Wireless receiver - computer problem?

You've gotta live in a pretty small house.

It means, to put the receiver ........ that doesn't mean the main panel ..... away from any source of interference. Put it in a closet .... as close to middle of the house as possible. Second floor ..... if possible. Not being able to do that doesn't mean that you WILL have problems. Just try to avoid it .... if possible. Also try to avoid putting it or transmitters near large metal objects or mounting them ON metal objects. Best thing to do is a test run. Pick a spot for the receiver, take a transmitter and put it at each opening that you are going to use a transmitter and trip the test unit. Look at the signal strength. Do this for each opening. There's usually a couple of locations at each opening that a transmitter can be mounted. A difference of a few inches is usually sufficent to find acceptable reception. If you have an unacceptable quantity of weak transmitters, either change the location of the receiver (usually a foot or so will do) or get a second receiver. For any home I do, of average size or above, I always use two receivers. Saves from having to do too much trial and error.

Likely you've got the opinion that wireless systems are just something that you mount anywhere and they're going to work. It may, but chances are, during the lifetime of the system, something is going to change at your home that would throw a boarderline unit into the no reception zone. It's better to make sure duing the initial installation that all units are working at their best so that changes down the line wont affect reliability. Doing any less is exactly the reason many installers think that wireless systems are not reliable. They just aren't willing to do what it takes to make it work.

Yep, small house 680 sq ft.

Bob

Radio is not a secret stuff Bob, behavior is well know by loyal en knowledgeable persons who are apparently not present in this NG.

Wireless alarm system don't have "space" or "military" requirements/qualifications, they are build with low cost and simple relative large band (SAW filters) radio receivers easy to disturb or to be disturbed.. Muzzled voluntary or un-voluntary.

Test them and see by yourself how good they are...

You won't have a problem. just dont listen to -pullshoot...he's our resident wackjob on rf.

Yep, I was just having a little fun there. Sometimes I get bored with all the Bass stuff and begin reflecting on some of the other interesting characters.

Bob

And you have never ever visited any newsgroup asking for free help? Not for you car or for your home? Not for your hobbies and never a question on how to configure your computer system?

Bob

I used to be a commercial broadcast engineer and there were lots of amateurs who would ask for professional advice. I never minded. Guess it depends on the person.

Regards, Bob

That's true. It's a security alarms forum. Any questions about security alarms are pertinent and welcome, regardless if they come from you, one of the IB or a DIYer. Whether you choose to answer any particular question is your choice. I choose to support DIYers because I like doing it and because some of them decide to buy from my online store.

I ran an alarm company for nearly a quarter century and along the way I learned a few things about installing, servicing and monitoring alarms. We also did a fair amount of custom audio / video work, mostly home theaters and multi-room sound systems.

In my way of thinking, the knowledge I gained working in the trade, along with what I learn at trade shows, seminars and studying countless manuals is a marketable asset. YMMV.

Regards, Robert L Bas

I've also been on the amateur side of things. Years ago the pastor of my church asked me to fly two angels as part of our annual "Passion Play". I agreed as long as I would have the final say on safety issues. I'd done some theatrical work and knew how to secure dynamic as well as static loads above the stage, but this was going to be a challenge. The "angels" were teenagers and I didn't want anyone to get hurt.

I checked the library at UCONN, looking for a good textbook on controlling the movement of live actors in the air. There wasn't anything available. Next I contacted a man who did lighting design (my primary theatrical interest) for the Crystal Cathedral in LA. That's a huge church with a renowned passion play and Christmas presentation. Both had flying angels at times so I thought he could help.

He referred me to the man who did their work for them -- a respected professional in the trade named Peter Foy. I called Mr. Foy and his secretary gave me his cell phone number. I called him and he offered to do our project for us. His fee, unfortunately, was more than the entire budget for the play. I explained we weren't in a position to hire him but asked if he would mind sharing some advice.

