Compass Software

Just the Fax Jack, Just the Fax.

| > I know. The cops seem to be busy with other things though. | > js | | Next on COPS... | | "FREEZE AND DROP THAT FAX LINE NOW!" | | Make sure you are wearing shorts, no shirt and be half drunk please | |

Ha ha, reminds me of his famous "Claude Cooper copper clapper caper." js

Next on COPS...

"FREEZE AND DROP THAT FAX LINE NOW!"

Make sure you are wearing shorts, no shirt and be half drunk please

Because Campbell actually says that SFB is an OK guy and thinks that it's everybody else who causes the problems.

Crash at least knows what's going on, and occasionally let's his opinion be known but (mostly) chooses to stay out of it.

But you've proved my opinion of you to be accurate ....... again.

IMO....I would say that Jim's opinions of RLB, are much more accurate than yours. Of course I have met RLB.....

Maybe it's too cold up there in Canada for you to see through all the snow........

Norm Mugford

RLB is not the innocent victim that your statements tend to portray him as, to say he "gets offensive when attacked in the most vicious ways" or to state that there is an "ongoing battle on this ng between the brick and mortar dealers and the online dealers" (from a previous post)is misleading, and doesn't come close to telling the whole story. RLB is a pariah in the RW, this group and any other group he has infected due to his spiteful behaviour and actions, not his profession.

RLB answers DIYers question but in the process he invariably attempts to belittle and to cast the whole industry as dishonest and incompetent, Jim also helps many DIYers and in the process sometimes attempts to belittle RLB, tell me whats the difference ?

RLBs attacks on others are no less vicious and spiteful than some of the flames directed at him,the only real difference being the choice of language. I find Jims language much less offensive that RLBs deceitfulness, hypocrisy and outright lies ond certainly less offensive than the apparent naivety displayed by some regarding RLBs actions.

Doug L

R.H.Campbell wrote:

No, I don't say RLB's an OK guy, nor do I say he is the monster you say he is. I simply don't know; I have never met the man. I judge people on the newsgroup by what they say and how they act in relation to answering questions etc on security matters. That's all any of us are here for.

I see him answering people's questions in a straightforward way, although like all of us, he is not always correct. He gets offensive when attached in the most vicious ways by you and others. His motives for being on the newsgroup are to help others and to sell his wares to DIY'ers, but at least he answers DIY questions without making them feel stupid or belittling them for their lack of knowledge. You on the other hand,often fill the newsgroup with hateful, ignorant crap that does nothing to assist anyone here. So when it comes right down to it, who's more of a problem here...

To use your own words, "you've proved my opinion of you to be accurate...again"

RHC

Look Frank, I am not defending the guy, nor am I going to attack him for his statements. I simply don't see it as useful for the newsgroup for half of the posts here to be simply "pissing in each others ears". But I'm sure he's just as hard headed as the rest of us in this group. I too see the jabs and criticisms of our industry and there are times I wish he'd learn to use a little discretion in his responses. But then if I was attacked at every turn, I might respond the same way. Sometimes he goes overboard, (even for me), but in a lot of his comments regarding our industry, a lot of the time, he is not too far off the mark....dealers who's only interest is in "flipping paper", dealers who unethically lock customer owned boards, and SOME of the"big box" companies and mass marketers who cheapen the whole market for all of us through atrocious and essentially dishonest dealer programs and shoddy, minimalistic installations. And I could go on and on...

He too falls victim to the all too easy tendency to generalize about problems and in the process make them seem more prevalent than they may be (and I am just as guilty of that too although I do try to be especially careful in this regard).

And as for Jim, I don't question his willingness to answer DIY'ers, nor his willingness to respond, although I don't see most of them simply because for the moment, I have him blocked. But the bottom line is NOTHING that any of you guys say will change his approach. Make your statement of objection in a factual way and then let it go. Readers can form their own opinion of the worth of his statements or not. Factual criticism will always come across as more convincing than a diatribe of hateful comments. But those same readers can clearly see the total LACK of worth of some of the more hostile statements you guys make in response, which only serves to make you look like "the bad guys". The whole thing comes across sometimes as a bunch of kids in a school yard fighting about trivia and in the process does nothing for our image as professionals.

