ADT Safewatch 3000 pro RF versus GE Simon 3 with Nextalarm

I keep getting stuck where you say you are gonna be in Asia and you will self-monitor - don't be silly.

Given the two choices you have given...go with ADT.

Nextalarm...sheesh.

G" wrote in message news:439447b0$0$21277$ snipped-for-privacy@news.wanadoo.fr... | Hi, | | I am debating beetween getting a GE Simon 3 system or an ADT Safewatch

3000 | pro RF. I tried to weight the pro and cons of each system (see below) and it | looks like the Simon 3 is a winner. | Am I right? | Thanks in advance for any advice/comment you could give me regarding that | matter. | | FG | | | ANALYSIS of the sistuation: | | | | While they send me in Asia for 12 months, my company is going to pay for the | installation of an alarm and the monitoring of my condo .When I come back, I | do not plan to keep the proffessionnal monitoring. So I am looking to have | them install a system that will allow me to monitor by myself my condo (it's | 1300 sq ft condo, max distance between sensor and alarm panel = 25ft). Once | it has been installed, I want to easily be able to : | | - maintain it, | | - program it to call me in case of an intrusion and be able able to reset it | with a touch phone, | | - schedule X10 events (switching on lights...) . | | | | So far, we are considering 2 possibilities for our basic setup (wireless | system, 1 keypad, 2motions, 2 remote, 1 smoke, 2 door contacts): | | - Go with an independent installer who will install a Simon 3 system | for around $1200 and we will then subscribe to a monitoring company like | nextalarm.com | | OR | | - go with an ADT dealer and a Safewatch pro 3000 RF system $759 | ($499 for the basic system + $95 for the extra keychain + $165 for the | extra motion sensor). The girl from ADT was OK to offer a one year contract | with ownership of the sytem instead of the usual 3 year | | | | From my "limited" point of view, it seems that the Simon 3 panel fits my | picture better since. It looks like it will be easier for me to : | | - maintain the system | | - control it over the phone and program it to call me in case of an | intrusion without the need of a monitoring service, | | - subscribe to a different monitoring company (not necessary ADT) | | | | The ADT safe watch system (ADT customized vista 20P??) seems more | professional and offer hardwired sensors but it also looks like : | | - it will be a pain for me to mainatin or add new components (X10 | switches) or choose to subscribe to another monitoring company because ADT | has kind of "locked the system" | | - less user friendly and more expensive to control it over the phone | (I believe you also have to pay ADT an extra $180 to get the remote phone | control) and configure it to call you in case of an intrusion | | | | So, it seems to me that getting the Safewatch system would be overkill and | that the Simon 3 would be a better solution, especially if I want ot have | the possibility to NOT need to use a professional monitoring service but | just want the system to call me or other numbers in case of an intrusion. | | | | Am I right to choose the Simon 3 or am I missing something? : ) | | | | Thanks in advance for any piece of advice you may give me, | | | | Best Regards,, | | FG | | | | | | | | Bonus questions : ; ) | | | | Q2: Can the ADT dealer actually offer a 12 month monitoring service and | guarantee that we will own the system after those 12 months?? I thought ADT | dealer were only allowed to offer 3 year contracts. | | | | Q3: The dealer/installer told us that they could not install any new wiring | because the place we own is a condo and therefore they can only offer | wireless systems. Is this correct?? | | | | Q4:The independent installer told us that they are not allowed (in | Clearwater Florida) to install smoke detector in condo (but they can in town | homes). The ADT dealer didn't mention any restriction regarding the | installation of a smoke detector. Who is right?? | | | | Q5: The installer told me that wireless recessed door sensors are no working | well with the Simon 3 system and that I should go with the regular wireless | door sensor. Is this correct? | | Is there also a big difference in quality between the various sensors? Any | brand/model, you would recommend for motion detector or door sensors? | | | | Q6:Any opinion about | | |

Response "in line".

It's a good panel. Please ensure your installer provides the remote wireless or two wire touchpad. Putting the main control which incorporates the system touchpad next to the front door isn't a good idea. How long do you think it would take someone to rip the sucker off the wall?? Could they do it during the standard 30 second entry delay?? The main control should be mounted in an out-of-the-way location.