He offered to help me plan my setup, free of charge. He gave me an equipment list and even suggested vendors who could supply the needed hardware. He spent about 30 or 40 minutes on the phone explaining things to me, knowing full well that I would not be hiring him.

Later I realized who Peter Foy is. He flew Bette Midler in "Witches" (I think) and did countless others, including "Tarzan", "Peter Pan", etc. I followed his instructions and our angels flew beautifully for several seasons until I moved away. As an amateur (DIY) in theater, I'll be forever grateful to a very kind professional. So will about a dozen or so kids who flew over our stage, their parents who watched anxiously and over 20,000 people who came to see our play during those years. It's one of the few things about New England that I miss.

Regards, Robert L Bass

"Robertm" wrote in message news:delpeh$1vgp$ snipped-for-privacy@news3.infoave.net...

The whole "Bass" thing is like watching reruns of I Love Lucy day & night for a year...... I used to chuckle at some of it, but the attacks and his responses are so predictable now it's just boringgggggggggg........... We're all stupid, he's the smartest guy when it comes to alarms, cctv, intercoms, etc. etc.. The response to that, "You're a liar, a cheat, a convicted felon". Funny thing about it all, Bass is an online retailer, not a Security Contractor... It doesn't matter if he's a felon, he's just a retailer... Again, that's spelled "RETAILER", A.K.A. Sales Clerk... He's NO threat to legitimate Security Contractors, none of us would want any of his customers, nor would they want us to do any work for them... I feel sorry for him in a way, I tried the online sales thing myself... My God, providing tech support to the diy clowns was awful, at times it was like try to explain the color red to the blind... When it comes to tech support, Mr. Bass is either very patient, or he doesn't answer the phone much... I don't waste my time providing FREE advice anymore, I can't afford it... In case you diy's haven't noticed, gas is up to $2.79 a gallon in my area... FREE don't fill the tank or my pocket, if you want help programming your DIY system, come paint my kitchen first and do a little yard work, then I'll be more than happy to help you out.......... Uh, on second thought, can you just come by and paint the kitchen for FREE :-)) Thanks in advance.......

Yes.... In the appropriate forum I have asked for advice on technical matters... For example: When I have a question concerning Amateur Radio, I do so in a forum that caters to Amateur Radio Ops... I don't go bothering the Commercial Broadcasting engineers with my questions... Hint: This is not a DIY forum.......... Regards, Russ

I can't help but notice the elevated level of paranoia regarding DIY among some of the professionals. The DIY competition, if that's what one wants to call it, exists in just about every market. Do these alarm pros respect the other trades or are they themselves a DIY. Do they mow their own lawns or do they have a landscape professional? Do they ever work on their own car or do they always bring it to a mechanic. I surely hope they hire a maid, a professional chef and a nanny. If they do any of that themselves, they are threatening someone else's job. If my alarm business had such a tenuous hold on the marketplace that giving a little advice threatened to put me out of business, I'd come up with a better business plan. Perhaps the alarm business is not all that good. When I decided to put in an alarm system, I called every company in the county that was listed in the Yellow Pages. They were all out of business. I then called ADT and another company in an adjoining county. Both wanted to charge me $800 up front, give me two doors and two motions and then charge me $35 a month for monitoring. No fire protection. Two other companies from the big city never called me back. With such a sorry state of affairs, I started to plan my own system. And now someone a million miles away thinks I'm taking business away from him.

Bob

Ah, yes, U-CONN. When I lived in Massachusetts, I volunteered my services at U-Conn's radio station, WHUS. U-CONN had some of the best theatre attractions in the area. I bought season tickets to their plays every year. I left New England in '93.

Bob

"Robertm" wrote in message news:den16t$2nqi$ snipped-for-privacy@news3.infoave.net...

I think that you have it a little skewed, but then this is alt.skewed.alarms anyway. LOL. Most of us here have come up from nothing. I am at the point where I can live fairly comfortably, but when I started I made sales calls off of a motorcycle because I couldn't afford to put gas in my car. I hired my first installer not because I thought he was any good, but because he had a truck.

