contact window

Ok I guess I've got to teach all you guys how to do this.

There's obviously always enough room on the bottom sill to drill a 3/8 inch hole for a recessed switch close to ( but not butt up against) the outside edge of the inside window sill. Drill the hole straight down, not at an angle. Then use a counter sink to ream the edge of the hole so that even though the switch is sitting straight down in the angled sill the switch will sit flush and a little below the angle of the sill..... in a slight recess. You want to drill straight down so the drill bit doesn't come out of the wall before you get to the bay. Also, if it's new construction, and the molding isn't on yet, you'll leave the switch and or the wires exposed to the trim guy. Order your 3/8 contacts without magnets.

Now you take a dowel center punch and set it in the 3/8 hole and bring the sash down so that the dowel punch leaves a mark in the bottom of the sash, directly opposite the center of the hole. This indent will usually wind up somewhere between the weather strip and the inside edge of the sash.

Order 1/4 inch rare earth magnets which will fit between the weather strip and the inside edge of the sash. counter bore the hole ( ie flat bottom bit) on the bottom of the sash between the weather strip and the inside edge of the sash. Even if the indent from the dowel center punch didn't wind up between the weather strip and the inside of the sash, put the magnet there anyway, just lined up with the mark. The rare earth mag will still hold it in. I get Tane rare earth 1/4 inch magnets, only because they're convenient. They have to be cemented in and caulked, because they don't have a center hole.

On the top sash, order your surface contacts without magnets. Drill through the side top of the window as close to the top and sash, as you can. Above the track, where the hole can't be seen, if you can. Sometimes you can or have to drill up, but then you have to caulk/hide the hole. Use a surface mount switch mounted a half to one inch away from the side track. To avoid the magnet from being knocked off when the sashes pass one another, after you've mounted the switch, close the sash and put a mark on the sash where one end of the switch is. Just inside the switch side of the line, drill a counter bore hole for the 1/4 inch rare earth mag as close to the top edge of the sash as you can, without taking a chance that you wont leave enough meat ..... Cement and then cover the hole and magnet with caulking. People usually don't mind the surface mount on the top sash and I use it rather than another recessed, because it saves time.

Been doing it this way for about 4/5years now. It's a little elaborate with a number of steps but if you do it production style, ( perform the same operation on all the windows at the same time) it works great.

I haven't posted this before because I know Jack-off Bass is going to steal it ..... but what the hell.

Reply to
Jim
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Yep...and pray.

I actually used to carry a brace & bit in the old days for when my cordless went dead on that very freekin last contact, the sun's going down and 80 miles from civilization...came in handy.

| > I've also used a 3/8" Forstner bit to slightly recess those rare earth | > mags | > and they come out sweet....but nerve-wracking and time consuming. You may | > want to think on that as well. Careful with that dry wood too, especially | > Pellas they seem to use the dryest splinter-prone wood. You have to say a | > prayer before drill these puppies. | | Always wanted to try a brace and bit on those. Would be easy to control;it's | a bummer when the drill catches and goes in too fast. I just use a variable | speed drill motor on reeeeel low speed. | js | |

Reply to
Crash Gordon

He already did an put a copyright on it.

Anyway...you didn't see the bottom flange that fits into the bottom weather seal groove of the bottom window...maybe Dremel tool time on that.

Reply to
Crash Gordon

Didn't see any dimensions. There's got to be at least a 1/4 inch between the weatherstrip and the inside of the sash ...... No?

But even if there isn't, then you can drill the 1/4 inch hole in the front surface of the sash down near the very bottom of the window and cover it with caulk. When the window is all the way down, it'll be hidden behind the edge of the inside window sill.

Reply to
Jim

No problem. I should have mentioned it but it's easy to snip off 3/8" of the flange. Since it's not part of the sash that won't affect warranty should the window develop a problem later.

That often works but on some modern windows the counter balance employs a braided nylon cord which rides behind a plastic extrusion in the side track. If this should be the case with these particular windows drilling there can wreck the system. They are a royal pain to replace if you cut through the cord.

Nah. They don't take any more time than a conventional, wooden, double-hund window.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

The technique I suggested doesn't require drilling the sash. Considering the cost of the windows, it's a better option than some of the other methods we've tried over the years. You will need to snip off 3/8" of the flange which protrudes from the sill plate but that's a snip... er, snap.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

The problem with this technique is it leaves your wires very close to the inside trim. The finish carpenters and drywall hangers will be shooting nails in that area. You'll want to keep your wires as far from their nails as possible.

There is no such thing as an "inside window sill". The piece of wood that looks like a small shelf along the bottom is called a stool plate. The "window sill" is the sloping piece beneath the sash. It is not the part inside the house.

If it's new construction, you want to be especially careful to avoid drilling close to the stool plate.

No need for that. Order your contacts as complete sets (it'll save you a few dollars). Place the bag of rare earth magnets inside the can of the alarm control panel. They'll be handy when you come back to finish the project.

Be sure to leave a service loop (12-18" of extra wire) beneath each contact. That way if you ever need to replace a failed contact -- say, after a lightning hit -- it's easy to pull the old one out and solder in a new one.

