY way you will know | > for sure. | >

| > If you don't do this simple task, and remind yourself to do it, you | > risk having a serious emergency event, with no response, at your | > residence. Almost as bad, in the long run, short of having a non | > responsive emergency event, you will be paying for a service you are | > NOT receiving. | >

| > Don't be misled. Be safe! If you have any questions, please do not | > hesitate to e-mail me. | >

| |

You mean I've just fed the troll?

Doug L

Well thats why we use a daily test signal from all our panels. If the station doesnt get the test signal every night, we get a fax in the morning saying which account didn't test.It costs us nothing to do,And the customer is called by 10am that morning.

Why do a monthly "ping test" so to speak when almost all panels can do a daily test.

S> One of the most interesting, yet disturbing things about monitored

Rodney? Is that YOU?

Dunno, just sounded like you know who...or someone like him.

| >

| > | > This activity cannot be done all the time. Realistically, it can only | > | > be done efficiently once a month. First, the companies performing | > this | > | > "service" have to pay for all the long distance phone charges, the | > | > postage for letters notifying those failing, that their system needs | > | > service, and the humans performing these tasks, usually get paid by | > the | > | > hour. I knew the receptionist in our branch (ADT) was charged with | > | > this task. She used to tell me it was an impossible task. | > | >

| > | > While working at ADT, I discovered through conversations with | > | > installers and managers that they NO LONGER send this test signal. I | > | > had access to ADT's at home VPN, or remote access to their website and | > | > database, through the internet. I was shown an area on Mastermind, | > the | > | > software used by most, if not all major security companies to track | > | > everything from billing to service, to account, and alarm status | > | > history. The area I was shown detailed any service related issues. | > | > One night, while learning the system, and using my town code, I | > | > discovered about 14 of my recently installed customers were NOT being | > | > monitored. They had "error codes", when tested from the initial | > | > install. When I confronted my manager, and asked him why, he | > said,"ask | > | > the install/service manager." I asked him, and he just sighed, and | > | > never really gave me an answer or promise to correct these issues. I | > | > feel like I must have opened a can of worms. What this means to me, | > is | > | > that many, many customers are out there, that are paying for | > moitoring, | > | > but are not even online to the monitoring center. They won't know | > | > unless their alarm goes off, and no one calls. | > | >

| > | > In Bell South from Protection One's defense, and Brinks, to the best | > of | > | > my knowledge, both companies are still sending the bullets monthly. | > | > ADT is not. It was simply too expensive for a company with 5 million | > | > customers to do it once each month. Is this ILLEGAL? To NOT send a | > | > signal and still charge you? The short answer is no. They covered | > | > their butts by their agreements, or contracts. In that little, small | > | > type that every sales rep. tries to "blow by you", they state that "IT | > | > IS THE CUSTOMERS RESPONSIBILITY TO CALL THE MONITORING CENTER WEEKLY" | > | > to make sure they are active. Most rep.'s will tell you to do | > whatever | > | > is comfortable, whether a weekly call, or a monthly call. Any SALES | > | > REP worth his or her salt, if he/she REALLY cares about your safety, | > | > WILL tell you to make those calls. It is the ONLY way you will know | > | > for sure. | > | >

| > | > If you don't do this simple task, and remind yourself to do it, you | > | > risk having a serious emergency event, with no response, at your | > | > residence. Almost as bad, in the long run, short of having a non | > | > responsive emergency event, you will be paying for a service you are | > | > NOT receiving. | > | >

| > | > Don't be misled. Be safe! If you have any questions, please do not | > | > hesitate to e-mail me. | > | >

| > | | > | | >

| >

| |

Not being a tech, I guess I stand corrected. I thank you for that. The basic premise still stands though. The monitoring center checks to see that the location is sending a signal. I know for a fact that ADT and Hell South from Protection One both use Mastermind. Hell South actually relies on more of it's features that ADT.

You must be involved with a really small company then. My guess is that only a small independent company, where most of the installers don't even have up to date background checks, and possibly no worker's comp. insuarance. For any homeowners out there, make sure the company you choose is NOT an independent dealer, especially an ADT dealer masquerading as a REAL TRUE BLUE ADT salesman. They just might injure themselves in your home, and with no worker's comp., they just might go after your homeowners policy. Be careful who you are dealing with. That is my opinion.

I have been doing this for over 40 years and I can say that I never heard of anybody operating like that.

Every communicator sends a test signal every night and the central station software tracks these signals and you know within one hour if the signal did not occur. At that point I will attempt to dial up the missing panel and see what sort of response I get - many times the customers phone is out of service. Many times the panel will answer and you will discover the panels' clock has lost the correct time so it doesn't transmit test signals at the prescribed time.

All the cell packs are 'bumped' by the panels at closing time to make sure they are working and they all report in during the night also - usually between 3am-5am.

Most everyone I know has their panels send a test signal every night too.

I do know of companies that dial up their panels once a month to download the event logs. I do know of companies that only test their radios or cell units once a month

In the case of ADT most of their stuff in recent years has been done by trunkslammers and varies in quality from poor or very poor to not working at all depending upon who the truckslammer was that performed the last service or non-service as the case may be. Many times it seems that sales people are doing service and they don't have a clue what they are doing. Many time customers know stuff is wrong or not working but it costs $70. for the serviceman to come out so they don't report it.

