Hi all: I've just installed Norton Internet Security 2005 on a machine running W2K/sp4 and AOL ver8, and the firewall is preventing the buddylist from appearing on the opening screen. I know that NIS is causing the symptom just described b/c the buddylist appears when NIS is disabled. Would appreciate any advice re. cause of, and fix for, problem just described (and, yes, I DO already know all the reasons why I should dump AOL, so plese spare me the lectures :)). Thanks for your replies!
Thanks for the response; I'll look into it. And yes, while it's true that some of us compute to live while others live to compute, and while there's nothing wrong with being in the latter (or, for that matter, the former) category, it's too bad that Gerald couldn't find the grace to share his obviously considerable expertise without also attempting to make me feel like he's the windshield and I'm the bug (be advised, Gerald, that, in the real world, those roles reverse frequently, and usually without notice). :)
Us stoopid people gotta stick together so, with these caveats-- I don't use AOL I'm using NIS 2003 I'm using Win XP-Pro
try to transpose and make some use of this proccedure:
In NIS click on 'Status and Settings', then in the account you're using click on 'Personal Firewall', then 'configure', then in 'Manual Control' add the AOL buddylist configuration and give it the required permission. Hope this helps or as the brainy ones would say, HTH. If not maybe someone else may stoop so low as to offer concrete notions as to what buttons to punch. LOL!
Works for me. Show me how and I can figure out why. I understand that all don't think this way and indeed many are concerned only that it works. And why should they not have such expectations? RTFM is fine if the manual is worth shit. Symantec menus are a bitch to wade thru and then the advice often sucks. No arguing that the PC user has the ultimate responsibility and if they repeatedly make the same screw-ups then be it on their heads. Innocence should be presumed first however (IMHO and as a relatively non-tech newbie). I started out asking occasionally stupid and OT questions but have progressed where I can even occasionally help out my kin-folk when they make a mess. To sum up, I understand where you come from, Gerald, and I hope you understand my take on this.
Well, why don't you dump NIS? If you don't know else then turn it off to fix your problems then it seems to complicated for you and you should look for a more appropriate solutions. I very much hope that your machine is up-to-date with the most current updates else I would not wonder if you machine is now infested with a couple worms because you turned off your firewall for a file...
Check NIS manual and online support to find out which of the zillions of components of NIS is actually blocking something and why, then find out where to configure that. If you do this you learned something about your PFW and it maybe of some use for you. If someone just tells you which switch to flip then you just still use some security software that is much too complicated for you and you will turn it off again the next time you run into some problem...
Well, I saw too much shit happening and had to clean up the shit for people too often to really believe that the direct explanation of the solutions helps people to actually learn something about the stuff they are using. For security, the most important thing is that the user learns proper behaviour not to risk anything. This is the only safe and sound thing to do. But too often it is the other way round: people are not interested in anything except that this one connection is supposed to work. If you give them exactly this answer they will do exactly this and nothing else. When there is the next problem, same procedure again. And in particular for so fundamental functionality like the application rules of your firewall it seems only reasonable to tell people: try to work in and understand the stuff.
Your FW manual does contain description how it works. It takes some time to read and you will learn a lot if you do. It certainly takes a little longer and it is not immediately what you are looking for.
The online support pages contain descriptions. I know Symantec support pages are not really good but you can learn quickly how to navigate them and how you will find the things you are looking for. If you spend the time to figure it out, you'll know next time when you run into a problem with a LiveUpdate error mesage and quickly find the solution to it. Again, it takes time but it is worth to explore it anyway.
I know security sucks, because it limits the ways of the user. I know people just want working security, security that is perfect but does not interfere with anything (really anything) that the user does. If you pamper the user, they usually get lame and aren't careful anymore. If you tell them frankly that the only real big security threat to their own system is likely the user himself, well, nobody wants to hear that either. But, once there is a security problem the security people are supposed to clean up the mess quickly...
I have seen too many people (and I don't say that you have to be one of them) that figuratively speaking bought a tank to drive into the worst neighborhood of your city (or L.A. or whereever you like). a) they did not know how a tank works, b) they just want to know how to get the next
50m straight ahead and not how to navigate the tank and understand how to use it properly, c) why do they want to go there anyway?
So it is certainly nice to know which steps to do to change your settings now. I gave you a hint how to do it in general: found out about the logging and figure out what your firewall is doing. This is generally extremely helpful with any future to narrow down the problem and as side-effect you learn how that thing works. Once you figured out what part of your PFW is blocking and for what reason you can look into the component and learn how to configure it. These are the usual steps to learn how to use the thing if you have to use it. At the end you would know how it works and how to fix the problem. And the same time you learned a couple of more useful things that may be extremely helpful for the next time... The only real security solution is the learning user.
Turning off a firewall is something you should not do unless you really know what you are doing. People quickly suspect their firewall to cause the problem and then turn it off to see if it works better. After a while people have turned off the firewall for a couple of minutes, which basically means that they stand in the internet naked and which is enough in the internet to catch a severe cold or worse. If the only solution to your problem is to turn your firewall off, then you are either using the wrong software which is too complex or you did not learn how to find the problem and fix it without turning it off. Turning off a firewall is a clear indicate for me for exactly that. You never ever "just" turn the firewall off. If you have a buglar alarm in your house which blocks you from accessing some part of your own house or that goes off all the time, switching it off is no solution. For your own security you must learn how to fix a problem without turning the the alarm off. If you don't manage, consider changing the system to something easier to understand and use. It is just no use if you turn it off frequently...
So, I really hope you had your computer updated because else...
But certainly, you don't have to know all this and you may just as well ignore good advice. Who are you?
