Re: Ademco 50P - Unable To Disarm

Thanks for the tip.

The sprinkler waterflow sensor is the only item which uses the term "contact rating" and fortunately, I guess, that number is not included in the 9039.8 mA total.

The only number for 6-28 VDC I could find for the Chemetronics 600 series heat detectors was 1.0 A. But it IS called "electrical rating" which I now take, thanks to you, to be its maximum current-carrying ability. There is no indication of alarm current draw on the detectors themselves. This leaves me up in the air for these two items because none of the literature I found online at their web site or seller sites even mentions any other number for current.

The same seems to apply to the Edwards heat detector.

Although the Acuity glass break figure is called simply "Current", the spec sheet separately lists contact ratings for "Alarm Relay" and "Tamper Switch". So I think the "35 mA max" I included for each of these may be right.

All the other current numbers seem to be correct for the draw/drain when each device is in alarm.

Does this mean I can ignore the heat detectors? If so, my total alarm current, worst case draw should be 6039.8 mA.

I think I still need more auxiliary power?

Thanks.

J Barnes wrote:

I just posted a reply to James Barnes in re "contact / electrical" rating. When I got back online I saw there were two more responses.

It is good to know the heats and waterflow draw nothing.

Yes, this is the NY brownstone.

If you are in New York, I may take you up on your offer. Or perhaps you know someone in this area who is truly competent and would be willing to come into this situation.

I would really like to finish this myself, however, since I seem to be so close. Taking your suggestion re 2 amp secondary power supply, I will research and check with the local suppliers for same. Earlier AlarmSaf and Altronics (Australian?) were suggested so I will look for these in particular.

Right now most of the expanders get their power from the loop extender which, in turn, gets its power via a DC transformer just as the panel does. I gather I will be replacing the loop extender with the new (2 amp) power supply.

Thanks.

Crash Gord> Dood..heats don't draw anything neither does the waterflow switch. >

There is no such thing as a DC transformer.

Don, I don't think your ESL Smokes (

are compatible with the 4297 V-plex extender. The Vista 50 manual goes into some detail on using the extender.

From the Manual, page 3-12:

"Using the 4297 Polling Loop Extender"

"The 4297 Polling Loop Extender may be used to provide additional polling loop current, to extend the polling loop wire run length, and/or to provide individual electrically isolated polling loops."

"DO NOT use the 4197 Polling Loop Extender module with the VISTA-50P/VISTA-50PUL."

From MyWebTech:

"Isolation / Extender Module"

"The 4297 V-Plex Loop Isolation/Extender Module offers dual benefits for commercial applications. As an isolation module, the 4297 allows installers to group selected zones on one loop. For example, fire and burglary zones may be grouped separately; essentially isolating one from another. This isolation feature prevents failure in one loop from compromising the integrity of any other loop. The 4297 Module also gives installers the flexibility to extend system-wide wiring capability, from approximately 4000 ft to 8000 ft., without the added expense of additional hardware or control panels."

"a.. Isolate open and short circuit faults from main V-Plex loop b.. Provides additional V-Plex loop current c.. V-Plex loop isolation between primary and extended loop d.. Fully supervised e.. Separate DC input, no current drain from primary V-Plex loop f.. Monitors DC power input "

Rick C

Don, I don't think your ESL Smokes (

are compatible with the 4297 V-plex extender. The Vista 50 manual goes into some detail on using the extender.

From the Manual, page 3-12:

"Using the 4297 Polling Loop Extender"

"The 4297 Polling Loop Extender may be used to provide additional polling loop current, to extend the polling loop wire run length, and/or to provide individual electrically isolated polling loops."

"DO NOT use the 4197 Polling Loop Extender module with the VISTA-50P/VISTA-50PUL."

From MyWebTech:

"Isolation / Extender Module"

"The 4297 V-Plex Loop Isolation/Extender Module offers dual benefits for commercial applications. As an isolation module, the 4297 allows installers to group selected zones on one loop. For example, fire and burglary zones may be grouped separately; essentially isolating one from another. This isolation feature prevents failure in one loop from compromising the integrity of any other loop. The 4297 Module also gives installers the flexibility to extend system-wide wiring capability, from approximately 4000 ft to 8000 ft., without the added expense of additional hardware or control panels."

