Do YOU ACTUALLY Own Your Equipment??

Read your agreement. Follow the cancellation conditions of your agreement or the agreement could renew.

They can go after the remainder of a contract including renewal periods. It amazes me when people who call say they aren't under a contract. 99% of the time they are under a contract. They may have reason to cancel but they are usually under a contract. They can lien your house.The company may have already done so when they installed the system. I believe (don't quote me) it is a U2T6 filing that is actually on the equipment but will show in a title search on your home. It is not uncommon with leased equipment. It can get ugly and it isn't worth it. Let them have their stuff if they even show up to get it.

On a renewal clause for alarm monitoring? I don't know about other states but in Connecticut where I worked for over 20 years they can't do that and in Florida where you and I both work they cannot do so either.

time they are under a contract.

It works both ways. Very often when people call certain alarm companies to tell them they don't want monitoring they are told that the equipment is leased (even when it is not) and that they are under a multi-year contract (even when they are not). The game is to intimidate the customer into staying with the monitoring even if they don't want or need the service.

Not all or even most alarm companies do this sort of thing but enough of them do that customers should insist on seeing the contract when told they can't quit the service. This is especially true if you've just bought / rented a new home or apartment. If the alarm company tells you that you are obligated to pay a monthly fee but you didn't sign a contract with them, they're most likely lying.

Regards, Robert L Bass

Robert, you and "SonicDuck" obviously swim in the same pond... :-)

That was just a portion of the thread I posted to.

Go back and read the original post, especially where the poster said "What are they going to do to me if I don't let them in" and then read the Florida lien laws about things that are made real property and want type of lien can be put on when there is leased property involved, than think about what can be done and not what is the norm and then get back with me.

Prove it with documentation and if it is, than come get it

(even when it is not) and that they are under a

Prove it with documentation, easy to prove or not

The game is to

If they have an agreement and the company can produce it then it is what it is, period. If the company cannot prove they have an agreement, where is the intimidation factor. The company doesn't have a leg to stand on. If the customer does in fact have an agreement but doesn't want or need the service, buy out of it. That is normal business.

The customer should have a copy of the contract anyways. It is more of a case where they have one but didn't read it and would rather think that they don't have one. I always ask people, when I get questioned about this, "Have you asked your attorney about this?" The answer is always "no". I tell them that I am not an attorney, I explain the language in their agreement and then tell them again that before they proceed, seek the advice of their attorney. These agreements have been written by attorneys, defended by attorneys, must be effect for insurance purposes, hold up in collection cases, etc. and have been tested time and time again. But on the other hand, if they didn't sign anything they are not obligated, UNLESS, their old company sold their agreement to a new company and the old contract, which they did sign, has an assignability clause in it. Than the customer is obligated to the new company under the old contract.

Or, most likely, where working under the information they ask for, such as an address, and meanwhile, the old owner did not cancel the service prior to moving. Or, there may be a bulk deal signed with the homeowners association or apartment management company, but either would have great savings to the customer. Why was there contact made to the alarm company anyway unless they were inquiring about service? I believe once the conversation gets to the fact that the resident is a new homeowner and there are no special circumstances, things change to more of a sales pitch. However, on the flip side, I have had people call with the story that they are the **new** homeowner, which I have found to be a fraudulent statement. They try and pull this to get out of their contract. They are to stupid to think I can't find out that they do if fact still live there. Caller ID says they are calling from the same phone number or cell number that has always been listed on the account. Tax records show the house has not been sold. People will try anything.

"... I have had people call with the story that they are the **new** homeowner, which I have found to be a fraudulent statement. They try and pull this to get out of their contract. They are to stupid to think I can't find out that they do if fact still live there. Caller ID says they are calling from the same phone number or cell number that has always been listed on the account. Tax records show the house has not been sold. People will try anything."

Tell me about it!

I had a lady call me, said she just moved into a house with our system in it..could we please come out and get her online ASAP..her ex-hubby was a skeez-bag etc. OK. I run one of my sales guys out the same day, test the system, reprogram it for her, teach her how to use it. She signs the contract (yes I checked public records and she was the registered owner). We collect the partial quarter of monitoring from her on site.

9 MONTHS later and we hadn't recieved any further payments and no response from polite collection letters...I finally get her on the phone and she says she never wanted monitoring and never signed any damn contract! Yes, she was NASTY nasty nasty. Ok fine...I turn off monitoring and remove her code from system until we can get this straightened out. I also send her to collections. Now all of a sudden she is calling ME everyday...after a few days I return her phone call but still refuses to payup. So I send my sales guy back out for a face-to-face...

TURNS OUT....she did NOT sign the contract..she had her girlfriend/lover sign the contract to defraud us (never thought to ask for photo ID). The reason she didn't want her credit dinged was that her ex-hubby had gotten sole custody of the kid during the divorce because he had found her in bed with the girlfriend and she was going to court to try to get the kid back. A REAL sleaze bag living in a million dollar house. Go figure...she tried to rip me off! The panel is still locked and I hope it cost her a ton of money to get it replaced.