We can keep this thread going until the cows come home, but I absolutely refuse to engage in the escalating stupidity that goes on here. If you see that as wearing "rose coloured glasses" so be it. I stated my purpose in being part of this newsgroup some years ago, and it hasn't changed and won't change...

So press on....

RHC

"Frank Olson" wrote in message news:%M75f.230167$tl2.93489@pd7tw3no...

Really?? Man, Rob... You need to clean your glasses. Or take off those rose coloured ones you're wearing.

There are several "problems" with respect to the way he answers questions. Which Newsgroup have you been reading??

I haven't "attached" him for months. He's been as "vicious" as always. I suppose pointing this out isn't something you're interested in, though.

No. He doesn't belittle them. He only belittles the trade, installers, the "IB", and the "big box" companies... Oh... I forgot... You do the last part too... :-))

When has Jim failed to answer a DIYer's question?? Where has he ever belittled one?? Seems to me his "focus" has been responding to RLB's numerous "protestations of innocence" and more than a few "jabs" at the trade. There are many professionals that post here. I quite frankly don't see any other online store working the group like RLB does. I think he takes a perverse pleasure in pushing our buttons. "How high can I get the IB to jump??" Sound familiar?? Ever notice how peaceful it gets around here without him?? Ever notice what starts off the "kicks and giggles"?? Is it Jim?? Me?? Mike?? Graham?? If he does come back, sit back and watch how long it takes for him to use Jim's (or mine) name in one of his responses. See how long it takes for him to link a response to one of the "buy me" buttons on his website, or to use one of his rather numerous and colourful turns of phrase designed to "put down" the trade...

R.H.Campbell wrote:

R.H.Campbell wrote:

Ok Bobby boy,

Let's get it on.

You want to tell me who it is that's the cause of all ..... THAT IS

You tell me, is it ok to call someones employer and tell lies about them? Is it ok to go to a competitors website and tell lies about them? Is it ok to steal someones post and information and claim it as their own? Is it ok to lie about being in the installation business just to fool end users into buying from him? Is it ok to belittle people for using wrong words or berating them because they have different way of doing things? Is it ok to berate the installation trade so that he can sell his equipment? AD INFINITUM And how does all that that son of a bitch has done to people, compare to me using profanity and objecting to his arrogant and depraved and unacceptable conduct? And how is that you don't object to others who openly object to him? Certainly Frank posts just as much or more objections than I do. So is it simply the profanity that sticks in your craw? We'll good. Because that's the very reason I do it. I know damn f****ng well that it makes EVERYONE uneasy and that it makes this group look bad to others coming here. And that's EXACTLY the same thing that Shit for Brains does. What I do here is done willfully and purposely, in the same manner as he does what he does. AND WHY NOT? Will the group be any better with just HIM fouling it up? If you object to me, and not him, you'd damn well better get ready for more of this, because it's NEVER going to go away as long as he continues to be the nasty bastard that he is. And ANYone who objects to me had damn well better object to what he does also.

"This is an Alt Newsgroup. No one has any control what goes on here or have any say in what anyone does. And if you don't like it ....... you can leave"

When he stops taking that attitude when his bad conduct is criticized, then so will I.

Got it? If not ..... it's basicly, ..... If you can shut your yap about what he does, you'd damn well better keep what you think about what I do ..... to yourself also.

If not ... Unlike .... how you've become accustomed to Fat Ass's conduct, I'll be very happy to continue this dialog in the "flowery vernacular" that I hope you'll never become accustomed to ...... forever

And if you'll notice ...... You should take note of exactly WHO it was that got your name and my response, involved with this. Does it look like a familiar scenario to you? You simply got sucked in ........ again.

Toodles......

You guys are gonna give yourselves ulcers, or heartattacks.

