Ademco 50p: Water Flow Recommendations

As long as the water flow device is UL listed it realy does not matter what manufactuer you use. However the sensor should be on its own seperate 24 hour fire zone . normally a Vista 100,32 128,250 FB panel would be required if this was aomrcail property, which has a water flow specific zone setting. But you are residential and the 50 P is Ok. Normally the wiring between the water flow device and panel is in some type of conduit as well for extra protection when set up to commercail standard. One thing you will need to concider is the amount of retard (delay) you will need to set the valve to prevent a false signal from happening should water preaseure go low in the house .most water flow valves hae a retard mechanisim designed in them. Also you will want to chain orelectrically tamper the water shut off valve to prevent accidential shut off of the water supply and concider installing an inexspensive temprature switch on asperate zone to warn if house is getting to cold while you are away to prevent pipes from freezing.

I am sure others in the group will have more comments as well .

Your question raises a bunch of interesting issues, starting with what you mean by a residential sprinkler system. That term usually refers to a system that is connected to the domestic water supply system, rather than directly to the water main. It's nowhere near a full sprinkler system, and is primarily intended to provide some extra protection for the occupants, and it is not intended to provide the degree of property protection a real sprinkler system would provide.

Without knowing the details of your building, it's impossible to assess how effective a residential sprinkler system would be. However, I am concerned that such a system is being used to protect a six story building. I am no sprinkler expert, but I recommend that you talk to one. Not a plumber, but a fire sprinkler contractor. One question I would ask is whether there is sufficient water supply and water pressure to protect the sixth floor. Some taller buildings require pumps and/or tanks to provide an adequate water supply. At the very least, your conversation with the sprinkler contractor will let you understand what you can -- and cannot expect from this sprinkler system.

I understand that the NYFD is somewhat finicky about fire alarms installed in their city. To avoid costly mistakes, you should deal with an alarm company that is familiar with their requirements. For example, in an ordinary six-story commercial building, you would like to have one waterflow switch per floor, so that you and the fire department are not running around trying to figure out which floor the fire is on.

Since your insurance company is asking for central station monitoring, the design of your system may vary. Unfortunately, most insurance people are not literate in this area, and you run the risk of asking too many questions. If your insurance company is satisfied with a "household fire alarm system," you can get off inexpensively. Such a system is designed for life safety, not property protection, and waterflow monitoring is considered an add-on, an optional feature that just happens to transmit a signal to a central station. Your Vista-50 would meet this requirement, if the NYFD agrees, and the technical requirements are pretty minimal.

On the other hand, your insurance company may view the risk from fire or water damage as severe enough to require the sort of fire alarm system that would be required in a commercial building. Your Vista-50 panel would not meet these requirements. The Vista-128FBP, for example, would. It would require two phone lines, and it would transmit daily test signals to verify its operability. Your residential Vista-50 only uses one phone line, and is only required to send a test signal once a month. The cost is less, the monitoring is cheaper, and the reliability is not as good.

I'm sorry, but I just do not think a Vista-50 is suitable for use as a fire alarm panel in a six story building. A six-story bulding in NYC costs a giant pile of money, to say nothing of the value of the occupants' lives. Don't chintz on the fire protection! At six stories, you shouldn't have to deal with the expensive high-rise fire alarm requirements, but you should have a dedicated fire alarm panel that will identify the floor and the type of alarm (waterflow, smoke, etc.). Do it to commercial standards, with the dual phone lines, a smoke detector protecting the alarm panel, and so on. Whether or not this gives you an additional insurance discount, do it anyway. This is no place to try and save a few bucks.

- badenov

Your question raises a bunch of interesting issues, starting with what you mean by a residential sprinkler system. That term usually refers to a system that is connected to the domestic water supply system, rather than directly to the water main. It's nowhere near a full sprinkler system, and is primarily intended to provide some extra protection for the occupants, and it is not intended to provide the degree of property protection a real sprinkler system would provide.

Without knowing the details of your building, it's impossible to assess how effective a residential sprinkler system would be. However, I am concerned that such a system is being used to protect a six story building. I am no sprinkler expert, but I recommend that you talk to one. Not a plumber, but a fire sprinkler contractor. One question I would ask is whether there is sufficient water supply and water pressure to protect the sixth floor. Some taller buildings require pumps and/or tanks to provide an adequate water supply. At the very least, your conversation with the sprinkler contractor will let you understand what you can -- and cannot expect from this sprinkler system.

I understand that the NYFD is somewhat finicky about fire alarms installed in their city. To avoid costly mistakes, you should deal with an alarm company that is familiar with their requirements. For example, in an ordinary six-story commercial building, you would like to have one waterflow switch per floor, so that you and the fire department are not running around trying to figure out which floor the fire is on.

Since your insurance company is asking for central station monitoring, the design of your system may vary. Unfortunately, most insurance people are not literate in this area, and you run the risk of asking too many questions. If your insurance company is satisfied with a "household fire alarm system," you can get off inexpensively. Such a system is designed for life safety, not property protection, and waterflow monitoring is considered an add-on, an optional feature that just happens to transmit a signal to a central station. Your Vista-50 would meet this requirement, if the NYFD agrees, and the technical requirements are pretty minimal.

On the other hand, your insurance company may view the risk from fire or water damage as severe enough to require the sort of fire alarm system that would be required in a commercial building. Your Vista-50 panel would not meet these requirements. The Vista-128FBP, for example, would. It would require two phone lines, and it would transmit daily test signals to verify its operability. Your residential Vista-50 only uses one phone line, and is only required to send a test signal once a month. The cost is less, the monitoring is cheaper, and the reliability is not as good.

I'm sorry, but I just do not think a Vista-50 is suitable for use as a fire alarm panel in a six story building. A six-story bulding in NYC costs a giant pile of money, to say nothing of the value of the occupants' lives. Don't chintz on the fire protection! At six stories, you shouldn't have to deal with the expensive high-rise fire alarm requirements, but you should have a dedicated fire alarm panel that will identify the floor and the type of alarm (waterflow, smoke, etc.). Do it to commercial standards, with the dual phone lines, a smoke detector protecting the alarm panel, and so on. Whether or not this gives you an additional insurance discount, do it anyway. This is no place to try and save a few bucks.

- badenov

Well the 50P isn't a fire panel