you may want to think about a plan b... Where my hs internet comes in i have one wrt and the router part plugged to a powerline bridge, wherever I want either wired or wireless, i plug in the second part of the powerline bridge and a 2nd wrt (gives me both wired and wireless wherever I plug in)
as to speed, what ya got, and what you gonna be doing? speed is limited to the source, use internet via dsl/cable you probably max at 10-12, if however you will be transferring big stuff from one device to another, you may want higher speed... does your tivo use wired or wireless? (if wireless, it only does about 54 max, wired 100), do you xfer large files often, and need high speed all the time, or do you xfer large files infrequently, and you can live with lower speed?... how bout the puters you will be using? (wired or wireless, and what do they support? 10/100/1000 or B/G/N)....
maybe even a plan c... Remember, no matter where you have a plug, or a cat
5/6 connection, your SO will probably want to rearrange the furniture and put it somewhere else! (I cheated and in the closets in each room (of our ranch house)/from the attic, ran power/cat5/phone/coax/etc so it's basically hardwired/easy to do from the attic/ but out of sight)
When I returned my Netgear adapters I considered getting a couple of "Piggy's" from Solwise
However I put it on hold due to a variety of info on their Forum. They use the Intellon chip in the unit and towards the end of 2007 a f/ware upgrade was issued to comply with "new" CE reg's and the comments were:-
1."Well it turns out that, in order to meet new CE regulations, the newer f/w version has got a different emc calibration file. By that I mean they have some slightly different frequency notching and also changes to the frequency power densities in order to comply with these regulations. The effects are that it's possible to get a small amount of radio interference on the old f/w but with more power and speed. The newer f/w is less likely to cause interference but has reduced power and slightly lower speed."
2."Our in house tests show the AV units with ver 2 or later f/w to be up to 20% slower. TBH it depends upon the quality of the mains. With good mains the difference is quite small."
3."Okay... I've spoken to Intellon and they say there are no tools available to end users to do a f/w downgrade. However, we (Solwise), have managed to get hold of the engineers only tool so that we CAN do this downgrade for you. Sorry but this software is NOT for general release - Intellon will NOT be happy at all if we let this software out of the door." They were from
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 12:30:25 -0800, John Navas wrote in :
If you want a bargain and don't mind older spec, TigerDirect.com has the Actiontec MegaPlug 85Mbps Powerline Ethernet Adapter Kit (two units) for only $70.
I'm certainly impressed by the good reviews this device gets:
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What's the catch? I'd feel a lot less buyer's remorse if you could tell me that my $125 Linksys devices offer me something that these don't. Maybe the potential for extra throughput in the future...?
You might want to read the 65 assorted reviews on Newegg.com:
Most users are generally satisfied. There are a few gotchas. One I find amusing is that you have to type in the serial number when running the install software. However, since it's on the back of the unit, you can't read it when it's plugged in. Scribble down the serial numbers before installing.
Well, if the cordless phone is on 2.4GHz, you might end up with some mutual interference with the wireless routers.
Nope. My guess is you'll be asking how to add a 3rd power line networking adapter.
On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:15:30 -0800, dgates wrote in :
Digital, depending on implementation, would probably give you substantially clearer sound with substantially less interference. The best digital cordless phones use spread spectrum technology.
Now that I have purchased and received the Linksys PLE200 Powerline AV Ethernet Adaptors, I see that configuring them is probably not going to be the challenging part.
The challenging part will be figuring out to do with the WRT300N in order to "turn it into an access point."
Please forgive me if my questions are a little fuzzy; they're a match for my current thinking. I'll tell you my current understanding of what I need to do, and then the questions that I have based on that understanding.
================================================== MY CURRENT UNDERSTANDING:
based in large part on a couple of URLs:
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?board.id=Wireless_Routers&message.id=8768
Distilled (so far):
Hook up the [input source] to the 300N using the LAN port(s) [on the
300N]. Do not use the internet port on the 300N.
Login to WRT300N (you may need to disconnect you modem/router for some time).
Set up the Wireless Settings as you prefer.
Configure the device in AP ("Access Point?") mode, you'll need the wireless SSID, channel and security settings same as your wireless router.
Change the local IP address of the router to the range of your router, (specifically, set it to a static IP of 192.168.1.2) Disable the DHCP server on the WRT300N. (and disable NAT on the WRT300N, I'm pretty sure)
Put the two wireless routers on different non-overlapping channels (1,
6, 11) so that they don't interfere with each other.
