Theoretical Discussion: Hotel WiFi Hack

Alright, let me start off by saying that I'm not a malicious hacker - like hacker ethic's state, I do this soley for exploration and advancement of knowledge.

Let me also say that this may be a long post, but I hope all of you respond so we can have an exciting discussion!

Now that the legalese and foreward is out of the way, I've got a discussion to start with you wireless experts. I've done my share of hacking before, but I've not done any WiFi hacking, so I thought I'd post this here to sort of get a consensus on a crazy idea I had tonight.

I'm staying at this hotel in NYC over the next 3 days (the Doubletree by Times Square). They don't offer wired internet because it's an old building and they don't want to rewire it all. So they offer wireless internet in the suites for $9.95/day. Bummer, right? So the person I'm staying with in the hotel signs up wirelessly with his laptop and gets on just fine. The system makes him register an account, and he's got his high-speed internet. So I try the account on my computer - no such luck. Perhaps only one laptop at a time is allowed to connect? He logs off and shuts down his wireless, and I try again. Strike two. Alright, so perhaps they're filtering based on something else - what's the most permanent thing most people have associated with their network cards? A MAC address! Looking more closely at the history log of my friend's laptop (we're both computer people and keep logs of these sorts of things), I notice that when he first signed up with the system, it passed his MAC address around via some GET variables in the URL. So I go ahead and change my MAC address to his and re-connect, again making sure he's off. Bingo! Wireless internet. Main problem: solved.

Now here's where I started getting excited. They obviously have wireless coverage in all of the rooms built in, and the gateway filters who's allowed to connect by A) an account with user/pass combo; B) the MAC address; or C) a combination of both. Now, I had typed in the account information with my old MAC address enabled - not with his, which leads me to believe that they're using option B. This really doesn't matter anyway, as you'll see later on. So, wireless in all the rooms. Based on my findings, theoretically, couldn't I just find someone else who's signed up for the internet, get their MAC address, spoof theirs as mine, and get internet, in their name? Wouldn't that then allow me to get free wireless internet? Remember, whatever you tell me can't steal from the hotel - I've already paid to get the internet in our room. So, how to get the MAC addresses? I've got a tool which can recover the MAC address of a remote machine by giving it the IP address - anyone know of a tool which can give me a list of all the live hosts' IP addresses in my subnet? I've got SuperScan, but it's slow & bloated - I'm thinking maybe nmap? Granted, not every wireless MAC address I get will have signed up for the free internet - most laptop users who aren't computer literate will just leave their wireless adapter on and it'll connect to the default network. But a strong percentage (or at least a few) will have done so, and that could then be used a list to rotate among for my MAC address, to continually get free wireless internet.

But wait, Logan, you're all now thinking - two machines with the same MAC address on the same network? Surely the router or gateway would go mad! Or something like that. Well, I anticipated that, too - I had once read an article about WEP hacking and in it was mentioned a way to send a broadcast packet to tell certain clients to disconnect/disassociate/disauthenticate from a certain SSID, again by spoofing the MAC address to appear as if it the packet were coming from the router/gateway. Anyone know of a way to achieve this? If so, then one would be able to construct a tool which rotated one's MAC address among a list and sending out the appropriately spoofed packets to ensure that the MAC address currently in use was not connected to the network. Sure, one user at a time will have some wireless troubles, but that's their problem to deal with.

And now for the granddaddy of them all - I got the MAC address of the main gateway assigned to my laptop when I first connected wirelessly. This device, I'm assuming, allows access only to its manufacturer's special website for some legalese agreements & logins, etc. Now, couldn't I change my MAC address to that of the main gateway, do the same for the IP address, and flood the network with spoofed ARP packets to, in essence, redirect all the traffic normally going to the gateway to my laptop? I could then easily create a fake website which looked like the real gateway, grab their user details, and send them along to the real gateway. Don't know how much or what I could harvest with an attack like that, but any comments would be appreciated to further discuss! Another note: I believe an attack like this was described in one of the "Stealing the Network" books (I'm not at home right now otherwise I'd look it up since I've got the whole series): where a student did something similar to grab the personal details of all the registering students at a college who were creating accounts at the school's "personal" website (you know, sites like my.mit.edu). He used a tool, I think, called webmitmd to man-in-the-middle the secure server on campus.

