router contains a built-in switch versus router without a built-in switch

They do not contain a Firewalll.

They do not contain a MODEM.

They do contain a Switch.

They do contain a NAT routing function and also do RIP1 and RIP2, which makes them routers.

Except that certification and claiming to have some book learning doesn't mean anything to fanatics or people that hire IT types :)

From: "Leythos"

| | They do not contain a Firewalll. | | They do not contain a MODEM. | | They do contain a Switch. | | They do contain a NAT routing function and also do RIP1 and RIP2, which | makes them routers. | | -- | | snipped-for-privacy@rrohio.com | remove 999 in order to email me

Actually...

The MAY contain any or all of these. It all depends on makes and models. For example the Estwll 327W is both a DSL modem in Bridge mode and a DSL Modem/Router when placed in Router mode.

From: "David H. Lipman"

| | Actually... | | The MAY contain any or all of these. It all depends on makes and models. | For example the Estwll 327W is both a DSL modem in Bridge mode and a DSL Modem/Router when | placed in Router mode. | | -- | Dave |

That should have been "Westell 327W" not "Estwll 327W" :-(

Given your credentials, you must know that is sometimes, but not always true. Not all home routers contain what manufacturers call a modem; that is a separate function.

Some also contain PPPoE or similar functionality.

From: "Jonathan Wilson"

| I was unaware that routers exist that do not contain modems (actually, I | probobly knew at one point and just forgot :)

Joint modem+Router devices are relatively new. When SOHO Routers first hit the market, there weren't any joint versions. They were all Routers only or modem only.

Home routers ARE routers. They route between the outside network (the network between the home router and the first router at your ISP) and the internal network (the non-world-visible home network you have). They can contain a firewall and indeed some do. They also implement Network Address Translation (or NAT) and Port Address Translation (or PAT aka port forwarding) and they contain a cable or DSL MODEM (whether it is techincally a MODEM, all the manufacturers call it a MODEM). They will also usually contain a DHCP server to assign IP addresses to all the machines on the internal network.

For example in my case, we have a single IP address from the ISP.

My PC has a private address (in the 192.168.1.x range). Other PCs in this house also have a 192.168.1.x address, as does the router itself. So, all the machines on the internal network including the router make up the 192.168.1.x class C private network. Then, there is another network with my home router on it plus the router at the ISP. The home router routes traffic between the 192.168.1.x network and the router-ISP network.

Oh and btw, I am currently studying Cisco CCNA network certification so I DO know what I am talking about :)

Modem/Router when

That would make it more than a NAT Router then :)

From: "Leythos"

| | That would make it more than a NAT Router then :) | | -- | | snipped-for-privacy@rrohio.com | remove 999 in order to email me

Well Westell is known for making DSL modems. The product lines are morphing and assimilating.

It is the Borgs ! ;-)

Yea, that type of crap really irritates me - I'm the type that purchases a stand-alone access-point, not a wireless router, so that I can change things as needed without impacting everything else.

I would hate to find that my Modem had an exploit that filters through the NAT firmware, that would have been blocked if I had installed a stand-alone NAT router.

I was unaware that routers exist that do not contain modems (actually, I probobly knew at one point and just forgot :)

From: "Leythos"

| | Yea, that type of crap really irritates me - I'm the type that purchases | a stand-alone access-point, not a wireless router, so that I can change | things as needed without impacting everything else. | | I would hate to find that my Modem had an exploit that filters through | the NAT firmware, that would have been blocked if I had installed a | stand-alone NAT router. | | -- | | snipped-for-privacy@rrohio.com | remove 999 in order to email me

I agree. Greater versitility and no single point of failure.

I wonder -- If a modem can be put in either a Bridge mode or a Router mode, are they then BRouters ?

No single point of failure? How so?

are they then

From: "CJT"

| No single point of failure? How so? |

If the Router+modem goes both are dead. If you separate products and the Router dies, you can still connect at least one PC to the modem.

The NAT device/home router, would still have an IP address, so it wouldn't be a switch.

The home router would still respond to an ARP request - for its MAC address, given its IP address. A switch would not do that.

agreed. interesting concept. But as soon as you send a frame to the switch, and the MAC address is the MAC address of the router, rather than the MAC address of another computer on the LAN, then the frame will be pased by the switch to the home router, and the home router will do whatever a home router does. If the IP address is private then i don't know what the home router does. And if the IP address is not private then the frame is sent out , to the ISP's router.

So, it is not just a switch. Frames can be addressed to the home router, the home router has an IP, the home router makes some kind of home router decisions on the IP. You can get past the switch.

I have heard that cisco make some kind of manageable layer 3 switch, like a switch that uses IP addresses, but I doubt home routers are anything like these!

Router dies, you

So then the modem is a single point of failure.

From: "CJT"

| So then the modem is a single point of failure. | | -- | The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to | minimize spam. Our true address is of the form snipped-for-privacy@prodigy.net.

Well there is always a weak link in any chain. It is admittedly a weak argument but the versatility argument isn't.

My father has a Westell 2200 ADSL modem+Router but it is in Bridge Mode and he's using a Linksys BEFSR41 v3 Router.

I have a White Westell (modem only and have had it for over 5.5 years w/o any failures) and use a Linksys BEFSR81 v1 Router.

Most of the managed switches I'm using have an IP address.

Most of the managed switches I'm using are doing that.

And for what I can see, most SOHO routers will do just switching and are managable, if you switch of routing functionality.

Yours, VB.