Any tips for a consumer about to purchase a system & contract?

It's no better here. Those two bitches have a lock on the senate. At least we have Arnold. I watched the Terminator again the other day, all the time thinking, that guy is going to be governor of California.

You think NY is scary... js

Reply to
alarman
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Reply to
Everywhere Man

That's true, Tom, but Bob has found that in the vast majority of cases the alarm company makes out alright because most customers aren't dishonest. Most customers only want good service and, if they get it, they'll stay with the alarm company for as long as they own the property.

Up front or built-in maintenance charges are similar to insurance fees. I have a contract with a local firm to maintain all of the major appliances, as well as my two HVAC systems. Everything but the pool and spa is covered. Last year there was a problem with my oven. Fixed, no charge. This year the freezer died. It was replaced, no charge. Next year I'll keep paying the annual fee of around $600. We have two fridges, a freezer, a complete set of kitchen appliances and (soon) an outdoor kitchen will be added. For me paying a few dollars a month to be certain that everything is covered makes sense.

As to whether any kind of insurance policy is worthwhile, Dire Straits put it best" "Sometimes you're the windshield... Sometimes you're the bug," and "Sometimes you're the Louisville slugger... sometimes you're the ball."

If the client pays his bills on time and your business is thriving, you're not likely to drop him.

For almost any service arrangement, a one year term is reasonable.

That depends on how the client is paying for the system. Almost every system we installed included the offer of a 1-year monitoring contract. The vast majority of clients wanted the service. All but a very few stayed on after the year expired. ear in mind, of course, that most of our clients were in W Hartford and Farmington Valley towns. The average client was high middle to upper class. If your marketplace is a different demographic you may se different results from a similar approach.

Regards, Robert L Bass Bass Home Electronics

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Reply to
news.comcast.net

I'm not saying you should send someone out. I'm only saying that, from thew consumer's POV, there may be a better deal than a long-term contract. Note: I don't consider one or two years "long term."

Note: I don't process orders under $10. You're right, it's a losing proposition.

Reply to
news.comcast.net

If it's a DIYer, he services it himself. Once you've installed a system servicing it isn't all that complicated. However, we're mainly talking about systems monitored by a local alarm company. In those cases, the alarm company performs the service. Their fees for service should coiver their overhead plus a resonable profit margin. No one should work for free. Bob's business model assumes that he can make a profit without charging for service. Not having seen his books but knowing the kind of man he is, I believe him. During th 24 years I ran a small alarm company in CT I charged for service visits after the warranty expired. I offered a two-year warranty with new installations. That worked for me. YMMV.

Our central station used CallerID to verify all incoming signals. On the rare occasion where that happened they caught it on the spot, looked up the correct account and made the dispatch as needed.

True. I can only teach them the correct way to do things. Most people listen but there are always going to be a few who don't. They're the same kind of clients who misuse a professionally installed system, causing problems for the central station and the responding authorities.

When I offered monitoring I also got reports of every alarm and trouble signal, as well as any failure to test. I found I could make better (more profitable) use of my time concentrating on sales so, after 7 years of online sales (some of that time parallel to running the alarm company), I stopped offering monitoring. Now I refer customers to another online provider who I believe is reliable and honest. I believe you know him. :^)

I have occasionally encountered a DIYer who hired a pro to finish up for him. It's rare but it happens.

You don't know me as well as you think. Sure it happens.

Most of the time competent DIYers who *listen* can indeed do a competent job. Better than a pro? That depends on which DIYer and which pro. I say what I believe based on many years of experience. It's not a jab at you or anyone else when I say that they can do the job. Some folks here

We did both. Most were professionally installed but I always sold to DIYers as well and there have always been a percentage of them who wanted monitoring. This business model worked for me.

Reply to
news.comcast.net

I personally believe that an alarm owner has some serious thinking to do before he elects to go to one of these discount stations. Bottom line, I believe the customer is largely kidding himself if he thinks his alarm is going to run forever without service. Service through these discount stations is always subcontracted out to smaller alarmcos in the client's area, who charge whatever they like. I know, since I was asked to be one, and chose not to. However, IF he is able to service his own equipment, and IF he doesn't need the professional services of a dealer, and IF he can get the parts needed, then these stations can be a very good deal for the consumer.

I ended up dealing with one of these large discount monitoring stations in Toronto, by referring a DIY customer who came to me, to them. He didn't want me to change the installer code, and these people don't seem to care about that, so I sent him there. It ended up that I got a considerable amount of business from them in return. What goes around, comes around !! They do charge a full year in advance up front, so in effect, you are not locked in; however, if you leave, you lose what you've already paid out.

However, even they are going to end up in more of a price struggle, when the cable company Rogers enters into the monitoring game shortly. This is a good business proposition for them...they already have your cable business, and often your telephone business, so what little extra to add your monitoring business for $10 a month, three year term. Most of their guys screw up the client's alarm BIG TIME when installing the phone service (gotta go out Thursday evening to fix another one...) but even if they sub the service out to agreeable local alarmcos, they still end up "cream skimming" more revenue for themselves. They win, their customers win (in most cases), and the only ones who lose are the bigger companies with rates in the high twenties / low thirties.

