It's me

would that be the 'I'nternational 'B'rotherhood of licensed alarm technicians? of which rlb is not a memeber.

No, I suspect that it means something like..."idiot brigade" or "idiot bunch".....

I guess your definition includes me as well. I've been a locksmith for 35 years and installing alarms for 12 years, and I don't have a single license other than a normal business license. Why ? Cause their ain't none to get here in Ontario.

Is that right ? Sure as hell isn't ! But on the upside, it does cut out a lot of useless government red tape.....

RHC

I see nothing wrong with the 'no licenese' required. Let the 'market' decide who gets the business. those that do a good job get the business and those that don't .......don't. I believe in the market approach. I am a capitalist at heart. We don't need a bunch of govt yahoos who couldn't make it in the business world so they went to work for the govt telling us who we can pay to provide the sevices we need. Those that provide good service at a fair price survive and those that don't.........don't survive. And that goes for any service as fas I am concerned, doctors, dentists, tax preparers, hair cutters, you name it. Still have to follow code or 'acceptable practices' though. Caveat Emptor

Yes, I have to say, I feel much the same way. The only downside in a totally unregulated environment it that a lot of companies (in every industry) get away with things they shouldn't. And sometimes the consumer is not in a position to know that these things are even happening, until they get stuck ! On the upside, it does make it a lot easier for both good and bad companies to do business without a lot of prying, governmental do-nothing twits looking over your shoulder. And regulation doesn't seem to really weed out the bad companies either.

Of the two options, I'd much rather work in the unregulated environmnent we have here !

RHC

Well there you go ! We have a watchdog over our activities! Seriously, I wonder if he has ever done a show on security system installations !!

RHC

I guess that just means we're lower down on his scale of things to "expose", so we'll have to wait for next year for our turn....:))

RHC

OK... Your bike's ugly. I've seen better paint jobs on snow blowers.

Did I ever actually "promise" that?? I commented on the pop-ups on your site and one particularly *nasty* one (Winfixer) at that. You can deny they exist all you want. About a dozen people here have all experienced them, some have told you the source for the code, and a number of them have told you how to set your browser to view them. Some of the responses I've made in this thread haven't even been directed at you. I started a discussion. The fact that it happens to be about something that's particularly "near and dear" to you whould have prompted anyone else to do something. Calling me a liar wasn't exactly "constructive" (it was also the last thing I expected), was a downright *stupid* response (as it turns out), and it certainly isn't doing anything toward fixing the pop-up problem you *still* have with your website.

I believe you mean Zero down systems, Bob, and because I had a funding source, and due to the market leaning that way, they were easy to offer. At that time I was installing a LYNXREN with 2 doors, 1 motion, and a keyfob for zero down, while charging $24.99 per month for monitoring. Back then the LYNX kit had a cost of around $185.00, installers were earning $100.00 per basic, and sales commissions were $100.00 (hey they should all work for free, right?). The average lead cost (including rent, telephone, electric, insurance, workmen's comp, etc) was in the neighborhood of $200.00.

So my out of pocket expense was $585.00, and the contract had the client paying $899.64. The bank was funding me roughly $750.00. Wow, what a huge and unfair profit margin huh? If you're selling an alarm where your out of pocket expense is $585.00 do you sell it for $385.00? Installing dealers are entitled to profit, and no matter how much you, and Pinky, refer to the IB (that means installing bunch) as thieves, you're still not going to get anyone to throw on Santa suits and start giving away the ranch.

Now back when I was offering the LYNX your pal Bass was knocking self-contained systems, referring to them as junk, but he must have changed his tune because he now sells them on his website. The technology hasn't changed, so what other than an opportunity to profit caused Bass to suddenly offer this "junk" on his website?

The difference between Bass and Cooper is Cooper is a blatant bullshitter from the word go, but Bass is a sneaky bastard, and people who take it upon themselves to trounce one scammer (Cooper), while remaining pals with another blatant scammer (Bass), are either too stupid to notice the similarities or they seriously lack the integrity it takes to admit the error and confront the problem.

The difference between you and you is I am rude, crude, obnoxious, vulgar, and socially unacceptable but I tell it like it is, (whether you like it or not or whether you want to hear it or not) whereas you seem mannerly, polite, well-spoken (for a canuck), but your statements regarding installing companies, installers, and sales reps are totally absurd. Your knowledge of the industry is sorely lacking, and you have become the North American Paul using contracts in place of RFI. Yes, I hammer on Bass at any opportunity because it's entertaining, and I hope he never leaves. I seriously don't give a shit what he sells, and to whom, for any other purpose than to hammer him. Every thread he's involved in turns out to be a flame fest, and you often seem to find your way into the fray, so don't get your panties in a knot when someone calls you on the carpet for your hypocritical ways.

Now grab your skirt heels and throw the old PLONK on me because that seems to be your happy little way of avoiding people who think you are a FUCKING (added that one because I know it's your favorite) goof at times.

R.H.Campbell wrote:

Well in Ontario at least, ya still gotta do the job RIGHT, or Mike Holmes will come and kick your ass on TV! :)

It's the new popup blocker from Microsoft, Frank... you simply deny their existence and call anyone that points them out a liar, and the popups eventually go away.

Hmmmm, who on here actually owns a security business, i mean not works for one, who actually owns a business and uses it to feed themselves or their family with? I mean I know this is a newsgroup, basically the same as a yahoo chat room as far as professionalism, but still. .. Less hate.

I thing that most here, own their own business.

Other than end users (& semi regulars) I'd guess there are only3 or 4 that don't.

Mikey, J Sloud, Mark are employees. Maybe one or two more.