Given that background. Some started out with more and some with less. You have to understand that time is money. In Robert's case time spent often pays back in sales to DIY clients. Since he only sells equipment it makes sense for him. For me in my early days the last thing I could afford was to waste a lot of time explaining to somebody how to do something for themselves. Now I occassionally drop in and answer a few questions because I have the time to do so, and I pay particular attention to questions from other pros when I drop in because those are the guys who helped me when I needed.it. DIYs have no impact on me at all these days. If I retire from contracting I may start back up an on-line store similar to others. I did it once as an experiment and was doing a couple thousand a month in sales when I shut it down. (As an aside: A simple page with a list of products and prices with a phone number to call and place orders will generate some sales.) My intention was to automate it more fully so I would have to little more than keep the books upto date, but the tech support issues were more demanding and time consuming than I was interested in doing.

Do I work on my own cars. I have. When I couldn't afford to have others do it, or when I needed to fix a proffessional mechanics work. Do I have a housekeeper and a nanny and a guy to maintain my yard. Well actually yes I do, but thats not the point. Most of us worked very hard, studied manuals and read books to get to where we are now. We have had lots of people who couldn't understand that ask for free help when we really needed to make a sale so we could pay our bills. Our type of knowledge and expertise is just as valuable as an MD is to a doctor or an MBA is to a corporate business manager That type of investment deserves to be rewarded and the knowledge and expertised paid for.

Now don't go getting on your high horse. I do occassionaly help people out. When I choose to. Nobody DESERVES free proffessional help. They can ask for it, and if the pro says no, go away, or sure I'll help then that is their right. The person asking should be more thankful than they often are and certainly shouldn't act like they deserve it. When a pro helps you out with something they aren't just doing something for you they are taking time away from their own interests, profits, and families to help you. They are taking money out of their own pocket even if they would never get the sales from you anyway. They could be spending time talking to somebody who will spend moeny with them. They could be fishing. They could be spending time with their family.

All that being said, I don't know many professionals who don't do a lot of a free stuff for other people. Every doctor I know does things to help out poorer families in their practice. My wife told me stories about getting paid by poor farm families in butchered meat rabbits in the first few years she was in practice. I helped (advise more than anything) the local independent physicians association roll over profits from their non-profit organization to create a scholarship fund for local kids interested in going into medical fields. Not just docotors, but nurses and technicians as well. Every business manager or owner who works with Rotary or Elks or JayCees or whatever to help with their charitable works is taking their professional talents, knowledge, and skills to the table. They are doing what they do for free, but because they choose to. Not because somebody told them they have to.

So a DIY who demands or appears to demand the assistance of professionals should understand that some people will probably help them, but they do so by choice. There are a lot of other places they could spend their time either on themselves or on their communities. They are taking time out of their own life and money out of their own pocket to do so.

There is a class of DIYer though that I feel does deserve some help from us professionals. The guy who paid fair price for an installation and got screwed. Screwed is a relative term of course. The guy who got a free system and wants to take it over himself did not get screwed. He is trying to steal from the installing company. I am thinking more the guy who actually paid for equipment and labor to have a system installed, and has problems the original installer can't or won't fix.

I get calls from time to time from people who want to save money by buying their own components. Sure, but I'll charge by the hour and not guarantee anything. It will probably cost them more in the long run. I also get calls from people who want me to sell them a switch or a sensor. Ok, but its just a sensor. It doesn't entitle them to have me come out and troubleshoot their installation for them. I deserve to be paid for my time just like anybody else. 3 dollars profit on a motion sensor doesn't pay for the gas in my truck to drive across town. Do you want to DIY. Ok. that's fine. As somebody interested in DIY you would probably never be willing to pay for my services anyway. If you ask me for help with a problem I'll probably even take a few minutes of my time to answer your question. If you then proceed to ask me a million questions and demand detailed explanations of what wire to put where you are imposing. If you need that much help you probably shouldn't be doing a DIY installation. At the very least you should probably contact somebody more directly who caters to DIYs. That of course is the flip side of helping anybody. Often they then latch onto you and act like you owe them something. I'm not saying its wrong. Its just human nature. Like stopping in a parking lot to jump start a dead battery for somebody. When you find out the car still won't start becuase its majorly screwed up and barely made it that far in the first place you will find its difficult to walk away and hte person you tried to help isn't thankful but is a little bit upset because you didn't stay to help more.