"Jim" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... | | R.H.Campbell wrote: | > No, I don't say RLB's an OK guy, nor do I say he is the monster you say he | > is. I simply don't know; I have never met the man. I judge people on the | > newsgroup by what they say and how they act in relation to answering | > questions etc on security matters. That's all any of us are here for. | >

| > I see him answering people's questions in a straightforward way, although | > like all of us, he is not always correct. He gets offensive when attached in | > the most vicious ways by you and others. His motives for being on the | > newsgroup are to help others and to sell his wares to DIY'ers, but at least | > he answers DIY questions without making them feel stupid or belittling them | > for their lack of knowledge. You on the other hand,often fill the newsgroup | > with hateful, ignorant crap that does nothing to assist anyone here. So when | > it comes right down to it, who's more of a problem here... | >

| > To use your own words, "you've proved my opinion of you to be | > accurate...again" | | | | R.H.Campbell wrote: | > No, I don't say RLB's an OK guy, nor do I say he is the monster you say he | > is. I simply don't know; I have never met the man. I judge people on the | > newsgroup by what they say and how they act in relation to answering | > questions etc on security matters. That's all any of us are here for. | >

| > I see him answering people's questions in a straightforward way, although | > like all of us, he is not always correct. He gets offensive when attached in | > the most vicious ways by you and others. His motives for being on the | > newsgroup are to help others and to sell his wares to DIY'ers, but at least | > he answers DIY questions without making them feel stupid or belittling them | > for their lack of knowledge. You on the other hand,often fill the newsgroup | > with hateful, ignorant crap that does nothing to assist anyone here. So when | > it comes right down to it, who's more of a problem here... | >

| > To use your own words, "you've proved my opinion of you to be | > accurate...again" | | Ok Bobby boy, | | Let's get it on. | | You want to tell me who it is that's the cause of all ..... THAT IS | *****ALL**** the people in this group of going after Shit for Brains | Bass? Is it me? Is it YOU? Is it anybody but that stupid son of a bitch | himself? What is it that makes everyone ....... THATS EVERYONE BUT | ***** YOU ***** dislike him. I never started ONE FUCKING THING with | him. He's the one who ALWAYS starts it and it always IS him. There are | people here who say that ignoring him is the way to go. But yet they | themselves don't ignore him. YOU can ignore him if you want to. I say, | that if you ignore someone like him you're simply saying that what he | does is ok. And it's NOT ok. IT IS NOT OK!!!!!!! If no one ever stands | up and says that what he is doing is wrong then it becomes acceptable. | YOU can be one of those do-nothing people ..... but I'M NOT! And if you | want to condone what he does, that's YOUR f****ng problem. I really | don't give a shit WHAT you think or WHAT you do. I'll simply use that | FAT ASSHOLEs method. I'LL do what ever the hell I want in this group | and you don't have any say in what I or anyone does here. If you don't | like it, you can leave. Sound familiar? Something that I NEVER would | have EVER considered saying in this or ANY where, prior to coming | across that nasty, arrogant son of a bitch. And if you can accept that | attitude from him, you've got to accept it from anybody else who | chooses to do the same things he does. Or, ..... are you really that | proud to be the hypocrite that I think you are? And I'll continue | doing what I do and how I do it, simply to exemplfiy EXACTLY what that | rotten bastard does to everyone in this group, by his conduct. If you | can accept all of the shit that that cocksucker hands out in this group | and what he's done and does to other people here and you can't tolerate | what ***** I ***** do, then you've got to re-evaluate what what your | sense of values are. I've NEVER done a FRACTION of the things to people | here, that HE's done. And the fact that I purposely use foul language | to bring my point home about what's tolerable and what's not, and you | take exception to that ..... but not HIS depravity, .... certainly | shows that YOU'VE got some twisted sense of values. Why is it that | profanity brings you out of your stupid naive little shell, whereby you | think you have good reason to openely object to what **** I **** do, | but with ALL of the dirty rotten things that that f****ng bastard has | done to people .... for YEARS AND YEARS you never make comment? Why is | what I do here, purposely and intentionally, any different than what | you tolerate from him? A little confused about what's right and wrong | Bobby boy? I'd say so. | | You tell me, is it ok to call someones employer and tell lies about | them? | Is it ok to go to a competitors website and tell lies about them? | Is it ok to steal someones post and information and claim it as their | own? | Is it ok to lie about being in the installation business just to fool | end users into buying from him? | Is it ok to belittle people for using wrong words or berating them | because they have different way of doing things? | Is it ok to berate the installation trade so that he can sell his | equipment? | AD INFINITUM | And how does all that that son of a bitch has done to people, compare | to me using profanity and objecting to his arrogant and depraved and | unacceptable conduct? And how is that you don't object to others who | openly object to him? Certainly Frank posts just as much or more | objections than I do. So is it simply the profanity that sticks in your | craw? We'll good. Because that's the very reason I do it. I know damn | f****ng well that it makes EVERYONE uneasy and that it makes this group | look bad to others coming here. And that's EXACTLY the same thing that | Shit for Brains does. What I do here is done willfully and purposely, | in the same manner as he does what he does. AND WHY NOT? Will the group | be any better with just HIM fouling it up? If you object to me, and not | him, you'd damn well better get ready for more of this, because it's | NEVER going to go away as long as he continues to be the nasty bastard | that he is. And ANYone who objects to me had damn well better object to | what he does also. | | "This is an Alt Newsgroup. No one has any control what goes on here or | have any say in what anyone does. And if you don't like it ....... you | can leave" | | When he stops taking that attitude when his bad conduct is criticized, | then so will I. | | Got it? | If not ..... it's basicly, ..... If you can shut your yap about what he | does, you'd damn well better keep what you think about what I do ..... | to yourself also. | | | If not ... Unlike .... how you've become accustomed to Fat Ass's | conduct, I'll be very happy to continue this dialog in the "flowery | vernacular" that I hope you'll never become accustomed to ...... | forever | | And if you'll notice ...... You should take note of exactly WHO it was | that got your name and my response, involved with this. Does it look | like a familiar scenario to you? You simply got sucked in ........ | again. | | Toodles...... | | >

