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Keypad Fire Activated??

Different topic.

Have a customer that had a Keypad Fire activated a couple of weeks ago. Did my investigation and signal did come for panel confirmed by Caller ID. History also indicated that a Fire Panic was indeed triggered. System has three(3) keypad and it is not possible to determine which on was triggered.

System installed less than 1 year. Customer did not believe that an employee would have press the button. Keypads are NX-148E's on a NX-8 V2 panel. It was dismissed as a unknown since nothing could be confirmed.

Two weeks later it happens again. This time the people that were on site were not the same as the first time and nobody was near any of the keypads. Customer says that something is wrong with the keypads.

Called tech support that it was said the with over 1 million keypad installed a faulty panic button has never happened or been reported. After much discussion with no resolve I decided to replace all three(3) keypads to keep a customer happy.

Upon removal of one keypad I found the remains of a dead spider. ???????????

Replaced all and re-program and test all ok.

Called tech support and asked about the keypad button operation. The interlaced finger traces on the board are shorted but the back of the buttons by a conductive rubber button. So I asked if the tech would mind popping the case off the board, power up and touch the area for the fire panic to see if it would trip. And if it did not to wet his finger and try again..................................... After a consultation with his boss the decision was that doing so could ruin the keypad and that they would not perform the test. I then asked if a spider could trigger a Fire Panic if it should decide to lick the traces on the board??????

I know it sound stupid but what is a guy in the field to do when he has a problem that can't be easily answered. I start thinking about the bizarre.

I know that the stats say that somebody (human finger) pushed the button but I can't prove it.

So this post should serve a number of purposes.

1) Inform others of a circumstance that could occur and know it has happened before somewhere. 2) Ask for some thoughts on the subject to help with troubleshooting.

So any comments on the above???

BTW A dry or even a wet finger on the board will not trigger the alarm. It takes about 185 to 200 ohms to trigger since that is the value of the conductive buttons. And a dead short will not do it either. I may have to train a spider to lick a circuit board on command. :-)

Thanks for any insight.

Les

Reply to
ABLE_1
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Do spiders have tongues?

Reply to
Crash Gordon

Do chickens have teeth?

Reply to
Matt Ion

A spider licking the traces?? Hahahaha!! Put down the crack pipe.

Double check the programming, you might have something incorrectly reporting a KP panic.

Reply to
G. Morgan

I don't know (today) if spiders have tongues, but I do know that chickens use to have lips. The passing of time and gravity has caused the lips to fall. They are now called waddles.

Reply to
ABLE_1

One small problem. Spiders don't have tongues. However, their bodies do conduct current.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Already thought of that but since I am using Contact ID that is not to be possible. The signal went in as 110-000 Keypad Fire.

Thanks for the thought.

Les

Reply to
ABLE_1

So then next challenge is to catch one and hook up my ohm meter and see if I get about 200 ohms before he rips his legs off. I wonder if matters what species spider??????????

Reply to
ABLE_1

Is the NX-8 v2 on a DSL telecom line? Is a deep notch filter being used? I only ask because we've had a LOT of false alarms on FBII systems using DSL with the standard filters.. When we started using the deeper notch filters the problems stopped. It seems certain tones on DSL reprogram the panels and or trigger panic/fire alarms.. FYI, just a historical observation from us to you..

RTS

i.e. we agree with the others, not a good idea for keypad emergency triggers in commericals even questionable in residentals..

Reply to
RockyTSquirrel

DSL is not involved here.

Please explain Deep Notch Filter or give mfg. or model # vs. Standard Filter.

The reason for asking is that this is a term that I have not heard before.

Thanks,

Les

Is the NX-8 v2 on a DSL telecom line?

Reply to
ABLE_1

I can use the pcb traces on a galaxy alarm keypad with my fingers (without licking them).

Did it earlier today when trying to figure out if one that had arrived had a on board volume control or not.

Reply to
Ken

Thanks for the tip. Just canceled order for those keypads. Thanks much for the help. :-)

Reply to
ABLE_1

phone co filters maybe 10 - 20 db down to just clear the tones from the handset for users. but on some equipment you may need to go 20 -40 db down. the exact amounts I can't bring to memory at the moment.. I'll look in the truck in the morning and see if I can find one with a vendor name on it for you.. I do know that the little inline filter the ph co uses won't even come close to filtering out the tones for our FBII stuff.. and the inline RJ-31 style only do a partly acceptable job.. The ones we use are in a gray weather resistent box, direct wire setup (no plug jacks) for whole house use. Haven't had any problems since we started using-em..

troubleshooting.

Reply to
RockyTSquirrel

My money is still on an employee with fat fingers and tight lips.

Reply to
Crash Gordon

Able_1,

the dsl filter i was talking about is made by Corning Cable Systems LLC P.O.Box 489 Hickory NC 28603-0489 fax 828-325-5060

formatting link
the model we're using is SPS-H70-SR1

hope it usefull for future reference.. RTS

Reply to
RockyTSquirrel

ps...I have had mysterious keypad panics come static discharge

Reply to
Crash Gordon

ps...I have had mysterious keypad panics come static discharge

Reply to
Crash Gordon

Thanks for the input. Very helpful. Do you mind sharing the price tag you would be paying????

Reply to
ABLE_1

Honeywell had problems with some of there 6160Rf keypads firing off by them selves. happened at my sister in laws.

Reply to
nick markowitz

sorry, office personel do all that I understand there available from most dist. not a catalog item though, got-a ask... RTS

Reply to
RockyTSquirrel

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