Many times the serviceman don't have a clue either; a really bizarre case comes to mind where a dress shop was broekn into seven times in two years and ADT didn't get any signals all seven times and all seven times a serviceman came out and checked the system. The service record in the control set showd that they each checked the system after entry and found nothing wrong. Here I come as serviceman #8 and it took me exactly two minutes to discover there was no working phone line. I said to the sub the phone line is dead and she says you can use my cell phone if you need to make a call. I said no I need to find out why the phone line connected to the alarm panel is dead. She says the cell phone is all they have - they did have a phone line installed when the store first opened so the alarm could be hooked up but then they had that disconnected and the number switched to the cell phone. Then she says ADT used to call her every night and tell her the alarm wasn't set but when she came to the store and checked it everything was okay and she told them to stop calling her.

So, a lot of times the customers DO know that theres a problem.

Oh, absolutely. That way, they'll have pros like you on the job. js

That was very informative. I said I wasn't a geek. That proves that the training for the salespeople is almost non-existent. The tech's here would have liked me selling their jobs, though. I never "married" a location for ANY device. I suggested that they would "probably" install this here and that there. In the end I always left it to the installer to decide, and told the customers that as well.

I have had tech's almost UNSELL what I had sold. I had two while at Hell South from Protection One tell a lady she needed a bunch of other crap, when she and I had discussed everything, and paired her old AT & T system down. She didn't need the same level of security. I would have had to sell her a sensor for 30 some windows, and she would have bailed. The dumb tech's opened their mouths and I ended up rushing to her install at 4:30 pm on a Friday afternoon in rush hour. When I got their, the retards were putting a motion detector BEHIND the top of a big floor to ceiling curtain, and I got pissed. The customer even wondered why they were putting it BEHIND the curtain. I chewed their butts right in front of her. They had also convinced her she wasn't going to get a sensor for her back door, when it was plainly listed on the front page of the agreement that she was.

I do have some stories of tech's that went far and above what I would have expected to get a job done, and get it done right. That was from the best installers I ever worked with, from the Port St. Lucie Branch of ADT. They will always be #1 in my book. The best install manager was Wesley from West Palm Beach by far. So, I'll give credit where it is due.

Thanks for your story and correction....I am still learning some things.

Subject: Re: ARE YOU REALLY BEING MONITORED? READ THIS Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms => Jim Rodney? Is that YOU?

I could have sworn it was RFI Paul with a new modus operandi. Did a location search on his IP and came up w/ this:

IP: 68.223.143.41 Country: United States City: Boca Raton, Florida

So what do ya think, is it Dennis Kozlowski???

See if you can learn to quote at least some of the post you are replying to, that way we have a chance, albeit a slim one of understanding what you are waffling on about.

Doug L

I'd buy an alarm from a technician before buying one from a salesman. I have FAR more stories about what stupid stuff salesguys have sold than what techs have done.

This is quite possibly the worst post I've ever read in the 7 years I've been following this newsgroup. This is entirely incorrect and looks to be made up by someone with little or no knowledge of how alarm monitoring companies operate.

First of all, ADT does not have humans dialing into alarm control panels to check their status. The systems perform a timer test by dialing the central station. If the central station does not receive this timer test, a service ticket is automatically created to resolve the issue. No humans involved. Fire code requires commercial fire systems send a timer test once per 24 hour period. So, everyone of ADT's thousands of fire alarm systems sends a test signal every day to ensure the system is being monitored. Other systems can be prgrammed to do the same, or the timer test can be done more infrequently, like once a month. All other reputable companies operate the same way.

Other systems use a constantly supervised line to ensure communication with the central station is not interrupted. This is commonly done three different ways: leased lines, supervised long range radio, and internet-based monitoring.

Of course, a simple cellular backup combined with regular testing of you system will make sure it works when you need it regardless of phone line problems.

Again, every commercial fire alarm system must send a daily timer test. ADT receives thousands and thousands of these each day. MAS is the largest supplier of monitoring software in the industry. It's no suprise that ADT uses them, and has for years. However, billing and order entry is done in other systems within ADT. MasterMind is used for monitoring and service dispatch, only. Security Link used MasterMind for all business functions, and from what I understand, it worked quite well.

nothing to do.

1000 accounts-1 signal per day-31 days a month=31,000 messages a month. Are they dialing your 800 number? If so, how does this equate to *no costs*? Are you charging for daily tests? Lets take the bigs. Do the math. 5 millionX31 days=155 million signals in a month, nice phone bill and not very realistic.

With your obvious disdain for all you work with and tech's "unselling" your recommendations, it is no wonder that you have moved around so much and had so many jobs. If you chew your technician out in front of the customer, you certainly are not making yourself look big. It makes you and your company look like fools. What kind of confidence will that customer have that anything else was installed correctly? I am pretty sure that once the installer finished the installation and began testing, he would realize the device was misplaced and move it.

It isn't that you still need to "learn a few things", what you need is an attitude adjustment. With the postings you have made here in the past few weeks, I would certainly never want you working or representing me. I can't imagine how anyone would? From an installation point of view, nothing is worse than an installer who doesn't understand the equipment or what is required to install it. I had a salesman once who always tried to put motion detectors in the middle of outside insulated walls with no attic access above them. He is now back selling pharmaceuticals.

You obviously don't know Jack about how alarm systems operate, Smokey. A daily, weekly, or monthly test signal is pre-programmed and initiated from the customer's equipment, not from the CS.

You might want to gain some knowledge before you profess to share it with others.