Phone Jack Locations?

I'm curious about what the experts around here have to say about having the phone jack either in or on the panel. Or, I guess, not using one at all.

I'm not sure if it's a UL requirement to have it easily available, but it seems like a huge hole in the system's integrity.

For example, over Christmas we had a customer who had his phone line cut. Probably only the third time it's happened in almost 15 years for us. I went there and expected to see damage to the demarc box outside. But no, they cut the wire coming out of the jack instead (unplugging too easy?). Obviously it was someone familiar enough with the place to know where to find the (not so well hidden) panel. But this seems to be a good case where the jack should have been in the panel instead.

I've always been told that the jack should be outside so it can be unplugged by the customer if the panel is going psycho and keeps taking over the phone line for no reason. I doubt 5% of our customers (residential or commercial) know about this, many don't even know where to find the panel.

Reply to
shady
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I always installed the RJ31X inside the locked panel and gave the owner the keys to the cabinet. It reduces the likelihood of someone "accidentally" disconnecting the panel.

Phone techs like to have it accessible but I never much cared what they like. I believe it makes the system a little more secure if the RJ31X is not easily accessible.

I figure if they know where the panel is they should also be able to open it should they need to disconnect the RJ.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

RJ jacks should be installed so that the customer can easily disconnect the system if the communicator/panel locks him out of his phone line. That having been said, use a panel that provides supervision of the telco jack. If that's not possible (phone line monitoring isn't an option in programming), you can use another pair of wires in the jack to supervise the physical connection to the jack (if someone unplugs it, it will put a zone in the panel into "trouble"). There are also line monitor modules available with outputs you can tie into a spare zone on the burg panel. Some businesses are paricularly prone to "inside jobs" where an employee may know enough to compromise the security system. Using contacts with built-in end-of-lines, panels that monitor the physical phone line, anti-masking PIR's, and an alternate means of transmitting an alarm/supervisory signal to your CS (like cell backup) will help alleviate a lot of your client's concerns in this respect. I often find that it's particularly helpful if the system is programmed to transmit opening and closing signals along with zone bypass information. The customer can call the station and request status of the system as well as when the opening/closing actually happened.

Reply to
Frank Olson

Frank,

I believe you're in BC too (or at least someone around here is). So between you and Bass, I guess it's a matter of it SHOULD be... or it MUST be... outside the panel.

Phone jacks are one of the reasons I'm glad not to be using the Simon systems anymore.

And in this Christmas case, there is phone line monitoring (DSC 1555), but not much use to it when it just sets off the siren and no one hears it. Although I added a cell backup today for them too.

Reply to
shady

It should be protected against tampering or inadvertant disconnection. Outside the panel anything can happen. Inside the panel problems are less likely to happen. Nothing is 100%. I've seen one case where a homeowner thought the RJ31X was a convenient place to plug in an extension phone for use while working in the basement. He forgot to restore the panel connection, thereby disabling the monitoring. We did daily test on all residential accounts and open/close monitoring on all commercial accounts so the problem was discovered when they failed to send a test that night. The keypad beeping woke them up. If the system wasn't set up for daily test reports we might not have known the client was not being monitored.

Cellular backup is a plus though some cell units are configured to only take over once the panel tries and fails to get through. I prefer the arrangement where the cellular takes over as soon as there's a loss of voltage on the POTS line and the panel immediately sends a trouble report to the central station. If your system has the options, I suggest you consider configuring it that way. If your CS charges too much for daily tests, at least go with weekly tests.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Residential...attached to outside of panel. Commercial...locked inside the panel.

Reply to
Crash Gordon

The "debate" (if you want to call it that) about the RJ location has been a topic that's frequently come up in the newsgroup. I for one won't install an RJ jack inside a can in a residential alarm application. Another frequent poster here advocates that it should be and that the keys to the can be given to the home-owner. I know many such home-owners who've asked me why we don't lock the can, but secure the lid with sheet metal screws instead. First off, all our cans are mounted in an out-of-the way location (never the front hall or laundry room closet - that's just plain too obvious). The main system is always secured behind several "layers" of alarm detection from door/window contacts, glass breaks to PIR's. Putting the RJ jack *inside* the can just doesn't make sense to me. Mounting the can near a place where the jack could be viewed as a "convenient place to plug in an extension phone for use while working in the basement" (or whatever) probably isn't the best location for it either (I've seen cans mounted in crawspaces and it makes troubleshooting the system a major pain).

