Can excessive downloading mess up the router?

Hi everyone,

I basically need to know one thing: if someone downloads several gigabytes every night via a shared wireless connection, is that in itself capable of messing up the wireless router to the point where it has to be set-up all over again?

The situation is this: me and my boyfriend live together and we recently had a tenant move into the spare room. All 3 of us divide the cable broadband costs between us, therefore all 3 of us have a right to use the connection. We have a Linksys wireless router ( WRT54G ) for a

2MB broadband connection, where our ISP imposes no limitations on our download quota. My boyfriend does not have wireless so he just uses a cable going direct from the router into his PC. Myself and the tenant share the wireless connection.

I've noticed however that ever since he moved in, we seem to have constant connection problems with the router. Firstly, I had to endure slow web browsing because he was constantly using 'Bit Torrent' programs to download huge files. Then our connection died a couple of times and it was blamed on our ISP or the router being unplugged accidentally. But now it's happening every couple of days. Frustratingly, each time it happens, the only thing that fixes it is to reset the router and re-configure it again using the Linksys CD, creating a new SSID and passwords. Then it works fine again for another couple of days and then it's back to 'Limited or no connection' messages and then finally it goes dead. When all this happens, the actual internet connection still works fine when the main ISP cable is removed from the router and plugged directly into a PC, so the problem is definitely happening within the router, not from our ISP.

After resetting the router 3 days ago I was exasperated to see the connection dying again last night - but it happened to be the one night where our new tenant had been at his PC all evening. A bit suspicious, I went into my Linksys admin control panel, and I could see (to my anger) that our new tenant was now using TWO computers to download files (his laptop and his PC) - I can see in the log which ports he's using and they are all associated with those bit torrent programs. (And it's definitely him, not an unknown wireless free-loader, because firstly both computers have his name and secondly we have a WEP key/hidden network - so hacking is unlikely).

So once again, the router is screwed and my patience is wearing thin. The thing is - before we have the inevitable 'house meeting', I'd like to be a little more clued up before I make any accusations - because he takes advantage of my wireless-ignorance. Firstly, it was already accepted that when one person downloads large files (which 95% of the time is our bandwidth-happy tenant) the other 2 users inevitably suffer from a slower browsing speed. But having to actually reset the router now because of this is way too much.

I want to be able to 'prove' that his excessive downloading is jamming the router and this means we have to reset it each time. I have to show that his greed is spoiling the connection for everyone else and he needs to cut it out - but I want to have my facts straight first.

So is this possible? Can excessive downloading mess up the wireless router?

Thanks in advance,

A weary Theresa

Reply to
Theresa
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You might want to look into using alternate drivers on your router. The dd-wrt drivers (version 23 currently) let you use QOS to allocate resources (you can give torrent downloads a lower priority). You can also set number of connections and connection timeouts to improve response.

Note: If you are using a WRT54G version 5 router, you can't load alternate drivers. If the serial number on your router does NOT end in 'CDFB', you can.

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Reply to
Jerry Park
[snip]

Two points:

First, Your tennant's use of bittorrent will hog your bandwidth, and you can get around this by messing with QoS in the router's configuration pages (at http://192.168.1.1), under Applications & Gaming, I think. You can specify which IPs or MAC addresses get priority.

Secondly, Disconnects sounds like other 2.4GHz interference, so you might want to Google on how to minimise that .

In answer to your question, I shouldn't think high levels of internet activity will kill your router!

Reply to
__spc__

Thanks both of you for the suggestions. .. I've followed your advice and this is what I done:

I setup the router again, all working as usual, and I went into the Applications & Gaming and put HTTP on "High Priority" and manually added port 6881 and put it on Low priority..

H>

Reply to
Theresa

Might be best not to mention this to the tenant though.

If he realises, he could operate BitTorrent on port 80 rather than 6881 which means his traffic would get priority :)

Reply to
Iain Napier

I find if I uses Azerous from one machine on my wireless network the other PCs' internet access grinds to a halt, as I am using two routers I haven't quite cracked port forwarding yet!

Hiding the SSID is not a good idea as.... a. any half serious hacker will have the ability to find it, and.... b.the chances of interference is higher because other users can't see yours, also quote from a recent post 'There's a known fault with some APs and cards that means they lose connection if the SSID is hidden. and

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snip

Des

Reply to
Des

"Theresa" hath wroth:

(...)

(...)

Very nice description. Some questions:

- Which hardware version WRT54G and what version firmware? Is the firmware the latest version?

- When you say you use the Linksys CD, so you mean that you're using SES to setup the router?

