Emergency Water Turn-Off?

selling

Yeah, good points. Seemed pretty strange to me as well.... there has to be more to it than what I was told.

I was wondering that myself. All I could figure was maybe if it were mounted in the meter pit (where I live the meter is usually in the front yard, with the customer responsible for everything after the meter), then the customer would be alerted to a leak in the line between the pit and their house.

ROFL. I would never have guessed that either.

I didn't find any references to patent counter-claims so it's conceivable they've learned a lot from their first model and are going to redesign it. Odd they'd run out of things to sell. That seems to be a bad thing have happen to a going concern.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Plenty of people have very long pipe runs between the meter and the house. External mounting would prevent serious underground water loss.

Yep, I learn a lot surfing the web. And sometimes, it's even RIGHT!

-- Bobby G.

D'oh! That's something that can be fairly easily avoided by at least shutting off the water before leaving for a long trip, or even a few days, if you're supercautious. I'll bet neither they nor their friends will

There tragedy is probably a good enough reason for everyoine reading this to at least install a moisture-sensing auto-shutoff system if nothing else. I'm sure that a moisture sensor mounted on the *ceiling* would have prevented much of the damage that occurred to your friends. One beneath the dishwasher would have left no evidence as the little leakage will have evaporated by the time they got home.

You bring up another interesting point. Many insurers will redline such a house for fear of future mold claims, etc. If your friends try selling it without disclosing the damage and un-insurability, they could end spending $K's more in legal fees and damages.

-- Bobby G.

HAHAHHAAHAH

Yep. Thats the whole thing though - isn't it? I'm still amazed at the number of people who believe that something is true because it is printed somewhere.

I guess it's always been true in the age of paper; a CRT makes little difference in the equation.

Otherwise phising and spam would be pointless.

Oh well, to get back on topic....

IF the new model can be mounted outside, the I'm HOPING they built in some sort of wireless communication to it.

While I personally know many people who would gladly fork over the $$ for a device that would tell them if they had a leak in their main line, and/or prevent a washing machine disaster, I don't think any of them would want their yard dug up to run a cable. (Obviously (hopefully) it's not likely that it's mandatory the new revs dictate outside mounting).

In my mind, mounting the device in the meter pit is only an option for new construction, if a cable run is required.

And then on the flipside; if they did come up with some sort of wireless scheme....... hmmmm. Reliability has to take a hit there.

So, I dunno.

I DO KNOW if the 2000 model were available today - and it behaved according to spec; I could sell at least 20 of them today.

(Well, I havn't seen pricing info yet)

In any event - this is all fascinating to me. Combine water loss savings + water damage savings + cashing in on the mold hysteria = a profit for all concerned.

Check out the Flo Logic at

Seems to be able to turn off the water after it runs for a preset amount of time (so the icemaker can be refilled, but the burst washer hose will cause a shutoff before too much damage is done), and can handle a 'home' or 'away' situation.

I'm looking into one of these after hearing about the neighbor's tale of woe: The last thing they did before they left their house for vacation was start the dishwasher. It malfunctioned, popped the door open, and ended up spewing hot water all over the kitchen for 10 days (big boiler in the basement and a full tank of oil meant there was plenty of hot water provided!). Water and steam damage to the house was, to say the least, extensive: The kitchen is a total loss, had to be stripped to the studs and sprayed to kill the mold. Wood wainscoting in the house swelled and popped off the walls, windows cracked as their wood frames buckled, wood floors warped, paint peeled off the walls, mold grew, and 2 months later they're still discovering side effects of all that steam. This in an antique house that had just had a top to bottom restoration. Insurance has paid out something like $80 thousand so far, and may not insure the house after this...

--- MJC snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

If you dug basements in this area (south Florida) they'd probably fill up with alligators. :^)

Ain't that the truth!

Interestingly enough, it's easy to find dozens of copies of the same bad information. Webmasters sometimes don't create their own web content. :-)

It will be interesting to see how they manage it.

I've read in more than one place (as if that matters!) that some jurisdictions are considering making these devices part of the building codes for new construction.

It's hard to evaluate vaporware!

-- Bobby

It seems every other night there's a film clip about someone in Florida fishing a gator out of their garage, their pool, their basement and God knows where else.

This weekend they showed a guy mowing the lawn that went down into a water filled gully and as he pushed toward the water, the gator shot out of the water and dragged it under. Another reason to own a Robomower in Florida. Better Robo than me.

I've seen gators subdued so often on TV, I'm confident that with just a loop stick and a BIG roll of nice, sticky and VERY strong duct tape I could bring a 7 footer at least to heel. And if there aren't any Petans around, a friend with a big Louisville Slugger might come in handy.

Why don't they tag gators in Florida the way they tag wolves in Yellowstone. The *ranchers* complain now, when a tagged wolf is shot. They like to know where the wolves are and fear an untagged one will now move into the territory. Here's an idea. Stun collars on wolves and gators and RFID's for toy poodles and sheep that activate them if the predator gets too close.

-- Bobby G.

Now that you mention it, here's a link to a few photos I took of gators in the wild. These were in a pond about 50 feet from the side of a road. I spotted them as I was driving by and got out to take a few pictures.

Those were nice but how about a close-up of a really, really big one.

No problem. Send me the picture and I'll FTP it to the website.

BTW, the big ones are nowhere near as dangerous as mid-sized ones. Big gators tend to be more wary of humans. Younger ones are more likely to approach or attack. Anything longer than about four feet is strong enough to pull a man into the water. They can all run much faster on land than you can but only for short distances. I've seen them move like a rattler when taking an unsuspecting ibis.

