Energy use in "off mode" with X10 modules and LED light bulbs

Shouldn't be, if you run them as ON-OFF only.

There is sometimes a problem with CFLs flashing every few seconds, due to leakage through an internal resistor in the X10 lamp module. The flashing can be stopped by removing the resistor, which also prevents local control. It is *possible* that the LED-dim problem is related. Ping me if you feel like clipping the resistor.

Another trick to stop the flashing is to parallel the CFL with a 7-watt night-light, which serves to overcome the leakage current. It would be easy enough to try that with the LED lamps too. I have no idea whether it would work ...

Does a specific bulb do that regardless of which X10 unit it's connected to, or does a specific X10 unit cause any bulb to do that?

If Philips says they are non-dimmable, I'd guess they mean "don't do it because a Bad Thing might happen" rather than "it won't work". You might ping them to see if they'll tell you.

Isaac

You can always use an appliance module. Simply all on or all off.

Don.

Yup, but noisy.

Isaac

And still the small "leakage" continues because of the local control sense current. So, the lamp will still light dimly or flicker. I've removed the resistor (plenty of on line sites tell how). If the clicks bother you, you can modify an lamp module to make it a click free appliance module (again several sites show how). I have done this to several modules and they work just fine with CFLs and now LEDs. One such module seems to get stuck in the on state after a short power glitch. I have to then do a clean power cycle to get it back to normal.

There are modern applicance modules that still click loudly? I think I swapped out my last original X-10 module for something programmable and silent at least 10 years ago. You should also be able to program whether the "local on" feature is active, which is usually what wants to pass that small trickle current through the appliance to detect the local switch being toggled. That's the current that is just enough to make a high efficiency light like an LED come on dimly.

The programmable appliance modules I've used, Smarthome, still squirt a current through the appliance (lamp) for the local on/off function. And, as I recall, the current is still present even when the local on/off function is unused. The current for these modules is much smaller than that of regular older design modules, but still can make a string of LED Christmas lights glow dimly, but less than the regular modules.

Ok, good to know. I'd have thought by now that companies making these modules would have dealt with the LED issue, but maybe not. The module has to get power from someplace to operate. The really old X-10 stuff was two wire, it got it's power via a trickle current through the load. With modern three wire modules, I'd have expected that when you turned off the local sense feature, it really did mean do not pass current through the load.

One of the last old style appliance modules I swapped out was for my Christmas Tree lights. It was loud and I had to put a 4W nightlight on the circuit also, otherwise the trickle current from the LED's was enough to trip the local sense and a few seconds after I turned the lights off, they'd come back on. The ICON module that I used next was both silent and the lights stayed off.

To get a lamp module to work with LEDs and CFLs and low-power incandescent, you have to remove components associated with the local control feature.

If you are ok with doing mods to your appliance module, open it up and locate the 100K resistor (brown-black-yellow bands) and the 330K resistor (orange-orange-yellow bands). Chop both out of the unit. Or at least clip one lead of each.

The local control feature won't work, but LEDs and other low-power bulbs will work fine.

This will also reduce the quiescent power drain of the module.

Mr. lxb, Thanks for this info! In other posts suggested snipping a zener which did not help. But please clarify: there are two 330k resistors in the schematic. Which one is the correct one?

Thanks tremendously! Joe

I have the same question! Which 330k resistor?

Here's an easy fix for LED lamp glow (and perhaps flicker) with X10 modules (AM466 appliance modules in particular). Recently I replaced several ou tdoor halogen floodlights with LED units and was was surprised to see that they remained ON (faintly but definitely) even when switched off. I had as sumed that the appliance modules, which click audibly when switched on or o ff and which have no dimming function, were simple relays . . . but it tur ns out that, like the dimmable lamp modules, they emit a small current. Th is doesn't make incandescent or halogen bulbs glow, but it does so with the efficient LED's.

X10 websites show many schemes for modifying the AM466 to defeat this; it r elates to "local control" current, and it involves clipping resistor(s) and /or diodes. Unfortunately, there are many different makes and models of t he unit with different circuit board layouts, and the online plans don't di stinguish among them.

Fortunately, along the way, I saw mention of hooking a small load such as a night light in parallel with an LED lamp to draw away current and eliminat e the glow. This would of course just replace one glow with another, albei t the night lights could be tucked away in the cabinet with my X10 modules. Then I saw mention of using a small AC adapter, e.g. a phone charger, ty pically 1W or less, as the load. One simply plugs a splitter/adapter into the X10 module and then plugs in the LED lamp and the dummy load in paralle l.

I have a whole collection of AC power supplies in different sizes; I tried a couple of the 5V units, which are most plentiful, and mirabile dictu no m ore glow! I ordered several inexpensive USB phone chargers, and alas these didn't solve the problem; they replaced the steady glow with an intermitte nt glow, flickering about 1/sec. Perhaps these use solid state switching r ather than good, old fashioned transformers . . . In any event, I've gone back to the older power supplies, and these work very nicely. It's a simp le plug-and-play solution.

I wonder what principles are involved here, and what dummy load (resistive, inductive, etc.) would be ideal (lowest power, lowest cost)? Would a sim ilar approach work for dimmer modules? I have some dimmer circuits with mu ltiple lamps which will accept LED's as long as one halogen bulb (resistive load) remains. In a dimmer circuit with a single lamp, I wonder what loa d might be plugged into a socket adapter, in parallel with the lamp?