| > "Jim" wrote in message | > news: snipped-for-privacy@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... | > >

| > > Mark Leuck wrote: | > >>

| > >> Why aren't you ragging Crash for not slamming RLB like you do RH | > >> Campbell? | > >

| > > Because Campbell actually says that SFB is an OK guy and thinks that | > > it's everybody else who causes the problems. | > >

| > > Crash at least knows what's going on, and occasionally let's his | > > opinion be known but (mostly) chooses to stay out of it. | > >

| > > But you've proved my opinion of you to be accurate ....... again. | > >

| | | | | >

| > RHC | >

| > "Jim" wrote in message | > news: snipped-for-privacy@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com... | > >

| > > Mark Leuck wrote: | > >>

| > >> Why aren't you ragging Crash for not slamming RLB like you do RH | > >> Campbell? | > >

| > > Because Campbell actually says that SFB is an OK guy and thinks that | > > it's everybody else who causes the problems. | > >

| > > Crash at least knows what's going on, and occasionally let's his | > > opinion be known but (mostly) chooses to stay out of it. | > >

| > > But you've proved my opinion of you to be accurate ....... again. | > >

I doubt Honeywell cares who has the software since the CSID secures the hardware (if used properly).

If I own my alarm system, I expect to be able to Program my alarm sytem. If software is Required to program it, then the software should be readily available.