Gerald, my home network is behind a router, so I'm not terribly worried about the consequences of having shut off the firewall for all of 45 seconds. And while I do understand your thoughtful replies and agree with you in principal, I think you're disregarding the realities and demands of modern-day life, and setting yourself up for total frustration, if you expect others to exhibit the same degree of enthusiasm for a trip up the computing learning curve that you have evidently experienced. I drive my car to and from work everyday, but do not understand the workings of, and could not repair, its fuel injection system, and I have no idea how to convert rubber tree sap into tires. I watch TV most evenings, but have no desire to understand or master principals of wave propogation, electronics or optics, and if the thing goes on the blink I'll have no idea what to do. I go on living my life, even though I do not understand the chemistry by which my body converts food to energy and wouldn't know how to fix a hernia. And I travel in airplanes even though I wouldn't know how to repair a malfunctioning jet engine and understand very little about aerodynamics and what magical forces keep those gigantic machines up in the air, and in ships even though I don't understand why they don't sink like stones and what prevents water from invading the hull through the propeller-shaft opening. In short, life is much too complicated, demanding and diverse to know everything it would be nice, and useful, to know about everything. So we all specialize and prioritize, and when we encounter a problem that we can't solve by ourselves, we come to places such as this forum hoping to benefit from the expertise of someone like you for whom these subjects have a higher priority than they do for us (we, of course, reciprocate, by contributing our particular expertise to the benefit of others where it is appropriate to do so elsewhere). So, while I do try to keep abreast of developments in the world of computing, whenever I encounter a problem and the alternatives for solving it are either (a) to spend 3 days wading through articles in the MS knowledge base looking for the answer, or (b) posting an inquiry in a forum such as this, learning the fix in short order from someone who's experienced the same problem and has already solved it, and getting on with life, I'll choose the latter over the former in a New York second, and, like it or not, I suspect that many others, of necessity, have the same attitude. So, with all due respect, please permit me to suggest that, instead of embarrassing total strangers and making them feel like foolish ignoramuses for exhibiting conduct of which you disapprove but which you won't convince them to change, you would derive considerably more satisfaction from basking in the celebrity afforded by your hard-earned expertise, and the admiration and appreciation that would doubtless be lavished upon you by those desperate souls whose quandries you have helped to resolve. Just a thought. Regards, PE
"Gerald Vogt" wrote in message news:4233b7f9$0$973$ snipped-for-privacy@news2.asahi-net.or.jp...
Well, but why then do you use this stuff? That is what I don't always understand. Nobody forces you do use it...
Hmm. This is, I think, where I have to disagree. O.K. I see that everybody promotes that computers are so easy to use nowadays and everybody must get experience with it. I think however, that as newbie you should look for something that is appropriate for you as beginner to introduce you to computing. This is, I admit, not easy because the computers that sell, are still these complex boxes even if they are much easier to use than years ago (O.K. even that is not true because MS-DOS was much easier to use then Windows... ;-) Microsoft is adding more stuff to Windows much faster that most newbies and beginners never really can catch up.
It is kind of like driving: you are a small kid and you get the keys to a real car with lots of horse-power (or you drive cars but want to drive a huge truck). If you do it this way you should be aware of all the horse-power and that you have to be extremely careful and need a lot of learning until you get the car moving. I suppose you would not want to go 200 kph and then figure that you don't know yet how to stop the car...
I know, I know, there are not really many beginner's computers out there and Microsoft Windows is far that. Some Set-Top internet or so would be probably good for many folks to experience the internet and email without having to worry about how to crash that thing... So I don't think you just can say you are innocent because you are newbie. You are still using extremely complex and difficult hi-tech equipment (even if noone really bothers to tell you that frankly).
Sure. Thanks for you answer. I really appreciate your feedback on this. Just tell me how I convince everyone not to avoid the learning curve necessary and I will be happy. ;-)
Not all experience. Many things you learn in high school or college you just learn like that without experience. Just image an architect that would accept to learn by experience... ;-) There is established knowlegde (accumulated wisdom) that people just have to learn...
But you are required to take driving lessons, pass tests and have a license. If you have a problem with your car, you would go to a garage wouldn't you? You wouldn't just start to fiddle around with your brakes because you read something on the usenet.
O.K. Computers are far away from being so easy to use then TVs. But then, something like a Settop-Box for instance would give you a lot of internet and e-mail and would be much easier to use...
Yes. And if there is a problem with it, you accept that you don't know much about it and you go to an expert who does. Noone really bothers to have a computer setup by an expert you adjusts the settings thoughtfully in a way you need it.
That would be you won't even use the computer but have somebody else do it for you who knows about it...?;-) And take the pilot: he know a lot about his plane, but if there is a technical problem on the ground he generally calls for the engineer to have a look.
Wow, I need a dictionary for that sentence... ;-) I understand your arguments and I think they would work great in an internet where there is not much danger. But there are many computers in the internet exploited for relaying spams, spreading p*rn or other illegal activities. These are normal end-user computers of people that are most of the time totally surprised to see what is going on their computer. Just fiddling around with some settings on a machine you don't understand never really helps because of all the dependencies even experts find sometimes hard to grasp completely. And in particular with something like security software which is supposed to protect you it is essential to know how to use it (not how it works). Your hi-tech alarm system at home with all the newest security gadgets will be close to useless if you don't know how to operate it properly. I know people want security just to work but a complex security system on a complex system like a computer just demands a lot of the user... Therefore, I also would prefer an answer that challenges people to learn a little than just tell them the three clicks it takes to make the change. Then you have learned how the changes work in general and you will hopefully be able to make future adjustments with confidence yourself. But, well, maybe experience with too many ignorants that ignore any good advice made me a little bit hypersensitive... Sorry, then...
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