Make sure someone checks on your place every few days. If you're leaving for a whole year, don't forget to turn off the hot water tank (and the cold water supply to it). Turn off the water to your toilet tanks as well.

Correct. The ADT version of the Ademco Vista 20 has some important differences programming wise. It's also fairly limited with respect to communications format. The upside is that the main system board is relatively easy to replace with your standard off-the-shelf board. Anyone can do that.

I wouldn't say it was any less "user friendly" than the Simon 3.

I wouldn't worry about it either way. If your company's willing to foot the bill, have them sign the agreement stipulating to the one year of monitoring and that the system will revert to your ownership/control at the end of the contract term.

Simon 3's easier to install. I'd get a second quote from another independent dealer on the same equipment and service. Don't forget to ask for the remote keypad.

You should be dealing with ADT corporate and avoid the dealers (I've heard there are some very unscrupulous ones out there although I haven't personally encountered any). As for the length of contract term... as long as it's clearly stipulated, you shouldn't have a problem.

A hard wired system in a condo is problematic, yes. A wireless system is much easier.

Pure hogwash. A monitored smoke detector in addition to the unit originally supplied only serves to enhance your personal security.

The installer's being "lazy". The ITI wireless products are amoung the best on the market. The recessed contacts take a bit more effort to install (you need a bigger drill).

The difference isn't worth mentioning. You might want to stipulate to a "pet proof" motion though. This would help when you're selling your condo (as an extra feature).

Nextalarm doesn't do their own monitoring. They farm it out to various independent stations across America. I'd suggest investigating a

*local* (to you) solution.

I think he wants to have it monitored while he's abroad and then self monitor when he returns. I would recomend having it installed by a reputable local company and have the same company monitor it at least for the first year or the length of the warranty. I would also recomend having it professionally monitored rather than self monitoring after he returns

Doug L

Thanks Frank,

Your idea of just replacing the main board by a standard vista 20P is good .

I'll go with ADT and their Custom vista 20P if my company is willling to pay the extra stuff needed by their vista 20p to match the simon functionnalities :

- extra 2lines alpanumerical keypad to be able to program the pannel (standard ADT keypad is a "fixed english" type)

- extra VIP phone module to be able to take control of the pannel over the phone (extra $160)

- upgraded power supply to pilot X10 devices ($40-$60)

Regarding the possibility of ripping off the pannel from the wall (wether a Simon 3 or Vista 20p), I had allready planned to

- put it in a hidden place and have the siren installed in a different room.

- have a 10sec or even zero delay for the entry zone because I could desactivate the alarm using the keychain remote control.

- leave as a decoy ; ) the old and disfunctionnal Beesafe alarm pannel that was installed in all condos. This one is indeed installed in plain sight in the entrance and can be neutralized/ripped off in 5 seconds...

Regards,

FG

dont disable the entry delay on that door...one day your keyfob battery may die...just have one fob button programmed for instant away (maximum) - i think you can do that if i remember.

the ADT 20P is very very similar to the regular 20P only a couple of different programming fields.

| >

| > Response "in line". | >

| >

| >> Hi, | >>

| >> I am debating beetween getting a GE Simon 3 system or an ADT Safewatch | >> 3000 pro RF. I tried to weight the pro and cons of each system (see | >> below) and it looks like the Simon 3 is a winner. | >> Am I right? | >

| > It's a good panel. Please ensure your installer provides the remote | > wireless or two wire touchpad. Putting the main control which | > incorporates the system touchpad next to the front door isn't a good idea. | > How long do you think it would take someone to rip the sucker off the | > wall?? Could they do it during the standard 30 second entry delay?? The | > main control should be mounted in an out-of-the-way location. | >

| > Make sure someone checks on your place every few days. If you're leaving | > for a whole year, don't forget to turn off the hot water tank (and the | > cold water supply to it). Turn off the water to your toilet tanks as | > well. | >

| >

| >> Thanks in advance for any advice/comment you could give me regarding that | >> matter. | >>