How about two simple solutions? Since you know when you're going to get packages (fedex stuff doesn't usually come blind) then put up a post-it note that tells them not to leave without ringing the bell. Then raise holy hell with the supervisor, IN PERSON, when they screw it up. It won't take long for them to stop screwing up. Bothering with cameras, sensors and the like just seems like a surpreme waste of effort.

Robert, How about just using something like the DoorbellFon product to ring all the phones in the house when the doorbell is pressed? Then you can pick up any phone in the house and tell the driver you're home and on the way to the door. Another thing you can do is sign a form that the Fedex and UPS drivers have that authorize them to leave packages in a predetermined place if you're not home. Some high value items still need a signature but everything else will be left without a signature. I put in a package drop door for them to leave stuf and that's been working great for me over the last few years. I also have a sensor on the package door that causes a chime to sound in the house and the Stargate to call my cellphone.

From:Robert Green ROBERT snipped-for-privacy@YAH00.COM

I think he wants you to provide it... by walking up right next to one and saying "Ahhhh"... ;-))

I knew what he meant. Was there something of interest which you wanted to say?

Nope. Just scattering gems and pearls in various threads that have wandered off topic... What do "gators" have to do with HA anyway??

That was the fatal flaw in my last attempt to solve this problem. I assumed they would *all* press the doorbell. Not so. I'm beginning to think that some of them are "Ghost Dogs" and are able to slip past PIRs like Ninja assassins. As I become more and more dependent on delivery services, it would be nice to have as much advance "prep" time as I can when someone's coming. After a lost "indirect" delivery I'm also trying to keep unattended package exposure to a minimum without having to resort to a drop-box.

Well, FedEx virtually forced a release on me after the indirect delivery. In investigating why it was apparently better business for them to give my package to strangers I found an incredible series of scandals with FedEx and their attempt to sell their routes off to drives as independent contractors. They reinvented the company store in one feld swoop.

The drivers were allegedly given so many packages to deliver in a day, they couldn't stop more than 20 seconds at each hop. Many drivers were barely hanging on: they had to buy the trucks, paint them, fuel them, maintain them, take whatever route and load FedEx wanted them to take with penalty clauses that caused many to throw in the towel. To try to get an edge, the drivers doubled up deliveries, to the point that if your lights were out or they somehow didn't think you were home, or they thought they could get away with it, they wouldn't even MAKE the stop and just give your package to the next stop on their route. It makes sense from their point of view and the way the structure was set up. Just Google FedEx Ground and independent contractor lawsuit for the details.

Anyway, I wandered. I need some pretty good AI to tell me when a package is about to be delivered and that a package is sitting on the porch, or between my front and screen door. We're having a local crime wave. That's in addition to stuff that arrives when I am not expecting it (backorders are real problem that way, and I had to drop one vendor who sent them without any email notification).

That's a good idea. Do the drivers use it religiously? Do you have much turnover in drivers? How do you get it to pass spouse approval. I was not warmly received the last time it was suggested.

-- Bobby G.

I feel your pain regarding FedEx. I've never liked them very much - particularly in Hawaii. My business partner's son has a Fedex route on Oregon and I think he's up to 6 trucks now. FedEx Grd is the old RPS System and that's the way they always did it. FedEx is squeezing the guys though. My home drop box works well but some drivers prefer to leave stuff by the front door which is fine as it can't be seen from the street. We're lucky that we don't have much turnover and I know the guys by name. One thing that might work for you is a motion detection camera setup. If the camera could be mounted such that it watches your front door from an angle it would trigger whenever anybody approached it and you could look to see if anybody or a package is there. I get my tech things past my wife by keeping things neat with no dangling or exposed wires and by showing her how it increases security and convenience. She thinks my camera setup is a bit over the top but it's not unsightly so there's no problem. One almost sure way to solve your problem, of course, is to get a private mailbox if there's a convenient place nearby to do that. The advantage is that they are always there to receive and secure your packages and some will even call or email you when something is there. You can make it a "confirmed address" by having a credit card bill sent there for a few months.

From:Robert Green ROBERT snipped-for-privacy@YAH00.COM

Sure stuff comes blind. That's what started this project.

How can you leave a note for them if you don't know the package is coming nor what method it is coming by and if you're out of town? If the four or five major carriers all alerted me when they had incoming packages, that would eliminate the problem, but they don't.

Well, bitch at FedEx someday and you might find that you, the lowly little package RECIPIENT is NOT their client. You have basically no rights of recovery of fees or much else because the SENDER paid them the money to ship. I went up the food chain to a VP at FedEx. They are doing much better now and I suppose they'll continue to do a good job until there's a new driver on my route.

But the bottom line is that I don't just want HA to turn lights on and off. I want a truly *smart* home. Part of that rudimentary intelligence should include the ability to relay to me who is at my front door (or side door or garage) or whether there are any packages sitting in puddles, visible from the street or in a package box, should I choose to go that route. The technology "bricks" are all there. I just have to figure out how to mortar them together into a reliable structure. Considering that this will also be an integral part of a remote security system, I think it's time well-spent.

Lots of folks here have designed annunciator systems with various special requirements. I don't think you were here in CHA when the gentlemen with the image recognition cat door presented his work but it was a fascinating look at how powerful PC's had become. Overkill? Sure. But people DO this sort of stuff because they enjoy the challenge. Some people build ships in bottles. If they enjoy doing it, and they derive some measure of satisfaction from it, then who's to say it's a waste of effort, "surpreme" or otherwise?

-- Bobby G.