The nice part of usenet is you can ask a question and I can answer it, make a wise ass remark, or ignore it as I choose.

Thanks. I wasn't really trying to sell myself, but explain why some folks get tired of answering DIY questions.

You might consider asking around. There are usually afew companies who cater to customers who want attention to detail. They will charge more for their time, but...

Yep, and for the most part I really like it. I can ride my motorcycle all year around although this time of year only at night. LOL. We also have agreat fishery on the river, and I spend a lot of time fishing out of Fisher's Landing.

Its all a matter of perspective I suppose. Yuma is one of the fasest, if not the fastest, growing communities in the country. Home prices have more than trippled in the last en years, and good builders are a year out on completeing new homes. Even chintzy builders have more work than they can handle right now.

Nope, with trees and grass comes rain and snow and mud. I've broken to many things to ever be comfortable living somewhere it gets really cold.

If I want to see trees I can drive up to Prescott, or the Lagunas, or take advantage of my campground membership over on Oak Creek.

I did a little work across the border. Got my FM-3 and installed some video cameras for El Toro Mexico on behalf of El Toro USA. I always found the terrain and the people and the farms interesting, and I don't even like people in general. LOL.

That's a pretty good analogy of it. Unfortunately, as American's, and humans, we are sometimes born and bred to believe the world is about some kind of get rich quick scheme. We always tend to be re-active, instead of pro-active. We have a tendency, more often than not, to believe what we hear, until we see differently. Problem is, most tend to not even look, or even pay attention to their surroundings. The ones that do, are simply the minority. It's easier to replace values, with money these days. There's nothing wrong with the DIY'er, as a human, damn near everyone on the planet can easily correlate initially, the possible savings, and efficiencies. Your liabilities for your actions are self induced, and self contained. Most people don't wish to be responsible for their actions. This is one of the reasons, which can be seen, why there are more employees than employers in the world. Professionals, assume liabilities for others. DIY'ers, assume they will save money. The difference is what you, personally value, and the risks involved with those decisions.

sorry for the rant....

What you say makes a lot of sense. Too bad you don't live in my area, I'd have hired you to do the work. The problem is, I'm am electrical engineer and I know what good and bad work looks like so maybe that's why I wouldn't be happy with the sloppy work they do around here. You really live in Yuma? That place is the pits. There's more scenery on the moon. Six years living in AZ and working across the border. I couldn't take that any longer. From my perspective AZ was nothing but cactus, sand, rattlesnakes, scorpions and black widows. Don't you get lonesome to see trees and grass? Or do those sand dunes up on I-8 satisfy the need to see scenery?

Bob

You're right sir ! I'm not sure why our newsgroup seems to give that impression, but I think it has more to do with the particular people on this newsgroup than the security industry as a whole. I've been a company owner / installer / service man in this industry for some 10 years now, and worked previously in middle management of a large corporation for 27 years. So I might be in a position to give you some thoughts from both perspectives.

The DIY market is a tiny percentage of the total security business, and represents NO threat to professional security firms - none whatsoever !! In my limited experience, most DIY installations involve fairly straightforward installations of reasonably simply systems where the homeowner simply has decided to do the work himself to either save money, or avoid restrictive alarm company contractual terms, or even the requirement for monitoring itself. In that sense, all of us are DIY'ers for many things in life. Many alarm DIY'ers are quite competent; many more think they are but aren't, and a minority don't have a clue...their's is simply wishful thinking. Alarm installation is not a difficult job, but it does need some specialized knowledge and even some specialized tools to install, and experience is VERY important to know how to avoid those troublesome things which are not published in any course or manual anywhere. Even within our trade, the difference between a professionally installed system, and one done by a "hacker" is obvious to an experienced eye. Like every trade, the difference is in the details. Unfortunately, those "differences" many times can mean the difference between a system that false alarms a lot, and one that is virtually free of false alarms for the life of the system. It is an unfortunate fact that many people don't value security precautions (including electronic security systems) as an integral and important part of their overall home value. They DO try to do it on the cheap and this rightfully raises the ire of professionals who have seen too much misery caused by the low life that break into homes. So when they get a bit hyper over things, remember this fact....