- Is the router really totally cleared and back to defaults after one of these incidents? The limited connectivity message implies that the DHCP server in the router is not working, which means that it is NOT being cleared, but being trashed instead. See below for testing proceedure.

I general, there is nothing in the content or traffic that will hang or crash a router. In reality, there are subtle problems with many routers that can cause problems. None that I know require that the router be setup from scratch or are capeable of affecting the settings. I do know of an obscure bit pattern that will send the Broadcom ethernet switch into diagnostic mode, but the chances of that happening regularly are zero.

Some really obscure possibilities worth checking:

  1. Loose or excessively sensitive reset button.
  2. Nearby radio transmitter. I've reset a BEFW11s4 router with my 5 watt UHF handheld radio.
  3. Change the router password and do NOT tell your neighbor. He might be tinkering with the QoS setting to improve his share of the bandwidth.
  4. Go to:
    formatting link
    run the router exploits test. These are various attacks on routers some of which can hang a router. I don't know if they can actually reset a router but it would be an interesting test.
  5. Overheating wall wart power supply. The WRT54G can handle a large variation in power supply output voltage, but apparently can't handle much in the way of power supply noise. It should be 12VDC 1000ma for the current models of WRT4G.
  6. Turn off remote administration. You may have someone tinkering from the internet side.
  7. Any possibility that there is more than one DHCP server on your system (including the neighbors)? A 2nd DHCP server would confuse your clients sufficiently to make it APPEAR that you don't have connectivity. Power cycling the WRT54G would not fix that.
  8. BitTorrent might be using excessive router resources. See below.

That being said, I suggest you have a talk with your neighbor and have him bring his checkbook. You're paying for a 2Mbit/sec DSL connection and he is using 100% of it. BitTorrent is a very bandwidth unfriendly system that will use ALL of the bandwidth available, both in and out. I'm rather suprised that you are able to even use your DSL line when he's running BitTorrent. BitTorrent will also open as many streams (sockets) as possible. This what hangs some routers. The router tables were never intended or tested for opening hundreds of simultaneous streams. The number of connections and streams can be limited in your neighbors BitTorrent client software, so I suggest you advise him of the problem he might be causeing. However, this would only hang the router, not clear all the settings. Whatever his surfing habits, if you must tolerate this bandwidth hog, at least have him pay his "fair share" of the use. Otherwise, go into the QoS section of the router and configure his available bandwidth to less than half based on whatever criteria you find useful.

I suggest you determine the degree to which one of these hangs or resets really affects your router. I don't believe that you have to setup the router from scratch. Try this proceedure:

  1. Wait for it to hang. Unscrew both antennas to keep your neighbor off the WRT54G. Do NOT disconnect the power.
  2. Unplug the CAT5 cable to your boyfriends desktop. Wait about 10 seconds. Plug it back in. Test for connectivity with: http://192.168.1.1 This usually resets the client side ethernet and requests a new DHCP lease. If not, try: Start -> Run -> cmd IPCONFIG /RELEASE (wait about 10 seconds) IPCONFIG /RENEW If not, try rebooting his computer. If this works, try the internet. If everything is back to normal, then dive into the router setup at: http://192.168.1.1 and see if anything has been changed or trashed. If it shows all the settings at their default value, then other than the obscure possibilities previously listed, I have no clue. However, if the setting are still there, then your router is NOT being reset to defaults and does NOT require setup from scratch.

  1. If the above does NOT work, try the above cerimony after disconnecting the power on the router for about 10 seconds. If the router has been reset to defaults, the DHCP server should be functional and deliver an IP address to the client. You may need to reboot your boyfriends computer to get this to work. If you can get an IP address try: http://192.168.1.1 and look at the various pages of setup. DO NOT USE THE CDROM!!!! Are the settings back to defaults or are they the same as you previously have setup? If they are the same as before, the router is only being hung, not reset to defaults.

We can dive deeper after you determine if the router settings have been left alone, trashed, or reset to defaults.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Your new roommate is definitely abusing a shared resource, I'd tell him to either limit his client bandwidth to 1/3 of your DSL bandwidth (up _and_ down), or get his own DSL line. You'll at least get better response time, though it may not stop the crashing.

I've definitely seen Aezurus(sp?) crash routers, including the WRT54G, but power cycling them brings them back (until the next crash). It looks like even limiting the bandwidth and number of connections in the BitTorrent client doesn't help with the crashing, as you'll still get bazillions of connection attempts from external clients that the router has to deal with (and can't).

