This morning, I did sbc yahoo DSL installation at family member's house using a modem router combo unit from sbc. Brand is 2WIRE; model is 1800HG Gateway.
With the old DSL service, the same unit modem+router combo unit was used but I didn't do the setup. Current DSL was initially set up with a "speed stream" modem unit bought from sbc DSL. (My brother just buys things instead of hcekcign what's at home.)
During set up with this 2WIRE unit, I didn't do any security thing and I am wondering whether I should after realizing that that 2WIRE unit was wiresless according to the tech guy. Right now, network cable is used to connect to the only desktop.
Hoe excatly is DSL service different from Comcast as far as others accesing to the wireless network to use the internet. Would the user need the DSL installer installed inhis/her PC(laptop)?
If it's an Efficient 4100 or 5100b, it *MIGHT* have the PPPoE login saved in the router. You'll need the full login name and password to setup the 1800HG.
The 2wire defaults keep changing at the request of the ISP's. In the past, the router arrived with WEP as the default encryption. These daze, it's set to WPA encryption. The encryption key is on the last line of the serial number sticker on the bottom of the router base. Not much to do if you're not using wireless. However, I would check anyway. Point your web browser at the router IP address (use IPCONFIG to find it) and dive into the web based setup on the wireless security page. Set it to WPA and pick a reasonally secure pass phrase (over 20 characters).
Comcrash uses DHCP to assign the users IP addresses. PBI/SBC/AT&T/whatever uses the evil PPPoE to do the same thing. The difference is that Comcast does NOT need a login and password, while SBC does. To the user on the LAN side of the router, they're absolutely identical.
No way. If you just want to try it, leave the wireless settings alone. With Windoze XP, "view available networks". Punch in the encryption key (last line of the serial number label), and it should work. If you find that it's WEP, change it later to WPA.
It's 4100. It didn't save because I tried setting it up using that speed stream unit first when I changed the desktop for my sister and had to install DSL installer.
I got those from the DSL provider. I calle from the same phone line that DSL was on. Sort of pretended that I was my bro - the account holder - and wasn't asked any personal question. Was just asked how was the payment usually made. My sister is the one who paid and with check and I said, "We.....".
After talking with the tech support when setting up 2WIRE, from Control Panel, I clicked on "Wireless Network Setup Wizard", put network name (SSID) and had a choice to let the computer creat the key (WEP/WAP) or create manually. It didn't specificy whether it was WEP or WAP.
Yes, I was aware of that because the tech guy told me how tol gte access to the network if I have a laptop with wirkless capability.
So if I want to set up the wireless security, I need to go to Configuration Set up page for the 2WIRE which btw, can be reached at "http://home"? What's the different between setting up wireless network via that set up page and setting it using Control Panel's "Wireless Network Setup Wizard"?
Yeah, I had to choose PPPoE with when setting up the 2WIRE unit.
Is that difference just a part of technology applied or is that because the ISP provider makes it that way?
I see.
Okay.
I don't have a wirless laptop or desktop at the moment to try.
That's pretty much what the tech guy said. He said the wireless laptop will try to go onto the network and I just needed to give that number in [........] which is on the bottom of the 2WIRE unit. Since he said "better not do any wirless security", would the network name (SSID) appear as the name of the DSL account holder if I had not done using Control Panel's "Wireless Network Setup Wizard"? I would have gone back to the "http://home" page and checked if I were nto terribly tired at the time. Now no one is at home over that house to open the door.
The SBC DSL/Wireless unit that a friend received recently seems to be the
4100, although I didn't verify that myself.
This one was satisfied from a Windows popup that asked for the key, which was supplied. The laptop is using an Orinoco Silver, so it can only be WEP-64. No WPA in that card.
It seems to have been set up already. Someone else did participate in the initial self install, but claims not to have installed any software, or keyed in any login information.
SBC knows which unit it is, which phone line it is connected to. Why would a login be needed for the internet connection? If they send the modem, it could be one of a pool with a set of pre-configured logins, if any login were needed.
Cable modems don't need login information. Why should DSL?
If it is just the moden and brand name is speed steam, it's 4100 these days. The older design, which my sister's hosue also had, might be
5100b thoguh i didn't look at the bottomm.
If it is SBC modem + router combo and wioreless, the one we have is
2WIRE. This was bought over 2 years ago.
Yeah, I wasn't doing any security setup and the tech guy told me that when accesing from a pc w/ wireless capability, say a laptop with wi-fi, the key number to put is the last line of serial number label in appeared in [ ]. May be it's the same analogy as with requiring member ID and password to install yahoo installer. With comcast, oeen doesn't need that comcast software, ie, if I reformat the hard drive, I can just access the internet w/o the need of any comcast software installed in my PC that coonects to the modem or router.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 04:32:50 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@XReXXWasXt.usenet.us.com wrote in :
PPPoE piggybacks on dial-up authentication, in part because, unlike cable, it's designed so you can login to different accounts, or even to different providers. However, that idea went over like a lead balloon, so now we're just stuck with the hassle.
