Firelite MS5024UD

They unplugged the phone line to get their phones to work? Ain't it on a dedicated line?

| > We have had a couple recurring problems with this system. | >

| > It went into alarm once just after installation indicating an alarm with a | > single pull station. The pull station had not been activated and there | > was | > nothing wrong with the wiring to it. | >

| > At one time it locked up and locked up one of the phone lines regularly. | >

| > Firelite told us we needed a new EPROM for it which we got and installed. | >

| > We have had no problems for several months until about 3 days ago. | >

| > The system for no apparent reason went into alarm. It did not send any | > signals. When I sent a service tech to the site the following day there | > was | > nothing showing on the display, but the bell circuit was still buzzing | > weakly. None of the devices had been tripped. It had locked up the phone | > lines and the customer had unplugged the phone line jacks to clear up | > their | > lines for use. The panel appeared to be locked up. He powered down and | > powered back up the system and it appeared to operate correctly. | >

| > By looking at my central station record it appears to have had its | > malfunction between the first and second auto test signals that it sends | > every night. | >

| > I have not been back over the to do a complete test on the system, but it | > is | > reporting auto test signals properly now. I received a call from the fire | > department today. They want me to send them a letter guaranteeing this | > system will work. I can't do that because is not the first time this | > panel | > has locked up. | >

| > Power seems to be fine. Phone lines appear to be fine. What do I do. | > I am getting very frustrated with this system. I am ready to rip it out | > and | > install something else in its place. Everything is installed correctly | > and | > when we check everything its all hooked up correctly and tests out | > properly. | >

| > There are only a handful of devices on this system. Its very easy to test | > each circuit. There are: | >

| > Sprinkler flows and tampers | > One smoke detector | > One bell | > One pull station | >

| > The Security Consultant | > Bob La Londe - Owner | > 849 S Ave C | > Yuma, Az 85364 | >

| > (928)782-9765 ofc | > (928)782-7873 fax | >

| | Check the date of manufacture on the board. FireLite must have had a "bad | batch". Order a new board and send the old one back for testing. | | |

No, and we have had this conversation here before. Its not required to be per NFPA. (Unless its changed in the last year) It must be wired to have line siezure, and in this case there are two lines in use, both are properly wired for line siezure. Some local jurisdictions (not this one) have mis-interpreted the NFPA to say that it must be on a dedicated line but they are wrong. As near as I have been able to determine only the CS receiver lines must be dedicated which of course they are and in huge rotary line groups. I believe that Phoenix is one of those who have said a FACP must have dedicated lines.

No. Are you thinking the transformer inside the panel is bad? Woudln't that continuously be bad though? I mean a transformer is a pretty simple device. Just a couple windings. Usually they either work or they don't.

Yep they certainly do, we can squeak by with the 2nd line on a shared line but not the primary.

| | No, and we have had this conversation here before. Its not required to be | per NFPA. (Unless its changed in the last year) It must be wired to have | line siezure, and in this case there are two lines in use, both are properly | wired for line siezure. Some local jurisdictions (not this one) have | mis-interpreted the NFPA to say that it must be on a dedicated line but they | are wrong. As near as I have been able to determine only the CS receiver | lines must be dedicated which of course they are and in huge rotary line | groups. I believe that Phoenix is one of those who have said a FACP must | have dedicated lines. | | -- | The Security Consultant | Bob La Londe - Owner | 849 S Ave C | Yuma, Az 85364 | | (928)782-9765 ofc | (928)782-7873 fax | |

Subject: Firelite MS5024UD Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms => Bob La Londe When I sent a service tech to the site the following day there was

Did you check the AC on the secondary of the x-former?

Subject: Re: Firelite MS5024UD Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms => Bob La Londe > Did you check the AC on the secondary of the x-former?

Yeah, they usually just work or don't work, but it may be under (or over) voltage. I'm not sure what the secondary output is supposed to be on that panel, it's just something that might be causing the glitches you've explained.

Did you check the voltages in troubleshoot mode?

