Ranger American yahoos.

Here in Tampa they hire non english speaking imigrants, and pay them about $7 and hour with no benefits. Many of them also drive their own personal vehicles.

Jim Rojas

An long time client of mine is buying a new home. The builder won't let us wire it, and they don't offer a prewire only. So my client said fine I'll buy the system and have my company (us) rip it out when I move in. What am I getting for my money? No response. What kind of alarm and what devices/keypads. We don't know, you'll have to call the alarm company. He does, about 10 times. Finally, he gets hold of someone in Florida or somewhere...What am I getting in my new home with the security system Ranger Amercian is installing. We don't know..but's it's full upgradable. What do you mean, you don't know what you are installing in my home? We'll have a rep call you. The rep calls and HE DOESN'T KNOW EITHER! My client doesn't know and can't find out if; they are doing all openings (up and down), how many keypads, motions...etc..nada zilch.

But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector, extra motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!!

What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not what the client needs or wants.

Looks like they are affliated with ADT too.

Portion of client's email to me:

a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe). b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use, nor can they advise me on how to obtain such information. c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them to prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master bedroom. This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors, or any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between the home-owner and the security company.

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All you have to do is check with a few neighbors that took the option.

1. They use the DSC PC1555 exclusively.
2. They only install 1 keypad most times.
3. They only install 1 inside siren, which is looped to an optional outside siren in the garage attic area.
4. They do prewire for a motion & smoke, but usually run the wiring to the attic hatch nearest the panel.
5. The ran a Cat 5 cable to the dmarc or to the home networking box.
6. They don't do custom installations. Their technicians would then be required to think...which is not allowed.

They run the company like a giant boiler room manned by robots.

Let them install their junk. Then afterwards call a real alarm company that will listen to your needs.

Jim Rojas

Jim, Thanks for the insight.

R.

| > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector, | > extra | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!! | >

| > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not | > what | > the client needs or wants. | >

| > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too. | >

| > Portion of client's email to me: | >

| > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe). | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use, nor | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information. | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them | > to | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master bedroom. | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors, or | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between | > the | > home-owner and the security company. | >

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Your customer needs to tell his contractor to go f*ck himself. Your contract is with the homeowner, not the contractor. The homeowner is paying for the house, and the contractor has nothing to say about additional work the homeowner contracts for.

Obviously, the contractor has a deal with the other alarm company to do prewires, but that is not your problem, nor is it your customer's problem, since he didn't agree to it. Don't take any crap from the contractor, it's not his decision to make.

- badenov

In my area they only use that huge dsc home wiring unit and it always goes in the master bdrm closet.

They always wire every opening, There is always a wire in the living room wall for a motion. They do wire the catv outlets, they do wire a cat5 jack in most every room and they homerun everything back to the home wiring unit.

Often times they run wires for additional speakers in the living rm ceiling.

They wire all the telephone jacks. They only use the dsc 1555's created for them.so you can't change the default adt installer code. They are adt's biggest dealer.

Usually the jobs are done right and well but that will vary by area.

They often do upgrade their systems in new homes but its always a 'package' type upgrade.

The basic pack includes the prewire and trim out. Upgrade can include: The telco wiring & jacks. The catv wiring & jacks. The cat5 wiring & jacks. Two satellite dish drops is an upgrade.- not included in catv wiring & jacks. The additional ceiling speakers. I have seen them add an additional motion sensor in front entry if there is a lot of large glass openings. Never seen them install a glass break although they do offer it as an option.

I see their sales van full salesmen at least once a week going to visit in my area.

They contact home buyers as soon as builder tells them somebody has purchased the home being built and they offer all the other wiring options.

In some subdivisions the builder pays for the whole shebang for each home and just adds it into the price but many times RA meets with each client while construction is going on and upsells changes. Often they call customers every week to remind them they are taking care of stuff even though customers tell them they don't want their service. They are real pests but of course this is why they are so successful.

Here's the latest from my client:

""Good Evening Rob, and thanks for the info.

In the days since we last corresponded, I've spent a fair amount of effort trying flesh this thing out for myself, too. Your friend has given you pretty good info (meaning Jim Rojas), and the whole situation stinks.

Firstly, you're right about Ranger American, they are an amateurish, "cookie-cutter" operation lacking sophistication or even basic business practices. I won't bore you with a litany of my frustrating contacts with them up to this point.

I spent an hour or so up at the development yesterday walking through an identical house now just finishing the framing/wiring phase. It appears that the downstairs windows and doors all are pre-wired with standard magnetic switches, and the upstairs window over the patio roof is pre-wired as well. None of the others upstairs are addressed. Pre-wiring for a motion sensor in the family room (the cone covering the area from the back sliding door up toward the front door area). One keypad in the utility room.

And one spare wire above the attic access hatch, which is coiled and stapled to an inside rafter above.

No attention to garage, etc.

It appears that Builder Name is immovable on the pre-wiring, which is strange in that the sound system subcontractor is allowed to sell and pre-wire whatever they want. So... we'll make a serious run at the construction superintendent late this week or early next. If he agrees, I'll pay Ranger American to run whatever additional wires that you advise.

But my hopes aren't high, Rob, because Ranger American really is a company of losers who give your industry a bad name. If there is flexibility in the situation, I'm quite willing to allow them to think that they'll get my business, and pay them for the extra wiring. But you are our security man. Period.

So, I'll need you to simply give us good advice, and reliable equipment. We know that we'll need a new panel and two (maybe three) keypads. We know we'll want a discreet motion sensor downstairs and up, and glass break sensors. Obviously we want to integrate smoke, and hopefully CO. And some sort of garage solution. We may have to simply and reluctantly accept the wireless approach for some components.