Speaking of soldering, do NOT use "B" connectors inside the walls. They can snag the 3/8" hole, making it very difficult to pull the wire out if you need to do a repair. Instead, solder and tape or (better) shrink-wrap the connections. Stagger your splices by cutting one wire 2" shorter than the other. That way, if you accidentally leave a soler point or if the insulation comes loose, the wires are unlikely to short.

Correct. The problem is that the wooden piece at that location is roughly 5/16" thick. If the gentleman drills **very* carefully up into the sash at the precise center of that point he will have 1/32" of wood on eithe side of the hole. Note that he will heed to do this on at an angle with the wood sincve the bottom of the that piece slopes to conform with the angle of the window sill. Even if he is lucky and doesn't go through the front, destroying the window sash, he may still split the wood while inserting the magnet.

That t4echnique is difficult even for an experienced pro. I would not such an approach to a DIYer or even a young technician.

Tane are the cheapest made contacts on the planet. The companyt was formed by a few people who were let go by Sentrol (now GE Security) some years ago. They used the same shapes and sizes as several popular magnetic contacts made by their former employer. Unfortunately, they failed to copy anything else, such as the manufacturing techniques.

Tane has sent me samples of their contacts. Upon examination and testing, I threw them out and opted not to buy from them.

Consider using rare earth magnetic contacts on top as well. The "button" shaped magnets that come with GE Security (Sentrol) contacts will easily fit on top of the sash, near the middle, without making any holes in the sash.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

The dimension there is 5/16". Subtract 1/4" for your magnet anf that leaves

1/32" on either side of the hole. Without a jig he's very likely to destroy the window. Not only that, the manufacturer may decide that his hole violates the warranty.

No, you can't. Look at the drawing. The magnet will stick out the other side of the wood right where the weather strip protrudes. When he shuts the window it may splinter the bottom of the sash. Even if it doesn't, it will interfere with the weather strip in the groove of the rail.

Note: The horizontal pieces at the top and bottom of the sash are called "rails".

Unless it keeps the window from closing because the weather strip on the sill hits it.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

where'd you find that dimension. I couldn't find it.

Reply to
Don

Your method looks like it removes the weather strip in the area the mag is in and removes the area of the flange...you don't think that's gonna void the warranty too?

Besides I was talking about putting a 3/8" super magnet in that space vertically (or at least trying to) not flat.

| > Crash Gordon wrote: | >> He already did an put a copyright on it. | >>

| >> Anyway...you didn't see the bottom flange that fits into the bottom weather | >> seal groove of the bottom window...maybe Dremel tool time on that. | >>

| >>

| > Didn't see any dimensions. There's got to be at least a 1/4 inch | > between the weatherstrip and the inside of the sash ...... No? | | The dimension there is 5/16". Subtract 1/4" for your magnet anf that leaves 1/32" on either side of the hole. Without a jig he's | very likely to destroy the window. Not only that, the manufacturer may decide that his hole violates the warranty. | | > But even if there isn't, then you can drill the 1/4 inch hole in the | > front surface of the sash down near the very bottom of the window and | > cover it with caulk. | | No, you can't. Look at the drawing. The magnet will stick out the other side of the wood right where the weather strip protrudes. | When he shuts the window it may splinter the bottom of the sash. Even if it doesn't, it will interfere with the weather strip in | the groove of the rail. | | Note: The horizontal pieces at the top and bottom of the sash are called "rails". | | > When the window is all the way down, it'll be | > hidden behind the edge of the inside window sill. | | Unless it keeps the window from closing because the weather strip on the sill hits it. | | -- | | Regards, | Robert L Bass | | =============================>

| Bass Home Electronics | 4883 Fallcrest Circle | Sarasota · Florida · 34233 |

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

Crash, he doesn't know what he's talking about, much less what he's doing. Just pat him on the head and go on about your business. js

Reply to
alarman

1/32" on either side of the hole. Without a jig

decide that his hole violates the warranty.

On the manufacturer's PDF file the several of the dimensions are listed. I expanded it to full page size, printed it and used a micrometer to calculate the rest of the dimensions. It's accurate to within .001 inches. I compared several other dimensions to make sure that the drawing is to scale and they came out true.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

NO. I've done it that way for many years without any hassles from manufacturers. They get bent out of shape if you drill the sash though. Before Sentrol (now called GE Security) came out with rare earth magnets we used to lay a 1/4" bar magnet on it's side in the groove of the bottom rail. That required cutting out 1.5" of the weather strip and that never even raised an eyebrow.

The button shaped magnets are fine for this. The longer ones have to be laid horizontally but that will require removing more of the weather strip. That's why I like the smaller ones.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

I've only done this a few hundred times. Come anywhere near my head and I'll stomp yours for you, Stevens.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

grassy ass, ameego

Reply to
Don

I'll stomp yours for you, Stevens.

Wooo the big boy blusters....

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Touched a nerve, I guess. js

Reply to
alarman

stomp yours for you, Stevens.

Someone in your shape really shouldn't be looking for a fight.

Reply to
G. Morgan

I've never had a warranty issue with windows...ever....only brought it up because it's been mentioned.

| Bass Home Electronics | 4883 Fallcrest Circle | Sarasota · Florida · 34233 |

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

I'll stomp yours for you, Stevens.

It'd give him an excuse tho

"I...I coulda beat him if it wasn't for this darn cancer...."

Reply to
Mark Leuck

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