That's all I've been brooding about over the past hour or so. I was thinking more and more about it but really wanted a bunch of knowledgeable experts I could share my thoughts with to further discuss the feasability, both technically and otherwise, of the possibility of things like these actually happening. Because I'm sure with your stimulating responses, I can learn much more than I could have trying to research all of this!

That's it! Looking forward to some discussions!

Reply to
logankriete
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On 9 Aug 2006 20:00:48 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in :

Why am I skeptical. No thanks.

Reply to
John Navas

Well, you are in the same room. Perhaps a crossover cable between PCs and enable sharing. Or haul a wireless router that you both share.

Another idea is to stick an antenna at your window and find some free wifi.

Reply to
miso

@ John -

You really believe I have a malicious intent here? Look around the internet, Google my name, you'll see that I'm just a tech guy like you trying to learn. I've even offered lots of advice and help to others who request it. If I really wanted to hack them and cause damage, I would have done so via the wired terminals they provide in the Business Center. When you were first learning about your profession, would you have appreciated someone who brushed you off like you were a criminal? I'm extremely offended at your response and just hope that no one else you offer "advice" to encounters this same type of treatment.

@miso -

Thanks for the idea; we had actually done that to begin with before changing my MAC address. We used a crossover to connect his computer to mine and enabled ICS on his Windows laptop. The antenna idea is a really interesting option for me to keep in mind for the future; I don't have one with me but I'll experiment when I get back from my trip. Thanks for giving me a helpful reply!

If any> snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Reply to
logankriete

I was following right along with you until that one.

It's annoying that hotels charge $9.95 for an internet connection. I've seen this identical complaint about $9.95 per MAC before. Last time, I think it was from someone who had two different PCs with built in WiFi, and he couldn't use them both, not even one at a time. Or maybe it was a PC and a PDA... something like that.

In Denver, the Hilton offers free WiFi, but charges for breakfast. The Embassy charges for WiFi, but has free breakfast.

One could always shop for the accommodations that worked for them.

In Sunnyvale, the Maple Tree Inn has free internet, free breakfast, but you have to get a signon token from the front desk. Winner.

Spoofing yourself as a "secured" WAP, intentionally to capture other persons' $9.95 login credentials, sounds like an obvious case of grand theft.

Reply to
dold

Thanks for your reply, Clarence. The hotel I just stayed at before flying into NYC was the Nine Zero in Boston - free wired and wireless internet, you just have to get a password from the front desk. The best I've seen so far is Novotel in NYC, on Broadway - free, public WiFi - no questions asked.

Now let me just restate this again, since both you and John so far have not seemed to understand this: I have absolutely no malicious intent at all. I don't want to steal others' logins, money, data, etc. I don't want to cause the hotel undue harm or stress. I don't want to do anything at all with a purposefully malicious intent. In the interest of learning, I had just hoped I could discuss theoretical situations and attack vectors with other experts and have an intelligent discussion with others. I'M NOT PLANNING ON ATTACKING THIS, OR ANY HOTEL, THAT I STAY AT, NOW OR IN THE FUTURE OF MY LIFE.

Please try and understand this, pe> snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Reply to
logankriete

What I find the most interesting in the $10/day. Bummer, indeed!

I sure hope that doesn't become a trend... I'm with you, at $10/day, I'd probably, uhm, "aquire" access as well. After 6PM, its not like they would know, anyway. The only people there after 6PM are the front desk people, a general utility guy, a security guy -- and none of them have a clue.

If anything, just split it between a room-mate. (The crossover cable idea by miso is good.)

