Cox ARRIS Touchstone

Looks like VoIP, smells like Voip...why are they (they=Cox) telling people that alarms are no problem on this thing?

The first one I tripped on (almost literally) because they cut the incoming lines at the SNI then installed the ARRIS box under a BED on the far side of the house. It's plugged into the Coax outlet, the AC and also a telco jack...I think they're back-feeding the house phones that way...FREEKIN' WHY????

Alarm does not transmit over it.

Reply to
Crash Gordon
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IME, they don't know didly dick about alarms, line seizure, or much of anything else. It's just another way to make a buck, and who gives a good crap about the alarm guy?

I am astonished at how many people think that when the trouble light goes on and their phones are dead that the alarm caused it. Cuz the phone guy said so.

BTW, I saw Ernie Sunday and he had nice things to say about you. js

Reply to
alarman

Yah, I know...this is just a new stage of dumpin' on the alarmco.

Say HI to Ernie next time you see them. My bro' and I had fun putting that one in...too freekin cold up there if you ask me :-) Nice cabin too...well it's more than a cabin really.

| > The first one I tripped on (almost literally) because they cut the | > incoming | > lines at the SNI then installed the ARRIS box under a BED on the far side | > of | > the house. It's plugged into the Coax outlet, the AC and also a telco | > jack...I think they're back-feeding the house phones that way...FREEKIN' | > WHY???? | >

| > Alarm does not transmit over it. | >

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

Just got off the phone with Cox, they say that Arris Touchstone is NOT VoIP (although it looks like it). Tech said it?s a just a SNI..NAT NAU( something with an N) that is INSIDE the house instead of outside. The outside ones were dying in the heat. BUT if that?s true I dunno how the hell we?ll get seizure since they plug it in anywhere in the house and backfeed the lines that way. AND it runs on AC with a small battery backup built in. If it gets kicked out of the telco jack we?d be done?same if there was a long power outage.

I?ll know more on Saturday when we try to fix #1 if we get that working we are off to #2. This will be a BIG problem as Cox is saying they are replacing ALL outside digital phone interface boxes with this new thingie.

| > The first one I tripped on (almost literally) because they cut the | > incoming | > lines at the SNI then installed the ARRIS box under a BED on the far side | > of | > the house. It's plugged into the Coax outlet, the AC and also a telco | > jack...I think they're back-feeding the house phones that way...FREEKIN' | > WHY???? | >

| > Alarm does not transmit over it. | >

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

hopefully there will be an extra pair that you can use to feed the panel first and then the house phones from there. you may have to follow the wire from new demarc to old demarc and make sure you have continuity on that extra pair. may have to benie that extra pair together at each phone jack till you get back to the RJ31X feed. ain't it fun?

Reply to
Frog

Yah..that's what I'm hoping we can use spare pairs to restore the backfeed to the old SNI where our seizure line is...OR seize it above in the attic where they are plugged in - problem there would be if the client moves the Touchstone box to another telco jack.

Sucks.

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| > I?ll know more on Saturday when we try to fix #1 if we get that working we | > are off to #2. This will be a BIG problem as Cox is saying they are | > replacing ALL outside digital phone interface boxes with this new thingie. | | hopefully there will be an extra pair that you can use to feed the panel | first and then the house phones from there. you may have to follow the | wire from new demarc to old demarc and make sure you have continuity on | that extra pair. may have to benie that extra pair together at each | phone jack till you get back to the RJ31X feed. ain't it fun?

Reply to
Crash Gordon

yeah, that happeend to me. got everything working and then they decided they did'nt like having that little box in the living room and moved it to the upstairs offfice. Then they couldn't figure out why alarm wasn't working? so I charged them again to fix it!

Reply to
Don

One of these is under a bed...the other is on the kitchen counter. This is totally stooopppidddd.

Reply to
Crash Gordon

You know what else is stoopid about these guys...we spend an inordinate amout of time/energy and money installing a really nice clean structured wiring box (the big ones) and these jamokes come in and hang this giant modem looking device out the bottom of the box!

Just got a call from another client we just finished...asking ME what this stupid box is hanging out of our closed structured wiring box.

Now I gotta explain and fix it????

PITFA

Reply to
Crash Gordon

If you only need one line there's a simple solution. Make up a short connector that swaps R/G for B/Y with a male plug at one end and a female jack at the other end. Connect the phone device through this dongle to any telco jack in the house.

Connect all of the B/Y pairs from telephone jacks (not from the RJ31X though) together at the old SNI location. Connect the B/Y bundle to the R/G from the RJ31X at the SNI. Then connect the R/G bundle (as usual) to the Y/B return feed from the RJ31X at the SNI.