Personal questions? Ummm.... what manner of hot line were you calling?
I think (not sure) that it's WPA for the 1800HG/HW.
I didn't know that. I usually use 172.16.0.254 (or something like that) found with the IPCONFIG command.
More options. More control. More ways to screw things up. I've never bother to even try the Windoze Network wizard.
Both. PPPoE does not in itself require a login and password. However, PBI/SBC/AT&T wants the user to authenticate. This is a subtle difference between the SBC system of authenticating the user, and other systems of authenticating the connection (using the MAC address). From RFC2516:
PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE) provides the ability to connect a network of hosts over a simple bridging access device to a remote Access Concentrator. With this model, each host utilizes it's own PPP stack and the user is presented with a familiar user interface. Access control, billing and type of service can be done on a per-user, rather than a per-site, basis.
At one time, Comcast was authenticating by MAC address, but now uses the DOCSIS BPI (baseline privacy interface) which also encrypts everything. In effect, they authenticate the cable modem, not the user. The problem with this is if the modem dies, a replacement doesn't automagically function without first calling support. This is not the case with PPPoE, where any DSL modem will work. The PPPoE login and passwd can be in buried in the modem or the router depending on hardware supplied. Of course, all this authentication is ridiculous because the DSL number is not portable and is automatically authenticated by the wiring at the CO (central office) to the DSLAM (digital subscriber line access multiplexor). This is one reason why I think PPPoE sucks.
Borrow one to try out the wireless.
If you left the SSID at the default, it would be "2wireXXX" where XXX are the last 3 digits of the MAC address. There's nothing sacred about this SSID. If you changed it, there's no problem. However, I would not set it to the user account login name.
If you had a wireless laptop, you could sit outside the house and hack your way in. The fun part is explaining to the police what you're doing sitting in a car, late at night, pounding on a laptop.
| Comcrash uses DHCP to assign the users IP addresses. | PBI/SBC/AT&T/whatever uses the evil PPPoE to do the same thing. The | difference is that Comcast does NOT need a login and password, while | SBC does. To the user on the LAN side of the router, they're | absolutely identical.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 00:04:23 -0700 Jeff Liebermann wrote: | "Amanda" hath wroth: | |>I got those from the DSL provider. I calle from the same phone line |>that DSL was on. Sort of pretended that I was my bro - the account |>holder - and wasn't asked any personal question. Was just asked how was |>the payment usually made. My sister is the one who paid and with check |>and I said, "We.....". | | Personal questions? Ummm.... what manner of hot line were you | calling?
Personal questions that no one in the world could possibly know, such as:
Your pet's name
Your mother's maiden name
The last 9 digits of your SSN
Of course, if you do forget any of these, you can buy the info online from a Russian web site.
| Both. PPPoE does not in itself require a login and password. However, | PBI/SBC/AT&T wants the user to authenticate. This is a subtle | difference between the SBC system of authenticating the user, and | other systems of authenticating the connection (using the MAC | address). From RFC2516: | | PPP over Ethernet (PPPoE) provides the ability to connect a network | of hosts over a simple bridging access device to a remote Access | Concentrator. With this model, each host utilizes it's own PPP stack | and the user is presented with a familiar user interface. Access | control, billing and type of service can be done on a per-user, | rather than a per-site, basis. | | At one time, Comcast was authenticating by MAC address, but now uses | the DOCSIS BPI (baseline privacy interface) which also encrypts | everything. In effect, they authenticate the cable modem, not the | user. The problem with this is if the modem dies, a replacement | doesn't automagically function without first calling support. This is | not the case with PPPoE, where any DSL modem will work. The PPPoE | login and passwd can be in buried in the modem or the router depending | on hardware supplied. Of course, all this authentication is | ridiculous because the DSL number is not portable and is automatically | authenticated by the wiring at the CO (central office) to the DSLAM | (digital subscriber line access multiplexor). This is one reason why | I think PPPoE sucks.
Don't blame the protocol for how the telco (mis)uses it. That's kind of like blaming TCP when a spammer makes an SMTP connection to your mail server.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 06:19:16 GMT John Navas wrote: | On 20 Aug 2006 21:52:17 -0700, "Amanda" wrote | in : | |>Yeah, I wasn't doing any security setup and the tech guy told me that |>when accesing from a pc w/ wireless capability, say a laptop with |>wi-fi, the key number to put is the last line of serial number label |>in appeared in [ ]. May be it's the same analogy as with requiring |>member ID and password to install yahoo installer. With comcast, oeen |>doesn't need that comcast software, ie, if I reformat the hard drive, I |>can just access the internet w/o the need of any comcast software |>installed in my PC that coonects to the modem or router. | | The Comcast software is needed for initial registration of a new | account, but not thereafter.