I put a Vista 20P in with wireless sensors with a non-alpha keypad (keypad is also the wireless receiver). What I didn't realize until after it was all installed was that I could not configure the wireless zones without an alphanumeric keypad because of it's Menu-Mode programming. I HAD to use the software to program my wireless zones (maybe someone else knows how to do it without the software, but I couldn't find it in the manual). For this reason, the software should be available to the user/owner/whoever is programming the panel, regardless of their profession or skill level (if it's your panel, you should be allowed to screw it up, and pay for a service-call afterwards to have a professional fix it). You just don't sell hardware to someone and then tell them they can't have the software to program it or you are going to charge them extra to make-it-work (unless it was known up-front before purchasing the hardware). Just because you are not an Alarm Professional doesn't mean you can't do it as-good if not better then an Alarm Professional. I don't have a Computer Sciences or Electronics Degree but know a lot more about computers and electronics then any fresh graduate from DeVry does (which maybe isn't saying much about myself).

Of course, if the software was NOT required to program the panel, then it should be Sold/Given to professionals without necessarily being available to the general public. The only reason to prevent just anyone from downloading the software without some-sort of login is to prevent a lot of unnecessary Technical Support to End-Users trying to download their own panel. In this case, If the End-User can get to the (free) download software and find a modem that works with it, then they are probably worthy of having it. It's a way to let Honeywell filter out the unwanted non-pro's from calling tech-support. If they didn't password-it then they would get flooded with homeowners thinking they can download the software and change user codes on their panels with the software.

In no way am I condoning giving out the username/password (publicly) for Honeywell's Dealer Support area, but at the same time I think the individuals who are competent not-professionals should be able to have a crack at it as long as they realize they can't call Honeywell for Tech Support.

So, if you want to give out a username/password, do it in a PRIVATE message to prevent people who wouldn't be going there in the first place from going there just because they have a username and password now and want to hack.

Nah, don't worry Crash ! I don't let anything like this bother me as you may have gathered by now. Jim gets pretty vociferous and very angry when it comes to some things I say, but mostly it's RLB that REALLY lights his fuse !! But he's OK when he isn't spitting mad, and his mouth's revved up in neutral....:))

I wonder where RLB is anyway; it's not like him to just diappear without letting us know his plans...:))

RHC

Could be he opened his smart mouth in public and got his clock cleaned. js

Frank, I've stated my position, and why I'm here, and frankly that's the end of it. I have no wish to argue semantics with you vis a vis who did what to whom. I can't control anyone on this newsgroup any more than you or Jim, although I think your approach to dealing with what you see as RLB's sins makes far more sense than Jim's. Personally, I can't remember a single instance when I have either attacked OR defended RLB on anything. However, if I happen to agree or disagree with him on technical points, I say so, as does he, if he disagrees with me. You get what you give in life, and that goes for a virtual newsgroup as well. It's not a personal thing; it's just a newsgroup.

As for our industry and some of the shady things that go on, I think perhaps you might have slightly rose coloured glasses on, or things are much better out West than they are around here. If you guys would spend less time obsessed with RLB, and focus on some of the real problems we all face in the industry, things would run smoother (and the posts would be more useful to readers). And believe me, foul language doesn't bother me in the least, but there are many readers who do take offence to it. Nor does it add anything to the newsgroup.

As for where RLB is now, I don't know any more than you do. I won't bother to send him an e mail because he never answers them. You have better luck getting hold of him from within the newsgroup than you do by e mail.

RHC

"Frank Olson" wrote in message news:Eyz5f.242640$tl2.62031@pd7tw3no...

Sure they do, they have explicit statements that the software is intended for professional dealers

No it should not, GM/Ford/Toyota programs the computer chip for your car but they are not under any obligation to provide you with the ability to reprogram it, the method to do so does exist however they do not approve of doing it yourself. They cannot control the outcome of your downloading a panel nor can they control you downloading someone elses panel therefore it is not for you.

They don't make Compass available for end users although they now have a package for end users that will allow changing codes etc but not panel programming, it doesn't yet support the 20P

No you didn't, the installation manual clearly states an alpha keypad is required which btw will also program the sensors.

Let me ask you this, if you cannot find out what is required to program or how to program zones in a Honeywell panel after reading the manual why would Honeywell or ANYONE trust you with software?

Again it's clearly noted in the installation manual that an alpha keypad IS required and it goes into great detail how to program sensors and you couldn't figure it out therefore its up to Honeywell to make software available????