I do believe that unlike the telco's disastrous foray into the alarm business, Rogers are smart enough to actually pull it off.

RHC

news.comcast.net wrote:

Reply to
tourman

Sounds like you took that right out of the book, "Revenge for Dummies":

******

A good way to threaten somebody would be to light a stick of dynamite.

Then call-up the object of your wrath on the telephone and hold the burning fuse up to the mouthpiece.

"Hear that?" you could yell, "You'd better watch it." "That *is* *dynamite*, you [pick an expletive] pathetic fool."

******

You leave me alone, and I'll do the same. I consider this matter closed.

Reply to
G. Morgan

What did you expect? NY is over 70% registered democrats and the only way a republican wins the big offices is by being wishy washy like Bloomberg

Reply to
Mark Leuck

"Mark Leuck" a écrit dans le message de news: urWdnWYMzdbjvMzYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

or have a brother that can "fix" election for you?

Reply to
Petem

Reply to
Everywhere Man

Let me respond to the last question first.

You'd know it if my "dander" had been upped.

My comment was meant to assure the person that what was your "opinion" was not necessarly factual. As a matter of fact it was intended to be simply a reply that I thought was more appropriate than actually contradicting you, as I'm sure probably a number of others had the urge to do also.

have considered that some of your comments tended to belittle products that others have used with great success. I'd guess that you haven't used every product that you commented on to the degree necessary to be considered an expert on them. Therefore your "opinion" of quality and/or level of how good they were, could be rather misleading to an enduser, who doesn't know anything about any product. In other words you could be killing a sale for an installer who would quote on a system using some of the products that you have little or no experience with. An installer who knows a hell of a lot more than you do about the products you belittled, that would have otherwise been a good for the OP.

Over a long time in ASA, it's sort of understood by most, that every installer has his "favorite" best product, panel, device, or method and when the subject comes up, those that choose to respond will usually offer the benefits of their particular favorite and try not to deride another product unless it is quite obvious that the product is decidedly bad. Usually only Bass will argue the point that anything that he thinks is the best ..... is acutally the best and that whatever you think is the best is garbage.

That's all.

So you see, my original comment ........ was a lot shorter

Reply to
Jim

I don't doubt that Bass has been a person that you wish wasn't around. I don't respond to Bass or his posts. A Liberal Democrat Yankee is hard for me to take in general and Bass is no exception. Bass has his views and I have mine. If he weren't trying to recover from his illness I might engage him. Things being the way they are I thinks it best that I wish him all the best and leave it at that. It is not just a matter of good taste or bad to make some of the comments made. Even if Bass made comments you view as comparable, if Bass told someone to drop dead he didn't say it while he knew that person was having a heart attack. Get some perspective, destroying a newsgroup doesn't equate in anyone's book to suffering an agonizing death. Everyone comes from someplace. My reality now is watching a co worker just

34 years old waste away. I was there at his hospital bed t>
Reply to
Roland Moore

Hey Roland let me clue you in on something, don't argue with Jim, it won't work because he's too far gone to reason with, most of us kinda treat him like a retarded half cousin twice removed.

He went over the edge about 5 years ago

differentiate

Reply to
Mark Leuck

You really are a moron aren't you?

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Anytime anyone makes a relatively negative or relatively positive comment about any product or practice they run the risk of costing someone money. Would people, or even just yourself, be better off if everyone refused to make such comments? Or is it just the relatively negative ones? Would you for instance prefer that doctors refrain from speaking frankly about different prescription drugs or surgical procedures? Should they not make qualitative comments on those that don't fall neatly into what they feel are the "decidedly good" or "decidedly bad" categories? Should they agree to only make positive comments about the things they personally prescribe? It would be quite a stretch to say that doctors are experts on all of the drugs they use. Most play no direct role in drug design, development, or formal testing. They form limited, imperfect impressions based on the baseline knowledge they have, through reading product information and papers, word of mouth reports, and mostly simple trial and error. One might expect the opinions of a highly experienced doctor to be the most correct, but that is by no means guaranteed. Any inexperienced doctor could experience a situation that gives him/her unique insight into the merits of a product or treatment, or simply acquire quality information from a reliable authoritative source. Similar things could be said about any profession, including alarm installation and all the others that you must rely on. It isn't just consumers who benefit from frank discussions about products and practices, it is also others in the profession. So if anyone is undecided about participating in such an "ASA code", they might want to consider the bigger picture and the question of double standards. Might I suggest genuine debate and addressing points head on rather than attempts to squelch free expression.

Reply to
David

Hmm. I have nothing against right-wing, ultra-conservative Republicans. It's their political leaders I can't stand. Fortunately, the people of the United States have spoken yesterday and the majority said "Enough!"

The reason this country is great is that you and I still have the freedom to express those views, diametrically opposed though they may be. The bigget issue in this newsgroup has always been about that same freedom. Jiminex and several othewrs here tried to drive me away (it's not the other way around as they claim) because they don't agree with what I say about industry problems. They also hate it when anyone tells a DIYer how to install his own alarm system.