| >> FG | >>

| >>

| >> ANALYSIS of the sistuation: | >>

| >>

| >>

| >> While they send me in Asia for 12 months, my company is going to pay for | >> the installation of an alarm and the monitoring of my condo .When I come | >> back, I do not plan to keep the proffessionnal monitoring. So I am | >> looking to have them install a system that will allow me to monitor by | >> myself my condo (it's 1300 sq ft condo, max distance between sensor and | >> alarm panel = 25ft). Once it has been installed, I want to easily be able | >> to : | >>

| >> - maintain it, | >>

| >> - program it to call me in case of an intrusion and be able able to reset | >> it with a touch phone, | >>

| >> - schedule X10 events (switching on lights...) . | >>

| >>

| >>

| >> So far, we are considering 2 possibilities for our basic setup (wireless | >> system, 1 keypad, 2motions, 2 remote, 1 smoke, 2 door contacts): | >>

| >> - Go with an independent installer who will install a Simon 3 | >> system for around $1200 and we will then subscribe to a monitoring | >> company like nextalarm.com | >>

| >> OR | >>

| >> - go with an ADT dealer and a Safewatch pro 3000 RF system $759 | >> ($499 for the basic system + $95 for the extra keychain + $165 for the | >> extra motion sensor). The girl from ADT was OK to offer a one year | >> contract with ownership of the sytem instead of the usual 3 year | >>

| >>

| >>

| >> From my "limited" point of view, it seems that the Simon 3 panel fits my | >> picture better since. It looks like it will be easier for me to : | >>

| >> - maintain the system | >>

| >> - control it over the phone and program it to call me in case of | >> an intrusion without the need of a monitoring service, | >>

| >> - subscribe to a different monitoring company (not necessary ADT) | >>

| >>

| >>

| >> The ADT safe watch system (ADT customized vista 20P??) seems more | >> professional and offer hardwired sensors but it also looks like : | >>

| >> - it will be a pain for me to mainatin or add new components (X10 | >> switches) or choose to subscribe to another monitoring company because | >> ADT has kind of "locked the system" | >

| >

| > Correct. The ADT version of the Ademco Vista 20 has some important | > differences programming wise. It's also fairly limited with respect to | > communications format. The upside is that the main system board is | > relatively easy to replace with your standard off-the-shelf board. Anyone | > can do that. | >

| >

| >>

| >> - less user friendly and more expensive to control it over the | >> phone (I believe you also have to pay ADT an extra $180 to get the remote | >> phone control) and configure it to call you in case of an intrusion | >

| > I wouldn't say it was any less "user friendly" than the Simon 3. | >

| >

| >>

| >>

| >>

| >> So, it seems to me that getting the Safewatch system would be overkill | >> and that the Simon 3 would be a better solution, especially if I want ot | >> have the possibility to NOT need to use a professional monitoring service | >> but just want the system to call me or other numbers in case of an | >> intrusion. | >

| > I wouldn't worry about it either way. If your company's willing to foot | > the bill, have them sign the agreement stipulating to the one year of | > monitoring and that the system will revert to your ownership/control at | > the end of the contract term. | >

| >

| >>

| >>

| >>

| >> Am I right to choose the Simon 3 or am I missing something? : ) | >

| > Simon 3's easier to install. I'd get a second quote from another | > independent dealer on the same equipment and service. Don't forget to ask | > for the remote keypad. | >

| >

| >

| >> Bonus questions : ; ) | >>

| >>

| >>

| >> Q2: Can the ADT dealer actually offer a 12 month monitoring service and | >> guarantee that we will own the system after those 12 months?? I thought | >> ADT dealer were only allowed to offer 3 year contracts. | >

| >

| > You should be dealing with ADT corporate and avoid the dealers (I've heard | > there are some very unscrupulous ones out there although I haven't | > personally encountered any). As for the length of contract term... as | > long as it's clearly stipulated, you shouldn't have a problem. | >

| >

| >>

| >>

| >>

| >> Q3: The dealer/installer told us that they could not install any new | >> wiring because the place we own is a condo and therefore they can only | >> offer wireless systems. Is this correct?? | >

| > A hard wired system in a condo is problematic, yes. A wireless system is | > much easier. | >