Now go back and re-read Jeff's post and follow his troubleshooting steps. 8*)

Reply to
William P.N. Smith

But your cable ISP might have a secret quota on uploading, which is something that BitTorrent "clients" also do a lot of. Your tenant's online activities might look to the cable company like you're running a server -- which is exactly what you're doing, thanks to your tenant. ISP areements or acceptable use policies sometimes explicitly forbid running servers on consumer accounts. Even without an explicit policy, some cable ISPs have been known to discourage servers on consumer accounts by shutting down a connection after a prolonged period of flat-out uploading.

Well, your router is the prime suspect; but the cable modem knows (from the differing hardware addresses) when you unplug it from the router and plug it into a computer, and it might reset itself on that event. Likewise, rebooting the router may also trigger a reset of the cable modem, restoring your Internet connection.

When you say that your "connection" dies every few days, it sounds like you mean that it's just your Internet connectivity that is lost. The router hasn't really crashed if you can still configure it. Check the its information pages to see what's happening to the router's WAN connection during these incidents.

In addition to the nuisance you're currently experiencing, your tenant's activities might bring on other woes. It's extremely unlikely that the RIAA or MPAA will sic their lawyers on you, but your ISP might take steps. Maybe it already is.

Reply to
Neill Massello

Unless, that is, it's overheating.

Reply to
optikl

Unhide your SSID... hiding it is pointless. It only confuses the issue when another router appears on the scene (next door) and they use the apparently vacant channel that you are using because they can't see if it's in use.

And move to WPA instead of WEP - much better.

As for the torrent hogging... quality of service is the way to go.

Doz

Reply to
Doz
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

That depends on which BitTorrent client is running and how it's configured. Good BitTorrent clients (e.g., Azureus) can be configured to be good neighbors.

Reply to
John Navas
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

Only if badly configured. (Deliberately?)

That shouldn't be a problem unless the router is brain damaged. I have zero problems running Azureus *properly configured* through a variety of routers.

Reply to
John Navas

What, the router or the client? Nothing deliberate, my Favorite Spouse doesn't like her network going away any more than I do.

What's a proper configuration? We've had a number of different settings, but mostly having to do with tuning bandwidth rather than total connections...

[Will limiting connections in the client reduce the number of connection attempts, or will other clients still attempt connections, and have to be denied?]
Reply to
William P.N. Smith
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

My current Azureus configuration (throttled conservatively) on 1500/384 DSL service:

Connection [ 8] Max simultaneous outbound connection attempts Transfer [ 16] KB/s global upload speed [ 80] KB/s global max download speed [ 3] Default max upload slots per torrent [ 80] Maximum number of connections per torrent [400] Maximum number of connections globally [ ] Allow multiple connections from the same IP Tracker Client Connect timeout (secs) [120] Read timeout (secs) [ 60] Queue Max simultaneous downloads [ 2] Max active torrents [ 8] Seeding DEFAULT VALUES

Depends on the client (over which you have no control).

The Auto Speed plugin for Azureus is a good way to maximize uplink and downlink performance without saturating the uplink (which can slow downlink to a crawl on an asymmetric connection like cable or DSL) or downlink (to the detriment of other users).

Reply to
John Navas

no, some firmware in retail routers cannot cope with lots and lots of open tcp connections, and it crashes. This is documented somewhere. Mark McIntyre

Reply to
Mark McIntyre

Mark McIntyre hath wroth:

Yep. I blundered across this one today: WRT54G v5 latest firmware includes: Firmware 1.00.6

- Resolves issues with WAP54G repeater mode

- Resolves issues with certain PPPoE connection

- Resolves issues with SES turning back on when applying settings

- Resolves issues with WPA allowing Shared key selection

- Resolves issues with web GUI ping function

- Resolves issues with using MSN whiteboard

- Resolves issues with instability when using Bittorent

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

...

Reply to
John Navas

John Navas hath wroth:

Worse than that. Linksys apparently went to the lowest bidder for the latest round of WRT54G hardware mutations. Instead of the evolutionary, Linux based, time test, and debugged firmware, they went to a totally new vendor that scribbled something different in VxWorks. V5 is effectively a totally new product, complete with starting up the learning curve from zero. It's not just the lack of load testing. It's that Linksys doesn't have a clue what users actually do with the products.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

That's strange, must be your "tuning to take it easy" configuration.

Every single low-end (under $100) router I tried a few months ago would crash or hang in less than a day with Azereus keeping a 15M/2M FIOS line busy.

We're trying your tuning hints here now...

Reply to
William P.N. Smith

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