You know Tom, sometimes you can be downright entertaining ! I really don't want to "PLONK" you as you say; sometimes you and I can actually almost agree on a few things. Your cash flow on your freeby installs isn't bad; you're lucky you had a source of financing. Too many little guys try to go it alone financing it themselves and go t*ts up as a result. Glad to see you survived. I hope your attrition rate over the long is not too bad.

I think my knowledge of this industry is quite up to scratch. Nor as you keep assuming, do I have a problem with long term contracts in general; just when they are not called for...ie: when the customer has paid a full price up front (as all my clients do), or when the customer fully owns the panel outright (like takeovers). I personally believe they should be used only to pay for systems that are artificially low at the front end, which is (or was) the big way to sell to cost conscious consumers. But no matter how you or the rest of the industry slice it, there is simply nothing in it for the client; it's all slanted towards the alarmco (other than Bob Lalonde's approach which at least gives the client the benefit of some measure of guaranteed rate over time, and that's the ONLY valid reason I've ever heard frankly). I do honestly think that the drive for RMR has done nothing good for our industry, since it has slanted things away from comprehensive systems with better coverage. And maybe you are correct when you say this is partly my marketing gimmick, but why wouldn't I do this when no one else does. It gives me a decided advantage over everyone else locally, and I lose little in doing so (I have a standing offer for my customer base at 30 times monthly, which is close to what a 5 year contract is going for currently hereabouts). So rather than scratch with the 100 or so other companies trying to get that name on a long term contract, I can simply sit and wait for the phone to ring as word spreads! My biggest problem comes when ex-ADT clients don't believe I can do all I say at half the price they've been paying all these years, and I have to sit down and explain the facts of life to them !! Once I explain the cash flow, they understand things and usually buy on.....

And as far as RLB's site goes, I see no hypocracy in his selling the all in one systems even though he says he doesn't like them, and wouldn't install them. I happen to agree with him, I wouldn't either. But the client is the one making the choice, so why wouldn't he put them on his site to give his clients freedom of choice. I have no doubt that if they were to call him up and ask his recommendation, it sure as hell wouldn't be one of these squawk boxes. But that's no reason why he shouldn't have a wide variety of different makes and models of panels on his site. That's what any store does if they want to cater to the widest audience possible. And as we all know, he is running a store ! We can't on one hand promote the capitalistic approach when it comes to our clients and on the other hand run him down for his variety of products on his site. THAT is hypocracy !!

I don't deal in personalities; that is not my purpose here. I don't like or dislike anyone here. Other than Mikey who happens to be a fellow dealer locally, I have never met anyone here. I have spoken to a few of the folks here...RLB and Jim Rojas both, as well as Irv Fisher who no longer is part of the ng. I'm no ones particular friend or enemy for that matter, and I refuse to pass judgment on people that I haven't met, and in who's shoes I "haven't walked a mile" So if that makes me seeming to side with anyone, you're simply wrong. (sometimes I know how Switzerland must have felt during WW II). And if you or anyone else sees that as hypocisy, then TOUGH SH*T ! (I worked alongside US Marines in Goose Bay, Labrador as a student for quite awhile, and if anyone can teach you how to swear, they can... I learned from the best !!). I prefer to deal strictly with issues and ....yes....I don't like crude people. I don't associate with them in real life and I have no truck with them here. Frankly (and you can take this as gospel), I don't give a tinkers damn what you or anyone else here thinks of me personally. I'll say my piece and you can agree or disagree - that is your and everyone else's option (that's what the hell a newsgroup is all about ). If you or anyone else gets crude or ignorant, I simply tune you out. Life it too short to have to associate with people like that! . If I "plonk" someone, or choose to stop debating the merits of a point of view, it's usually because I've said my piece and nothing I say from that point on is going to add anything useful to the conversation. The other parties mind is made up, and that's ok too. But any further conversation means the thread usually heads downhill from there ! So I'm gone, pure and simple !. It's not a retreat; just a recognition there is no further point to discussing that issue any further !!

So I'll just hoist up my panties and retreat to the background quietly once again and enjoy the scenery.....toodles !!

RHC

"Where's my WEBTV?" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Lol that is soooo wrong!

jim you forgot about me....

"Jim" a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Well Tom, for all your banging on the keyboard, you did say a couple of things that warrant comment !

It seems you forget (or don't realize) that most clients pay me far more for installation of their systems than other dealers charge locally. That is why they pay me less on the monthly ongoing, and get a more comprehensive warranty and service package. But they still pay me; I or my son don't work for free - never have and never will ! This doesn't make my client base more or less upscale, or cheapskate in nature, just perhap more discerning of their overall LONG TERM costs ! In fact, if you were comparing clientele, although I certainaly can't prove it, I suspect that my client base is far more intelligent, discerning, and probably educated than the client base of a company that dealt in only the "no money down", "something for nothing" systems.

I too share your abhorence of the cheapy installs by both the nationals and the locals. I have to go out next week to look over a system that a client has asked me to takeover, and I dread going. It was installed by a local who's systems look like they have been installed by that proverbial chimp ! These days, I'm doing a major number of takeovers of large national customers who have either been shafted service wise, or have fallen victim to large nationals who can't seem to get their act together...you know, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing internally in the company, and everything falls apart for the client. Although national takeovers involve higher prices, it usually revolves around service issues (J. Shoud, are you noting this....)

Now as far as Cooper goes, he is a scammer pure and simple. We all know it, so I'm not going to pussyfoot around him. Like you, I'll call it as I see it. One look at his equipment and the nonsense he spouts should tell even a first grader he and his equipment are crap ! Any one that buys that rubbish deserves what they get.

RHC