Experiences, Experiences. The longer we are in the trade the more we collect. I just find it interesting that some that aren't in the day to day find it easy to critizes the industry, its procedures and ethics. Oh well, it takes all kinds to make the world go around.

I think the real issue is that within any group of people there will always be a complete mix of the good, the bad, the ugly, and the outright scumbags...hey, that almost sounds like a Clint Eastwoork movie. Unfortunately, this also occurs within the ranks of our customers. I bet there isn't a single dealer out there that doesn't have his own version of a horror story...from outright cheats, to having to actually call the police in one instance I personally had....

Sad, but reality....

RHC

PS: Did you get the fax OK I sent you ?

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

Bob,

I received the fax just fine. Thank you. There is some useful items in there and I see where they are pushing the cell as primary and the VOIP as secondary. Good sales tool for them. It increases their sale, RMR and is a safer bet. They aren't just walking away from a potential customer but offering them an option.

girlfriend/lover

Clint Eastwoork? Would that be the Belgian version of our classic cowboy?

| >> Tell me about it! | >>

| >> I had a lady call me, said she just moved into a house with our system in | >> it..could we please come out and get her online ASAP..her ex-hubby was a | >> skeez-bag etc. OK. I run one of my sales guys out the same day, test the | >> system, reprogram it for her, teach her how to use it. She signs the | >> contract (yes I checked public records and she was the registered owner). | > We | >> collect the partial quarter of monitoring from her on site. | >>

| >> 9 MONTHS later and we hadn't recieved any further payments and no | >> response | >> from polite collection letters...I finally get her on the phone and she | > says | >> she never wanted monitoring and never signed any damn contract! Yes, she | > was | >> NASTY nasty nasty. Ok fine...I turn off monitoring and remove her code | > from | >> system until we can get this straightened out. I also send her to | >> collections. Now all of a sudden she is calling ME everyday...after a few | >> days I return her phone call but still refuses to payup. So I send my | > sales | >> guy back out for a face-to-face... | >>

| >> TURNS OUT....she did NOT sign the contract..she had her girlfriend/lover | >> sign the contract to defraud us (never thought to ask for photo ID). The | >> reason she didn't want her credit dinged was that her ex-hubby had gotten | >> sole custody of the kid during the divorce because he had found her in | >> bed | >> with the girlfriend and she was going to court to try to get the kid | >> back. | > A | >> REAL sleaze bag living in a million dollar house. Go figure...she tried | >> to | >> rip me off! The panel is still locked and I hope it cost her a ton of | > money | >> to get it replaced. | >>

| >>

| >>

| >

| >

| | | I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you? |

| |

Hell, that's an easy one: sue both the woman and her girlfriend! What they did is fraud, and they're both liable. Imagine the girlfriend trying to explain to a judge why she signed someone else's name to a contract.

Ahhh...crap ! Can't spell worth a damn....must be another "seniors moment"....:))

RHC

OH MY GOD!

You mean you actually lock your panels? OH what a horrendous beast you are. Why anyone who locks their panels is just such a nasty nasty degenerate. A real meany out to defraud their customers. I mean they OWN the panel and they should rightly have the code so that they can much easier give it to the next alarm company who they're going to defraud.

Opppps ...... pardon me. I just had a Campbel moment.

"Opppps ...... pardon me. I just had a Campbel moment"

Jim, At your age, that could be serious :^)

Norm Mugford

I've heard it looks alot like soup when it comes out! :)

As usual, you can be way off the mark. If you think even a bit before you write, you'd know that this example is a perfectly legitimate use for the lock feature and your sarcasm is misplaced. I operate no differently than the few others who unlock boards. They are usually sent to me in bulk by an alarm company or monitoring station who I have to assume are doing things honestly and by the book. If they are defrauding the previous company, I nor the others who do this would have no way of knowing.

However, the ones I unlock for myself, or for other small, local dealers are done after the previous company bailed out of the business, or who simply refuse to assist another company in the business and wish to be vindictive since they are not getting the monitoring business. Sometimes it seems these boards are just locked because they can do it, with no thought or care about any consequences to the end user.These I have control over and I can say in all cases, are legitimate situations where unlocking is simply saving the customer / company money. As far as local companies go, locking boards seems to be more in the domain of the small companies; I have yet to come up against larger companies who routinely lock boards. ADT at least locally, never does it !

If you wish to be critical of me, at least stick to something you know something about ! Don't let your dislike of my business practices sour your posts, or you simply prove to everyone that you are what you often appear to be.

RHC

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

Uhhh Excuse me but didn't you just say in another thread:

"Frankly, I didn't bother to read the rest of your diatribe. I've heard it before ad nauseum ! And the constant insults just add to the fact that you are really not worth responding to. It's a free newsgroup ! Say what you wish; however, your conduct here speaks highly of the worth of your input. And I care so little about what you think that frankly, responding to your comments is just not worth the time it takes... "

Seems you actually don't remember what you say ...... or if you do ........ stick to it. Or is it simply that you only respond to the things you can pick and choose because you have no defense for your constant offending of other alarm dealers?