MODE -> 8768 -> ENTER

Voltages can be viewed by performing the following steps: ? AC input voltage - press A and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? Battery voltage - press B and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? Zone 1 voltage - press 1 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? Zone 2 voltage - press 2 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? Zone 3 voltage - press 3 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? Zone 4 voltage - press 4 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? Zone 5 voltage - press 5 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? NAC #1 voltage - press b then 1 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? NAC #2 voltage - press b then 2 and then the [ENTER/STORE] key ? Resettable 24 volt power - press the RESET key and then the [ENTER/STORE] key

Either way it's the panel or the x-former causing the problems, I just wanted to remind you to check the transformer before replacing the panel.

Good luck.

-G

Check the date of manufacture on the board. FireLite must have had a "bad batch". Order a new board and send the old one back for testing.

I got a simular problem with this model panel. Doing sprinkler test, all of the signals and restores went though to central just fine except the panel display never recognized the signals. Stayed "System Normal" through the test. Any thoughts other than replace panel.

Firelite claims the number one cause of panel lockups where lines stay siezed are the CS receiver. They want to know what brand model and revisions CS receivers the panel is calling into.

As someone who works in a central station with several brands of receivers accepting tens of thousands of signals a day that is absurd.

Any panel that locks up due to a CS receiver does is a panel I would have nothing to do with

I forwardew Marks Comments to the Firelite tech I have been dealing with last night. So far no repsonse this morning.

How ever his last messenge the day before yesterday said.

"When a panel locks up, or if the lines stay latched or always on, it is usually due to a non-UL listed receiver compatible with our panels. It is quite common."

I have heard some claims before when a Firelite panel is reporting to an Osborn Hoffman receiver. I had some problems with a Firelite panel on a newly installed system with unfined signals coming in that the panel isn't capable of sending. One of the questions Firelite ask is what receiver is it reporting to. I wasn't sure as I use a third party center. As it turns out I was not connected to a Osborn Hoffman receiver but they seem to beleive that this receiver and Firelite equipment are not on the same page for what ever reason.

I find it incredible that a UL listed Fire alarm panel would physically lock up due to a compatability problem with a receiver, not releasing phone lines is one thing, although even that shouldn't happen, in my opinion if the call is not completed correctly then the panel should simply disconnect and try again up to the maximum number of attempts programmed into the panel, but it shouldn't affect the local operation of the panel in anyway. If its possible for a receiver to disable a Fire alarm system, then its probably possible for poor line conditions to do the same thing.

Doug L

WHATTTTT??????

What panel have you EVER heard of that will lock up if it can't communicate with the reciever? If it can't communicate, it hangs up and tries again. JEEEEEEZ. Suppose this system was in an unoccupied building? Duuuuh, it's just going to stay locked up until somebody happens to notice it? How many service calls does it take to fix it? Who pays for them? Firelite?

I'd tell them it's damn well time that they do something about it and to get back to me when they do, so I can start buying their panels again.

Then you can add, very politely, that you're going to help them in their efforts by putting the word out on the various Internet trade groups, that you participate in and at your alarm association meetings, on a regular basis.

If you wanted to carry it further, you can write a letter to Firelite president, outlining the problem, quoting the converstation and/or with copies of e-mail messages, asking how they are going to address this problem. Any referral to the problem in their reply will be an acknowlegement that it exits.

After receipt, send a copy of the correspondence to the local and State Fire Marshal, Underwriters and any of the other agencies that are on Firelites approval list, with your comments on the problem, and CC a copy to Firelite. The results won't be quick, but it will eventually be corrected.

As long as no one complains and the panel has been listed and approved, all Firelite has to do is keep putting it off with comments such as you recieved.

I can't speak for Osborne-Hoffman receivers since I've never messed with one but it still seems like a stupid suggestion by Fire-Lite's support. Regardless of which format you are using and it doesn't matter if the the two devices cannot communicate with each other at all that panel SHOULD NOT lock up.

I've seen problems in the past with other manufacturer and in the end it's a panel problem that later gets quietly fixed in the next BIOS revision. Of course only AFTER that fix is in place do they bother to confirm the problem existed.

I'm sorry but that is total bullshit, I have NEVER heard of a panel locking up because of a receiver.

BTW What format are you using?

Exactly!

Umm I...hope you umm....took my name.....off ....it....?

:)

LOL. Mark Leuck said.... Yeah. I just cut pasted the message. No names or headers. LOL.