I can handle an argument. I mostly ignore Jiminex because his idea of an argument is to curse like a gutter snipe and gloat over my cancer. I don't wish him any harm, lthough I wouldn't mind if he went away.

Thanks.

Never happened. I once or twice wise-cracked, "Drop dead and on the way down hit your head," but that was in jest. It was a quote from an old friend with a wicked sense of humor.

If Jiminex were having a heart attack in front of me I'd perform CPR. Like I said, I dislike him and I have no respect for him but I can't bring myself to hate him (or anyone else).

On this one you need some perspective. Jiminex *claims* that I've tried to destroy this newsgroup. In point of fact, I've posted tens of thousands of tech support messages and discussed all manner of security related issues with the regulars here. What infuriates Jiminex is that I disagree with some of the things he posts. He has been repeatedly told by numerous others, including several who disagree with me about business, that it is he who is destroying this newsgroup.

In all fairness I do occasionally post a little jibe at Jiminex and a few other obnoxious participants in ASA. But that is nothing compared to the things they have done, including sending bogus complaints to the BBB, filing false complaints with the ECLB (all dismissed), posting my SS# in a public newsgroup, posting the names, addresses and telephone numbers (including children's phones) of my elderly parents and their neighbors, as well as the same info about my own neighbors. One of these morons actually built a hate website. These are not *normal* people you're dealing with here.

You need to get this in context. These characters claim I've done terrible things to "their" newsgroup, but it's not *their* newsgroup and what I've actually done that annoys them is tell DIYers how to install their own systems. I help anyone who asks. They say, "Oh, but his motive is to make a sale." Yet their motive in attacking me and (frequently) attacking end users who ask for advice about DIY is to keep the trade for themselves. Jiminex is no different. He's just more prone to long, vulgar diatribes and a bit more hateful.

Sorry to hear that.

When I was in the hospital having my lung surgery my wife stayed at my side the entire time. She slept in a chair in my room for five of the six nights, only leaving me to prepare our home the night before I got out. During that time, besides family, friends visited me every day. While I was in pain and probably not much of a host, their presence made things a lot more bearable for me and for my wife. Keep visiting your friend, even if he gets to where he doesn't respond.

I doubt you'll get through to him. Jiminex is a little crazy. He's heard the same thing countless times from countless others. He counts anyone who doesn't jump on his hate-wagon as an enemy, worthy of contempt and ridicule. One of the nicest people to ever grace this newsgroup is a Canadian fellow named Bob Campbell. Bob currently posts under the nickname "Tourman." Jiminex has attacked Bob on every subject for years, all because Bob refuses to attack yours truly. Hang around a while and you'll see what I'm saying is true.

Regards, Robert

Reply to
Robert L Bass

good try but keep posting in English,Sophisticated language like French are not for the faint of heart

"Everywhere Man" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

Petem wrote:

Reply to
Petem

"Mark Leuck" a écrit dans le message de news: udydncpOfZd5G8zYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

oups! hit a nerve?

Reply to
Petem

No, I just love clueless people who believe that crap

Reply to
Mark Leuck

their political leaders I can't stand. Fortunately,

express those views, diametrically opposed though they

freedom. Jiminex and several othewrs here tried to

agree with what I say about industry problems. They

What a crock... errmmmmm... crook...

hit your head," but that was in jest. It was a quote

Uh-huh... Sure...

This is after you'd hit him on the head with a hammer, right? :-)

destroy this newsgroup. In point of fact, I've posted

security related issues with the regulars here.

Nope. You've posted tens of millions of bytes of useless information and html from your own website. You've also posted thousands of bytes of equally useless "family values" messages.

You mean the posts about "you"??

this newsgroup.

Hmmm... How about posting a couple of "Google" links to back up your claim?

other obnoxious participants in ASA.

You missed the part about how you do this completely unprovoked (as in after a long absence).

Kindly relate to us how anyone can file a "bogus complaint with the BBB"? If any of the complaints here:

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were filed by anyone here (in ASA), PROVE IT!!!!

heh... sure... Bass no longer sells monitoring services on line...

telephone numbers (including children's phones)

own neighbors. One of these morons actually built a

Neither are you.

things to "their" newsgroup, but it's not *their*

install their own systems.

Kindly point to one posting that was anti-DIY. Just one, Bass. The dozens or so "puppets" you frequently post here as don't count.

Sure you do. With "brilliant" suggestions you've culled from very same industry professionals that post here and the Sentrol Application Handbook...

Which is entirely true.

Proof, Bass... Proof.

And you aren't??

It's sorta like lookin' in the mirror, isn't it?? What's the FAQ say about selling stuff in the Group again??

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Well, I'm happy to say I am too...

Sorta like you, eh?

contempt and ridicule.

Actually, he was very patient with me when I first started posting into the group... Remember??

He's a "pip" alright...

Nope. That's not the reason, either... You're a liar, Bass. A fraud. A Cad... an Ultramaroon...

You mean the "furthest from", don't you??

Reply to
Frank Olson

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