All my customers know the reason for the RJ jack. They never touch it. I think that if you explain it's purpose properly, your customer will understand that it's *not* a "phone extension" but an integral part of their security system and should only be accessed in an emergency (in the event the panel's been compromised by lightning or a voltage surge that may wind up frying the communicator). Putting it inside a locked can is the equivalent of not installing it at all IMO. I know of too many customers that have lost their key to the can over the years (it's not something that they think is important enough to put on their keychain and I would discourage them from doing *that* anyway). Some of my customers are elderly. I can't imagine 68 year-old Mrs. "Smith" taking a screw driver to the box in an attempt to pry it open so she can unplug the RJ jack to use the phone.

You've recognized that your customer's security can be easily compromised by a single "snip" at the side of the house. Use this in a newsletter to the rest of your customers. Give them the option of hardening their telephone line through upgraded physical protection and offer them the cell backup option as well. Our contracts actually require our customer to sign off acknowledging that they *don't* want the cell back-up option and that they fully understand that any system employing a digital communicator can be compromised through the loss of the telephone line (for any reason). This last little tidbit is something Jack Stevens posted some time ago. *That's* one of the reasons I so enjoy this Newsgroup (and what really keeps me coming back).

Reply to
Frank Olson

You must have some smart customers there. I've actually had someone from Telus take the jack from a Lynx and use it as a new jack in another room. Mind you the system wasn't being monitored at the time, but still, it's not even the right jack for a phone line. Come to think of it, I haven't installed any systems for any of the local Telus employees... should be an interesting day if I ever do.

Back to the customers though, many of ours lose their manual in the first week (or day). Some, who have keyfobs, don't remember their own code anymore. Others who have keyfobs insist on getting them but then leave them hanging with the rest of the keys and forget about them. We get dozens of calls when daylight savings time begins and ends on changing the clock. Keypad emergency buttons? Where? I've always screwed the panels shut instead of locking them, so I haven't had too many problems with lost keys. Although I have the professional grade universal panel key anyway.

I kind of wish DSC would have videos included with all their kits. Sort of like Simon did/does. We usually have our sales guy go back after a few days for any questions/comments/more training/etc. But from a customer's perspective, I imagine that video could be more helpful for simple questions.

I'm not sure that reminding a couple thousand people of this kind of thing would be a great idea. A few of these people seem like they're getting a system just to get a better idea of how it works. That's about 3 steps away from using that info to break into another place.

Fortunately, in many newer homes, the demarc box is somewhere inside the house.

Reply to
shady

We generally put them inside the can and explain what it is, where it is (show them) and how and under what circumstances they disconnect it.

Reply to
JoeRaisin

Nope. Just ones that have been educated properly. :-)

The guys I work with frequently all know how to install an "eight position jack".

I have customers that can pull out the manual from the refridgerator they purchased in 1963. I have one guy that's kept all the owners manuals for every Ford (plus one Edsel) he's owned since 1949.

I can't remember my own home phone number... It's "2" on my cell phone's speed dialer. :-)

Is that the long silver one with the big rubber handle on the end?? Mine says "KLEIN" on the side!! :-)

Make your own. It's not that hard. We've done that and used the "upgraded keypads" in it as well... It's an excellent marketing tool. I don't know how many fixed English keypads I've upgraded to the custom LCD. You try to sell 'em to the customer initially and most will say "I just need a basic security system, not something really fancy to look at", or "Money's a bit tight right now. Give me the basics and we'll go from there". After they see the video a few times, about 95% will call back and want to upgrade. Works great for selling "perimeter protection" as well. If you *show* someone how something works they'll

*see* the benefit much more readily. We've started leaving the video (on VHS, DVD or CD) as part of the sales presentation. The sales guys love it.

It is, believe me.

That's been often debated here as well. Most of the perps are so strung out on drugs these days, they figure yanking the interior siren box off the wall means they've disabled the system. When the "men in blue" show up they're still in the house searching for loot.

The Telus nimrods must be smarter in your end of town.

Reply to
Frank Olson

Would be nice if I could go back and follow up on training myself. Just doesn't happen though. We had a huge rash of break ins over Christmas, I'm the only installer for our little company in our little town, and we're booked for the next month or two solid. Time is simply not an option anymore.

There's more Telus stories, but maybe another day. Or was the sigh for someone actually using a Lynx system? If so, I agree, especially the ones where the batteries can be removed from the top of the panel. But it was there before I was, so I was kinda stuck with it.

We have a couple people like this. On the other hand, we also have a few people who have their codes written on a card, under the panel. You guessed it, Simon 2's from the doorknocker sales people.

Not quite... mine is a two piece key. The first piece in a long silver one with a plastic handle on one end and a flat blade on the other. The other piece strongly resembles a hammer.

If this is Telus smart, I can't wait till I get enough brain damage to get hired. If that doesn't pan out, I could always look forward to a career as a drywaller. :)

Reply to
shady

I use a cordless panel key...works great. I love when all the pins fly out of the lock.

Reply to
Crash Gordon

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