Staying at hotels often, I have a relatively small AP that can run in repeater mode that I keep in my laptop bag. Hotels I stay at usually have free wireless, although often they just have one AP per floor and the signal can be intermittent. Often I set it up as a repeater, not just for myself but anyone else that wants to use it. I don't care if anyone else does. I was repeating once at a Holiday Inn and had, at one point, five other folks using my AP. I also even use the AP often if there isn't an internet pipe. I just set it up as a standalone AP, so myself and coworkers can get an expedient LAN up and going for multiplayer games. Stayed at one hotel for such a long period that I had a key to the utility room on my floor, so I could go in and power cycle their cheap Linksys AP whenever it locked up...

Reply to
Eric

On 10 Aug 2006 15:46:34 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in :

Why/how should we take that at face value?

Reply to
John Navas

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" wrote in :

Do you also shoplift, or just steal Internet access?

Reply to
John Navas

Do you also act like an asshole, or just be a dick?

I've tried to talk to you peacefully, but honestly, you're making out everyone single one of us to be hardened criminals who have no respect for the law. Get a clue and wake up - we're not criminals. You can pretend to be as much "holier-than-thou" as you want, but in the end, you're just incompetent.

@Eric - that's a great idea to br> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:23:39 GMT, "Eric" wrote in

Reply to
logankriete

In the boonies, they often charge for wifi. It's not like you can go elsewhere.

Believe it or not, some Motel 6's have ethernet ports in the room.

I never thought about setting up a repeater, but that is a good idea. Often each room has a sweet spot, and it isn't where you want to sit.

Reply to
miso

Somehow the words "grow up" come to mind here.

Reply to
Bill Kearney

Comfort Inns/Suites (at least the ones I've used) are wireless in the lobby and wired in the rooms. At least some of the Drury Inns, also.

Reply to
Me

Reply to
logankriete

On 10 Aug 2006 20:31:27 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in :

I'm actually an honest person that doesn't have much patience for dishonesty, and that isn't gullible enough to fall for suspicious anonymous posting at face value. I'm also grown enough not to stoop to language like that, which only serves to make me even more suspicions. And my response was to Eric's patent dishonesty, not you. Get a grip.

I'm actually just telling you that you haven't convinced me of honorable intentions, particularly given how suspicious your post appears. That burden is on you, not me.

Clueless would actually be taking that at face value, particularly since you lump yourself in with Eric, who thinks it's OK to steal Internet service just because he thinks the price is too high and can get away with it.

Insults only serve to weaken your case.

That's case closed as far as I'm concerned. My suspicions were valid, and I don't help dishonest people.

Reply to
John Navas

On 10 Aug 2006 20:41:38 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@sushi.com wrote in :

Get your own cellular data. Or go without.

Reply to
John Navas

From his original post:

"Sure, one user at a time will have some wireless troubles, but that's their problem to deal with."

He wants to steal the service that another guest paid for. I get it.

He isn't an evil person. He's just a prick.

Reply to
Dave Rudisill

You may complain about the pricing and policies of the hotel, but that doesn't change what should be your respect for others.

You have no right to intercept anyone's traffic. You have no right to knock any paying customer off their network, even for a moment. You have no right to spoof being any device on that network, client or AP. You have no right to steal what someone else has paid for.

If you and your roommate want to "share" his paid access, that is a gray area that you might justify to yourself, but you proposed going beyond that.

No evil intent, of course.

Reply to
dold

On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:41:52 -0700, Dave Rudisill wrote: : > snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: : : >Now let me just restate this again, since both you and John so far have : >not seemed to understand this: I have absolutely no malicious intent at : >all. I don't want to steal others' logins, money, data, etc. I don't : >want to cause the hotel undue harm or stress. I don't want to do : >anything at all with a purposefully malicious intent. : : From his original post: : : "Sure, one user at a time will have some wireless troubles, but : that's their problem to deal with." : : He wants to steal the service that another guest paid for. I get it. : : He isn't an evil person. He's just a prick.

And a troll. If we stop talking to him, maybe he'll mosey on over to a genealogy group, or somewhere.

If you're going to tell him anything, give him bogus information that might get him caught.

Reply to
Robert Coe

What planet are you from? I've yet to stay at a hotel where Internet access was less than $10 a day.

Reply to
Robert Coe

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