"a.. Isolate open and short circuit faults from main V-Plex loop b.. Provides additional V-Plex loop current c.. V-Plex loop isolation between primary and extended loop d.. Fully supervised e.. Separate DC input, no current drain from primary V-Plex loop f.. Monitors DC power input "

My advice, for what it is worth, is to power down and regroup, and hope the board is not damaged. Unhook all zones and expanders, hook up one kp ONLY, default the panel, and see if it will work, then study the manual section on running 4-wire smokes before proceeding.

Rick C

Don, I don't think your ESL Smokes (

are compatible with the 4297 V-plex extender. The Vista 50 manual goes into some detail on using the extender.

From the Manual, page 3-12:

"Using the 4297 Polling Loop Extender"

"The 4297 Polling Loop Extender may be used to provide additional polling loop current, to extend the polling loop wire run length, and/or to provide individual electrically isolated polling loops."

"DO NOT use the 4197 Polling Loop Extender module with the VISTA-50P/VISTA-50PUL."

From MyWebTech:

"Isolation / Extender Module"

"The 4297 V-Plex Loop Isolation/Extender Module offers dual benefits for commercial applications. As an isolation module, the 4297 allows installers to group selected zones on one loop. For example, fire and burglary zones may be grouped separately; essentially isolating one from another. This isolation feature prevents failure in one loop from compromising the integrity of any other loop. The 4297 Module also gives installers the flexibility to extend system-wide wiring capability, from approximately 4000 ft to 8000 ft., without the added expense of additional hardware or control panels."

"a.. Isolate open and short circuit faults from main V-Plex loop b.. Provides additional V-Plex loop current c.. V-Plex loop isolation between primary and extended loop d.. Fully supervised e.. Separate DC input, no current drain from primary V-Plex loop f.. Monitors DC power input "

My advice, for what it is worth, is to power down and regroup, and hope the board is not damaged. Unhook all zones and expanders, hook up one kp ONLY, default the panel, and see if it will work, then study the manual section on running 4-wire smokes before proceeding.

Rick C

I didn't mean to send this 3 times!!!!!!!!!

Damn computers....

Rick C

Jake thought otherwise

ISTR mentioning that... way back... :-)

Get rid of that Dell...

Hey, is it true that if you run 1 amp through a Chemetronics 601, it produces enough heat to trip it? :)

Good thing he put in 15 smokes instead of 15 heats, or he'd need a really big power supply to run them all...;-)

Bass has been strangely quiet, considering a DIYer is involved. I wonder if Bass sold him the parts and told him how to install the job?

- badenov

Oh dear God. You don't think he actually connected four-wire smokes directly to the polling loop, do you?

I'm still trying to figure out what Don really means by "extender" and how he's using it.

Revere aren't quite sure either

Doug

Contact rating for relay or tamper are not what the detector draws, it's the rating of how much current the switch or relay can handle - don't use those ratings for current draw.

| > James | |

I used to be in NY, not anymore though. Altronics is Brooklyn (iirc) not Australia. Either brand is good.

| > Is this that NY brownstone renovation discussed a while back? | >

| > 15 smokes? Man!...I do 7-10000 sq ft houses that don't have that many in | > them...anyway... | >

| > adjusting for some of your errors, you're probably really closer to 2.7 in | > alarm without the sirens, but then again not everything will be in alarm. | > I'd probably go 2 amp aux power...but remember some of this stuff you cannot | > power off an aux power supply, like the smokes, the expanders, the keypads - | > so you'll have to split your load between panel & secondary pwr supply...and | > you'll need to common your gnds too. | >

| > You really should have an alarm tech help you with this now that you have it | > roughed-in. | >

| > BTW...I rent myself out at 125 p/h...travel & food extra. | |

I have this discussion with a friend of mine at least 1x a month. Oye.

| > >Right now most of the expanders get their power from the loop extender | > >which, in turn, gets its power via a DC transformer just as the panel | > >does. | >

| >

| > There is no such thing as a DC transformer. | >

| >

| > -- | >

| > -Graham | | Jake thought otherwise | | |

Jake was like a combination of Jiminex' friendliness, Sabodish's education and Cracker's expertise.

ROFL!!