Again not my GM/Ford/Toyota statement.

Thats okay, DeVry is about 3 miles away from me and I'll bet many of them won't know jack about how to work Compass

It already is, it appears you do not know how to properly keypad program the panel

This is the likely scenario. I bet he's got his jaw wired shut and he's eating thru a straw.

I'm reminded of that scene in "Wallace and Grommit" where someone yells "Duck!", and Wallace responds with "Where?" and almost gets flattened.

No. But you let him carry on with his unprovoked attacks. I haven't flamed him once in almost a year now. I've simply been asking for proof for his many statements of "supposed fact".

Interesting. You say you recognize what Robert does and don't approve, but you keep "out of it" and let him run rough-shod through the group. Forget ethics. Forget the FAQ. Perhaps we should change the name of it to Alt.Bass.Burglar.Alarms.Tech .

But you don't *say* anything...

Let's wait and see, shall we?? Let's see who "casts the first stone" (makes the first derogatory remark) on his return (if he returns, that is).

Which you frequently do. I agree that there are shady dealers out there, but they are in fact far fewer than either you or RLB keep going on about. I was working for Chubb when ADT introduced the "low down/zero down" systems they were responding to a trend in many local markets that was putting downward pressure on the actual install. Chubb was always priced "high" and it was tough selling a $4000.00 system in a residential market that averaged $1500.00 for the same equipment. Was Chubb "gouging"?? Are they still in business?? How many of the local firms that we were competing against are still around?? I know of six (and they all operate their own monitoring stations, charge between $70 and $90 per hour and markup equipment by at least 50%). The rest are "history".

Careful?? Hardly!! When Robert frequently tries to turn the discussion to any of the aforementioned subjects, you're always quick to jump right in and defend him. Even though you know that many of the practices he rants against aren't as prevalent as he (and you) make them out to be...

Then you've missed all the positives Jim's contributed in an effort to "weed out" what you consider "hateful, ignorant crap". Let me ask you... How do you consider some of Robert's responses?? The ones where he outright *LIES* about people, or infers by innuendo that they're "on drugs", are "pedophiles", and "child beaters"... When have I ever seen you respond by placing him on your "ignore list"?? Do four letter words in this group offend you?? I think you're in the wrong industry if they do... Perhaps you should open a bookstore.

Agreed. But how do you deal with an individual that ignores all the rules, posts passwords to security manufacturer's sites, sells *dealer* software to anyone with a valid credit card?? Who ignores netiquette and ethics?? Who "revels" in his ability to create mayhem and then turns around and accuses the participants here that respond of being DIY unfriendly?

Which is exactly why I've decided not to respond in this fashion. I've asked for proof of his statements. Seems to me that's working about as well as Jim's efforts...

So let's "press on"... Would you ignore shoddy work from one of your employees?? Would you stand by and say nothing if they were engaged in the kind of discussions Robert starts in front of your customers?? Have you noticed how much more peaceful the group is when he's *not* around?? Have you noticed how everyone here naturally follows a set of guidelines even though a number of them have never even seen the Group's FAQ?? The participants here are professionals. They don't need some guy that runs a mail-order store coming in to tell them they're all a bunch of crooks because they "overcharge" for services. Some of us actually run brick and mortar security businesses, pay Provincial Sales Tax, Worker's Comp, Insurance, Office, actually *stock* inventory, have four (or more) vehicles on the road, etc.

I'm of the opinion that something has happened to Robert that he didn't forsee (in other words, it's not a vacation or planned absence). I've never wished the man "ill", and any attempt at reasoning with him when we were on friendly terms has always resulted in more flames from him. That's what I meant by you're wearing "rose coloured specs". You frequently tend to ignore what Robert's posted and focus on the response, which I must admit looks like it goes "over-board" *in the moment*, but when put into the context of "the big picture", perhaps isn't. You've been here long enough to know.

Why not email him and find out?? I would, but I've been expressly forbidden to correspond with him personally.