| >

| >>

| >>

| >>

| >> Q4:The independent installer told us that they are not allowed (in | >> Clearwater Florida) to install smoke detector in condo (but they can in | >> town homes). The ADT dealer didn't mention any restriction regarding the | >> installation of a smoke detector. Who is right?? | >

| > Pure hogwash. A monitored smoke detector in addition to the unit | > originally supplied only serves to enhance your personal security. | >

| >

| >>

| >>

| >>

| >> Q5: The installer told me that wireless recessed door sensors are no | >> working well with the Simon 3 system and that I should go with the | >> regular wireless door sensor. Is this correct? | >

| > The installer's being "lazy". The ITI wireless products are amoung the | > best on the market. The recessed contacts take a bit more effort to | > install (you need a bigger drill). | >

| >

| >>

| >> Is there also a big difference in quality between the various sensors? | >> Any brand/model, you would recommend for motion detector or door | >> sensors? | >

| > The difference isn't worth mentioning. You might want to stipulate to a | > "pet proof" motion though. This would help when you're selling your condo | > (as an extra feature). | >

| >

| >>

| >>

| >>

| >> Q6:Any opinion about

| >

| >

| > Nextalarm doesn't do their own monitoring. They farm it out to various | > independent stations across America. I'd suggest investigating a

*local* | > (to you) solution. | |

I don't like the idea of using a keyfob remote disarm your security system. When they first became readily available, I had a customer who wound up having her purse stolen. The keyfob remote clearly identified that it was used to control an Ademco panel. The perp went to her house, disarmed the system and started loading up on goodies in the bedroom. Unfortunately for him, he had left the front door open and a "busy-body" neighbour called the cops. They were waiting for him when he appeared at the front door with two suitcases full of loot. As it happens, this turned out well, but it could have been a whole lot worse. With no sign of break-in, her insurance provider *may* have had reason to deny (or at least delay settlement) on any claim. Use the fob to arm your system, turn on lights, or open your garage door. Use the keypad for disarming your system.

Even worse if they drop it on their driveway on their way out.

"Frank Olson" wrote in message news:Bjilf.56325$Gd6.50536@pd7tw3no... | FG wrote: | > Thanks Frank, | >

| > Your idea of just replacing the main board by a standard vista 20P is good . | >

| > I'll go with ADT and their Custom vista 20P if my company is willling to pay | > the extra stuff needed by their vista 20p to match the simon | > functionnalities : | > - extra 2lines alpanumerical keypad to be able to program the pannel | > (standard ADT keypad is a "fixed english" type) | > - extra VIP phone module to be able to take control of the pannel over the | > phone (extra $160) | > - upgraded power supply to pilot X10 devices ($40-$60) | >

| > Regarding the possibility of ripping off the pannel from the wall (wether a | > Simon 3 or Vista 20p), I had allready planned to | > - put it in a hidden place and have the siren installed in a different room. | > - have a 10sec or even zero delay for the entry zone because I could | > desactivate the alarm using the keychain remote control. | > - leave as a decoy ; ) the old and disfunctionnal Beesafe alarm pannel that | > was installed in all condos. This one is indeed installed in plain sight in | > the entrance and can be neutralized/ripped off in 5 seconds... | | | | I don't like the idea of using a keyfob remote disarm your security | system. When they first became readily available, I had a customer who | wound up having her purse stolen. The keyfob remote clearly identified | that it was used to control an Ademco panel. The perp went to her | house, disarmed the system and started loading up on goodies in the | bedroom. Unfortunately for him, he had left the front door open and a | "busy-body" neighbour called the cops. They were waiting for him when | he appeared at the front door with two suitcases full of loot. As it | happens, this turned out well, but it could have been a whole lot worse. | With no sign of break-in, her insurance provider *may* have had reason | to deny (or at least delay settlement) on any claim. Use the fob to arm | your system, turn on lights, or open your garage door. Use the keypad | for disarming your system.

snip

You are reminding me of Bass more every day. js

Heaven forbid... I'll stop immediately! :-)

Actually just away and stay...

Sorta dumb if you think about it....

message

You noticed that too eh?

I'm his "smarter brother"... Where you been??