And what exactly is it I don't know about? That you don't have a clue if you're unlocking a board for someone who cheated their alarm company out of money due? That you couldn't possibly investigate the source of every panel sent to you, to see if you were being lied to about the reason it needs to be unlocked?

And if you constantly propose that the locking code be given to the end user once they've purchased the equipment, how could this be an accurate statment "in this example" ?

And what about the insults that you heap upon ligitimate dealers who are simply trying to build equity in thier buiness when you tell end users that any contract longer than one month is a rip off by their alarm company?

Jeeeeze Bob, is that a pointy tooth I see there? Hmmmm, must be your wool is slipping.

Yep, it's called Campbel's Cream of hypocrisy soup.

Uhhh Excuse me but didn't you just say in another thread:

RHC: Jim, I'll read your posts no matter how long or off topic as long as they don't begin with personal insults. The ones that do, I just ignore the balance, which is the case in point with the post you're referring to. Others I'll respond to whether you and I agree or not. But if you keep harping on the same stuff in your posts,...well.... I've already said my piece, and there simply is no use replying, since your constantly harping on the same points is your attempt to score some sort of "win". I am not here to compete with anyone in any regard. I find no real reason to defend myself against your claims, some of which are outrageous. I'll simply explain the facts and let the reader judge based on those....

Seems you actually don't remember what you say ...... or if you do

RHC: Again, strange I don't see you railing against the others who unlock boards. Could it be you just like to pick on the minor points of my posts to score some kind of point ? I don't and have never proposed giving the end user the previous installer code that was in the panel. If you take the time to read and understand my web page on the subject, you will see that the installer code is NEVER given out under ANY conditions - period. That belongs to the previous company, and I have no right to reveal it (when I need to even find it out). There are legitimate uses for the lockout feature, and these have nothing to do with the installer code being available or not. My complaints are ONLY against companies that use the lockout feature for illegitimate purposes that have more to do with vindictiveness, or trying desperately to keep a client who wishes to leave for legitimate reasons...poor service, bad relations...whatever. Thankfully, these are in the small minority ! But when the panel is paid for, and no money is due the alarmco, and the board is still locked keeping the end user from legitimate further use of HIS property, then yes, I'll continue to object to this practice!

RHC: Jim, I do NOT nor NEVER WILL insult or not support small local dealers. Small dealers are the lifeblood of this industry and hold 85% of the business. I too am a small dealer, and hold that this is the best way for any residential and small business to buy their security services. Your claim that I think like a large corporate employee is totally without merit. It's true I've been there, and I totally reject that approach to doing business. Long ago, when I was in that position, I decided that if I ever got out of that ratrace, I'd run things my way, not the way that counted most to the corporate "bean counters" and to hell with the end customer !! This truly is the most proposterous claim you have ever made ! Just for your information, I routinely do the following things which I find hard to understand how anyone could ever interpret as " not supporting small dealers":

1- I give advice to a lot of small dealers who have no computer skills, relating to upload and download of their panels. I routinely upload their client's panels for them if they are unable to do so, or are on site with no access to local uploading. 2- I often give advice on technical matters to the best of my ability relating to the two panel lines I know well...DSC and Paradox. 3- I routinely give small companies a "heads up" if I receive calls from their clients wishing to leave (I wonder if the tables were turned, whether you'd do the same thing for me...) 4- I link to other dealers on my website who provide either a competitive service or a complementary one to what I am doing (right Mikey....) 5- I assist other small dealers to do their websites when they are not conversant in HTML. 6- I routinely unlock boards from dealers I trust for no charge to them provided their explanation is reasonable.

As far as heaping abuse on other companies for their use of long term contracts....only when it is not necessary. I recognize that long term contracts are a solid part of every alarmco's business practices. That's fine and works for them. It doesn't for me whether you and I agree or not. BUT...other than a few exceptions, it does NOTHING for the end user, and that is my sole point when I bring it up in a post. You and I are big boys; we know how things work on both sides of the issue ! We can each make individual decisions on the matter. My posts are aimed at end user readers, solely to give them the cautions that no one else seems to put out ! If they choose to sign up that way, that is their choice ! But they should know there are two sides to every story....

As far as your posts go, occasionally you make good points when you stop spitting and snarling long enough to calm down and think about what you are saying, and come back with facts and opinions and not just vindictive commentary. We may never agree, but as long as you keep it civilized, we can continue to discuss things. Go berserk, and I'll simply "plonk" you as not worth bothering with. It really doesn't matter either way to me....

RHC: Yeah...whatever....

Well, I have to get back to unlocking a load of 50 some boards that just arrived this morning....ta ta..... Oh, by the way, thanks for the opportunity to obliquely advertise my services......

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

Ummm... I can find a few mistakes and pop-ups on your website and probably steer a whole lot of "traffic" your way too... :-)