This way, no matter which jack the client plugs his phone device into the line will be fed through the RJ31X and out to the rest of the house phones.

Possible problems are (1) if he later decides to add a second line he'll need those Y/B pairs and (2) if he ever forgets to use the dongle the alarm will work but there will not be any line seizure -- not a good thing.

It's not perfect but if your client is reliable about using the dongle it'll provide reliable line seizure. That is no guaranty that this type of phone service will work for alarm transmission. That's something you'll need to test for yourself.

Best of luck.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Crash let me clue you into something....

THEY ALL SAY ITS NOT VOIP!!

I guess it's a marketing thing to try to differentiate yourself from everyone else

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Ill find out saturday. This guy swears it's not voip, and that voip may be a future option.

I'll let you guys know what happens.

Reply to
Crash Gordon

Welp, it's an old house but it probably had at least 3 pr (Im hoping) and telco is not home run, so all I have to do is change the output of the Touchstone box to a spare pair and backfeed it to the SNI then reconnect my seizure there.

First I'm gonna run a temp line from panel to this thing and see if it will transmit over it, then we'll tackle the rest of it.

| Bass Home Electronics | 941-866-1100 | 4883 Fallcrest Circle | Sarasota · Florida · 34233 |

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

That's essentially the same as what I was saying.

Sounds like a plan. BTW, although they claim it's not VoIP, it's probably similar in nature. CATV has no central switching network like the telco's. The voice would have to be digitally encoded, broken into packets, sent over the network and decoded back into analog at the other end. You might still run into the same problems as with VoIP.

I'll be interested to hear how it works out for you.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Reply to
Roland Moore

Thing is that we've had no problems with their exterior mounted boxes and alarms, so if this guy is telling the truth and this is just an "inside" version of the ext box it should work. I have a feeling though he's talking out his crack.

| > I'll let you guys know what happens. | >

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

If it carries voice through a cable or DSL system it IS VOIP, it's all ip packets

Reply to
Mark Leuck

So then my home alarm has been transmitting fine over VoIP all these years (at least 6 years)? I've got VDSL here. So what version of VoIP is a problem for alarms?

Confused.

| > I'll let you guys know what happens. | | If it carries voice through a cable or DSL system it IS VOIP, it's all ip | packets | | | | | | | | | | | >

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

Here's what we found; Its a black box, powered by nearest ac outlet and plugged into nearest telco jack and nearest coax outlet. They cut the feed from the old SNI so only dial tone is coming from their interior feed. In doing so they cut us out since we are feeding from the old SNI.

The box is called Arris Touchstone "Telephony Modem" and has two RJ11 telco jacks on it, one USB (the small side of USB like what would be on a camera) a RJ45 that is labeled Ethernet (but is not used) and it has a small battery backup inside. The whole unit looks like an overgrown cable modem.

When we backfed their signal back out to the SNI and fed everything that way through our alarm, we got our seizure back and the alarm transmits without any problems. BOTH jobs we did today were like this.

PITFA though. My clients will collect from Cox especially since Cox said they did NOTHING to effect the alarm system when they did by cutting the wires at the SNI.

| > I'll let you guys know what happens. | >

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

Hi Crash.

Just to let you know, we had the same experience here when Cablevision started installing their version of VoIP. Of course they, at least, where calling it that. But they were just cutting the lines and then when they got a rash of complaints that the alarms were being disconnected, the alarm association and reps from the Cable company got together and some training courses were set up. A whole new procedure was instituted where the cable company first asks if the subscriber has an alarm system when they inquire about the service. This way, the cable company knows which technicians to send to do the installation. They know about line seizure and will ask the end user to test their alarm system before and after the install. I'm not so sure all the systems are line seized, but at least they're working until the next time we get out for a service call.

I've been sending notices out to all my clients, for about two years now, regarding the downside to VoIP, Vonage, etc. and about getting filters on DSL lines. I had forgotten all about DSL, until I went to one client for a service call on another matter, and just as a routine tried to send a signal to central and it didn't go through. I asked the client if she'd tested the system lately and she said yes, but they were slow in responding. I put the butt set on the line and heard the DSL carrier and asked if she had DSL installed since the last time I was here and got a yes. She had no idea that she should have called me to get some filters. From that time on, I've continuously sent out notices in all my billings about DSL and VoIP.

Compared to other alarm companies I've spoken to, I have relatively few VoIP conversions. But, then again, I can only presume that there are those clients out there that would need a rabid mongoose to jump out of the billing envelope with a " READ ENCLOSED NOTE" sign around it's neck, before they'd read a newsletter or warning notice.

Reply to
Jim

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