If the authentication is in the modem, then what is the software doing? Oh wait, I know ... it's making sure you have the right popups (e.g. it deletes any that advertize DSL).
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 00:04:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote in :
Actually different functions. The router set up page configures the router. Windows WNSW configures Windows.
And that's the point -- as I wrote my earlier post to this thread, PPPoE is typically set up this way so you can connect to different accounts, or even to different providers.
Not so ridiculous: I've seen a couple of enterprise deployments where the multi-connect capability of PPPoE is used to create a virtual extension of the enterprise LAN, where one login is used to connect to AT&T/SBC/PBI as an ISP, and another different login is used to connect to the enterprise LAN (without connecting to AT&T/SBC/PBI as an ISP). This arguably provides better convenience and security than connecting to the enterprise LAN through AT&T/SBC/PBI. So it's not that AT&T/SBC/PBI wants the user to authenticate, it's that the user needs to select the connection.
I don't think that would really matter -- the user account login name isn't secure -- what matters is the password.
Fairly easy to mask what's going on so nobody gets concerned.
On 21 Aug 2006 08:35:25 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote in :
The software register and creates the new account (including userid and password, as well as account options); i.e., much more than just authenticating the modem itself.
I saw your other post in this thread about being able to use that alternate login ability, and I suppose that's what one is doing when using something other than SBC-Yahoo ISP on an SBC phone line, but it is problematic.
"stuck" isn't necessarily so stuck. 2wire could easily program in some default login set, so that newer installations would not require manual administration by the user.
It also doesn't seem to work without SBC administering that ability, or at least the reverse seems to be true. They only accept a particular login on a particular phone line. You can swap out the modem and log in, but you can't use your login at someone else's house.
I'm not so sure. As I recall, 2wire supplies a resident tool that sits in the system tray that monitors the connection and is also used to access the setup screen without using a browser. I never use it or the Windoze network setup thing in the control panel, so I'll play ignorant.
Sorry. I didn't see your posting until after my posting my rant. I have yet to see any US based DSL ISP use any such PPPoE exclusive features. As I understand it, multiple VPI/VCI circuits are directly supported by the DSL modem, and not by the PPPoE protocol. I know that such features are available in Europe. However, SBC refuses to provision multiple ATM circuits or ISP's on any of their circuits. It would make it really easy to offer circuit switched all digital telephony and broadband on a single pair (i.e. no POTS). However, since SBC is required to share such circuits with competitors, they do everything they can to prevent it.
In effect, this is an ATM PVC using DSL instead of the usual Frame Relay. Nice. I didn't know it was being offered. Thanks.
True. I was thinking that the prospective wireless hacker might also be a spammer and add a new email address to their collection. AT&T also uses the login name as the "master" email address.
Sure. I'll try to remember my black hat, ski mask, and gothic apparel. Gotta wear the standard uniform that all hackers on TV seem to prefer.
If I imbed the laptop display into the vehicle, I could claim that I'm playing with the overly complex music player or navigation system.
formatting link
formatting link
(examples) Applicable Calif Vehicle Code section:
formatting link
ossifer... I wasn't watching TV. It was Google Videos. Sigh.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 15:31:50 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@XReXXWasXt.usenet.us.com wrote in :
Correct.
Not really. It works as intended.
I think the 2Wire method is actually one of the better ones.
Correct, because that's not what's intended. The intention is to be able to have multiple connections over a given DSL service, not some sort of virtual roaming capability, which would open up a can of security and privacy worms. The specific DSL line is part of the PPPoE authentication.
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:47:27 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote in :
Me too -- it's been too long since I used a 2Wire unit.
AT&T/SBC/PBI does (or at least it did).
That's really a different issue, intended to be used with different ISP resellers.
PPPoE works quite well for this.
Only in effect -- PPPoE is different from ATM PVC.
True, but email addresses are more easily obtained in other ways.
Ironically, cops will tend to pay attention only to cars parked on the street. Pull into the driveway, and they'll generally assume you live there, especially if you open a door or the hood like you're working on the car. Yet another case of misplaced enthusiasm. [sigh]
| telephony and broadband on a single pair (i.e. no POTS). However, | since SBC is required to share such circuits with competitors, they do | everything they can to prevent it.
This is why the telco breakup was done all wrong, blinded by the way long distance was handled back then. The correct way to have split things was not at the boundary between local service and long distance service, but rather, at the boundary between physical facility, and switched or provisioned services. The physical facility would include things like ATM and the circuits therein would be connectable to whoever the customer wanted to.
Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.