I used to have a page on my website catering to DIY customers; however, I stopped selling to that segment of the market because the support necessary to hand hold these clients was astronomical. It simply wasn't worth the time spent for the profit made, much as I enjoyed assisting them. Those who do cater to the DIY market must dedicate a lot of time to support in order to keep their clients happy and coming back. Most professional alarm companies deal only with clients who want a reliable, cost effective system that works properly and is supported well over time. Then their clients can get on with the more important things in their life.

One of the other things I AM beginning to conclude is some of the smaller alarm company owners have a very limited knowledge of business practices beyond those they have learned through trial and error to keep their business running for them. However, if anyone suggests there may be different ways to do things - ways that are not in the established order of things (ie: ways that "things have always been done"), they reject them out of hand and can even take hostile offence to them. This inflexibility to examine new ideas and approaches, and sometimes to even understand there are many individual market "segments" in our industry, some requiring quite different approaches, may put them at a disadvantage as the market changes drastically within the next few years. But this constant change and re-examination of procedures is standard fare within large corporations that must always adjust to changing market conditions and times (although their size usually means they are damn slow to do so....)

Unfortunately, a lot of DIY'ers have also been stung by the large conglomerates (and yes, the small companies as well) who have had bad experiences with companies run mostly by cost cutting, bottom line focused "bean counters". I have no sympathy for these types of opportunistic companies; they've make their own bed so to speak by cutting corners in many ways to the detriment of their clients. Minimalistic systems, bottom of the line equipment, phony "free systems", lengthy wait times and exaggerated service costs, restrictive contracts when not called for, inordinate concentration on RMR as a revenue source, and high pressure sales tactics, have all contributed to an erosion of public trust in our industry. Unfortunately, the majority of reputable companies of all sizes become painted with the same brush and suffer somewhat of an uphill battle because of it. But over the longer term, the better companies WILL survive, and even flourish, through the flood of referrals from genuinely satisfied customers. Many of the bad ones thankfully won't, or will survive ONLY because they are diversified enough and large enough to survive attrition rates in that segment of the market they serve. And the better companies will grow by taking over thos unhappy clients of the poor companies.

What does bothers me a great deal about our industry are many of the consumers and their buying habits. Most seem to purchase very spontaneously, often based only on calling the largest ad in the Yellow Pages. Very few take the time to research their purchase and often get caught up in contractual agreements, the terms of which they would NEVER agree to with other purchases of consumer items (such as cellphones). Why this is, I simply don't understand, but it does allow our industry to continue to live in the dark ages when it comes to some practices in the marketing of our products and services !! Without pressure to change from the public, companies won't change on their own. It's an unfortunate fact of life that in the battle between conscience and profits, profit will always win out !!

I would suggest you approach this ng like most do. Dig out the kernels of information from within the piles of dung; judge those who post by the quality of their words, not their accusations or vitriol, make up your own mind regardless of what you are told by anyone, but most of all, don't be afraid to ask your questions, even if you think they may be looked upon as stupid. You'll get ten posts in answer to every question; two will contain useful information, three will give you flack for asking and in some cases, hateful vitriol, and the other five will lead the thread somewhere else totally off topic. Take what is useful and discard the rest!! The only question that should ever be interpreted as stupid is the one you don't ask....

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

"Robertm" wrote in message news:den16t$2nqi$ snipped-for-privacy@news3.infoave.net...

Where is it that you notice this?

Who is it that you believe is thinking that?