When it's all said and done, we may drink a bottle of wine and throw a PC

1555 into the canal. We'll spend the money to get a system that affords us the reliability we always had in the last house (actually this will be the third house we've done for him in the past 15 years).

So, I'm hopeful that some late afternoon soon we can meet and take a look at the apartment here, and also run up to the Meritage development. As always, I'm most appreciative of your time and assistance. If need be, I'll pay for your time to take a peek at the new house (or one like it).

John D ""

| > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector, | > extra | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!! | >

| > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not | > what | > the client needs or wants. | >

| > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too. | >

| > Portion of client's email to me: | >

| > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe). | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use, nor | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information. | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them | > to | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master bedroom. | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors, or | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between | > the | > home-owner and the security company. | >

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It doesn't quite work that way, unfortunately. The house is not owned by my client until he closes on the house. The contractor (tract builder) has an exclusive contract with Ranger American. I've been on both sides of the issue, having had exclusives with builders myself so I can understand both sides of the issue. The difference is that we would always accomodate the buyer, if the buyer wanted to buy extra wiring so the could add more devices and they were willing to pay us I had no problem with that. My theory was that I always had a shot at getting their business away from whomever they might be going with by addressing their needs...sometimes it panned out, sometimes not, but in any event I wasn't running the extra wiring for free sooo no skin off my nose.

Thanks! Looks like they offer more where you are. Where are you? If you don't wanna post that just be general.

Thanks, Rob

| > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector, | > extra | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!! | >

| > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not | > what | > the client needs or wants. | >

| > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too. | >

| > Portion of client's email to me: | >

| > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe). | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use, nor | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information. | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow them | > to | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master bedroom. | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, glass | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors, or | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options between | > the | > home-owner and the security company. | >

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phx here....... I just checked one of their prewires...blow & go...and big clunky contacts on the windows they do do...and cheep 2 conductor for windows that the do do.

| > Thanks, | > Rob | >

| > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO detector, | > | > extra | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!! | > | >

| > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, not | > | > what | > | > the client needs or wants. | > | >

| > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too. | > | >

| > | > Portion of client's email to me: | > | >

| > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable of | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe). | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they use, | > nor | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information. | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not allow | > them | > | > to | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master | > bedroom. | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, | > glass | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage sensors, | > or | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options | > between | > | > the | > | > home-owner and the security company. | > | >

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Yes, they like using that 22/2 zip wire. I tried talking them into using

22/4 for all new prewires, but of course my suggestion fell on deaf ears. Something to do with saving money... :)

Jim Rojas

A problem with companies that have to use "approved" parts/devices...the contacts they used are so big they don't fit the reveals on the windows, so they end up sticking the magnets to the glass. Looks lovely on a 900,000 $ house (or any house for that matter).

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| > | > Thanks, | > | > Rob | > | >

| > | > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO | > detector, | > | > | > extra | > | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I would do | > | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them either!!! | > | > | >

| > | > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money only, | > not | > | > | > what | > | > | > the client needs or wants. | > | > | >

| > | > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too. | > | > | >

| > | > | > Portion of client's email to me: | > | > | >

| > | > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully capable | > of | > | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't believe). | > | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that they | > use, | > | > nor | > | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information. | > | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not | > allow | > | > them | > | > | > to | > | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the master | > | > bedroom. | > | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO detectors, | > | > glass | > | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage | > sensors, | > | > or | > | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market options | > | > between | > | > | > the | > | > | > home-owner and the security company. | > | > | >

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They pay 45 cents each per contact...They no longer use recessed contacts on windows due to voiding the window warranty, plus the water leaks over time. Not worth the hassle.

Jim Rojas

Wow..the really good ones eh? I don't use recessed on windows anymore either, but I do use nice small and correctly colored switches that fit the application.

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| > | > | > Thanks, | > | > | > Rob | > | > | >

| > | > | > | > But get this; they will not upgrade. He wants smokes, and CO | > | > detector, | > | > | > | > extra | > | > | > | > motions, glassbreaks in every lower level room (the way I | > would | > do | > | > | > | > it)...they won't do it and they won't prewire for them | > either!!! | > | > | > | >

| > | > | > | > What morons. Just shows you they are interested in the money | > only, | > | > not | > | > | > | > what | > | > | > | > the client needs or wants. | > | > | > | >

| > | > | > | > Looks like they are affliated with ADT too. | > | > | > | >

| > | > | > | > Portion of client's email to me: | > | > | > | >

| > | > | > | > a.. The panel and keypad that they will supply are fully | > capable | > | > of | > | > | > | > handling any upgrade package that we wish (which I don't | > believe). | > | > | > | > b.. They have no product information on the equipment that | > they | > | > use, | > | > | > nor | > | > | > | > can they advise me on how to obtain such information. | > | > | > | > c.. Most disturbingly, she also tells me that XXXXX will not | > | > allow | > | > | > them | > | > | > | > to | > | > | > | > prewire for any upgrades aside from a second keypad at the | > master | > | > | > bedroom. | > | > | > | > This means that any integration of smoke detectors, CO | > detectors, | > | > | > glass | > | > | > | > break sensors, upstairs perimeter switches on windows, garage | > | > sensors, | > | > | > or | > | > | > | > any other items would have to be handled as after-market | > options | > | > | > between | > | > | > | > the | > | > | > | > home-owner and the security company. | > | > | > | >

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But yet the morons still drill out the sliding doors & the custom made front doors...same warranty issue....duh!

I use surface mounts myself with the terminal screws. On the front door we use recessed contacts with terminal screws and a rare earth magnet glued on the door...no warranty problems, as long as we don't drill the door itself.

Jim Rojas

I've never thought about the front door, what warranty issues?? js

When you drill the top of the door for a standard recessed magnet, it sometimes voids the warranty, depending on the manufacturer.

Jim Rojas