(Wide vs. Standard? If you use "wide", it's fixed to channel 6 as it now hogs the entire band. The only way you can set the channel is to use standard (narrow) bandwidth.)
Your WRT300N will work as Access point.
================================================== MY QUESTIONS:
I just read through the WRT300N manual, and nowhere does it say "Follow the instructions in this section if you plan to use the WRT300N as an access point, rather than a router."
Do I need to do some global switcheroo, to tell the device "You are now an 'access point.' You are no longer a router. Some things that you think you need to do, you will no longer be doing." ?
It just seems odd to me that both the router and the access point ("AP") might be trying to assign IP addresses -- especially in different ranges. After all, I'm sure that a couple of the Tivos will be able to communicate with both the router and the AP; do I really want both devices trying to assign IP addresses?
(By "router," I mean the WRT150N, and by "AP," I mean the WRT300N, now being used as an access point.)
Does the AP assign IP addresses? Should I give the first router permission to assign 101 through 120, and give the AP permission to assign 121 through 140?
I'm setting the AP to a hard-coded 192.168.1.2 ? What do I set Subnet Mask to? 255.255.255.0 ?
Do I retype our ISP's settings (Default Gateway, DNS, etc.) into the AP to make them match what we have entered into the main router?
Of all the existing settings in the Linksys configuration screens, how many do I have to go into and think about? Should I basically go through every tab of settings on the AP and set them to match the router? (e.g., if uPNP is off on the router, then it's off on the AP, etc.?)
Since I have N devices, don't I want to keep "Wide?" Isn't that more throughput? Or am I better off changing to "Standard?"
Are there any special steps to take to make sure that our devices (a laptop and two iPhones that I forgot to mention) can roam, presumably meaning that they'll get their signal from whichever router or AP is closer?
Basically, I'm just not clear on how to think about two devices -- one router and one access point. Are they nearly identical, with nearly identical settings? Or is the access point "dumb," with far fewer settings, and all of the "heavy lifting" is handled by the main router?
If someone (and I guess by this point, I'm thinking it'll probably be a someone named Jeff or John) wants to help unfuzzy my thinking, it would be much appreciated.
Thanks for the quick reply. A couple questions on the FAQ...
The FAQ says: "Set IP address (manually)."
By "manually," I assume you still mean using the I.E. and the Linksys config tools. Can I set the IP address once it's already separated by the main PC by a router and the Powerline network, or do I need to temporarily connect it directly to the main computer?
OR... I could do it right now, before I disconnect the WRT300N from the laptop it currently talks to. Set the IP address and THEN connect it to the Powerline adapter... ?
By the way, I assume it's "IP Address," not "Internet IP Address" that I'm setting to 192.168.1.2? (and that I'm changing Internet IP Address to 0.0.0.0 or something null like that?)
The FAQ says: "Connect (Ethernet) cable to LAN port, not WAN/Internet port."
By "LAN port(s)," you mean the 4 ports that I think of as output ports? as opposed to the one port labeled "Internet" that I think of as the only input port?
The FAQ says: "May need to use crossover type cable."
Should I assume that with the Powerline networking in place, I won't need to use a crossover type cable? (Two cables came with the two powerline devices; I don't think either is crossover.)
The FAQ says: "Disable any wireless-to-wired isolation feature."
I don't really know what this means at all.
Other little notes:
Ah, so that's what I'm doing when I turn off DHCP. Okay.
Won't there still be form fields on the config screens to enter all these values? (In fact, they'll probably be populated full of the old, out-of-date values.)
If I'm *not* entering any values, then do I make sure the form fields are blank, or set to 0.0.0.0?
On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:56:33 -0800, dgates wrote in :
Correct,
Temporarily connect it to any computer, or
Correct.
The access point must have a non-conflicting address on the same subnet, one that isn't being handed out by the DHCP server, so if router DHCP is handing out (say) 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254, then the access point could be 192.168.2.1, with the subnet mask 255.255.0.0 configured in the router.
No need to mess with the Internet address.
Correct.
Probably not.
Look in the menus of the WRT300N for any isolation features, and turn OFF any that you find.
Correct.
Just ignore them -- they don't matter.
Before you start on the WRT300N, wire a computer to the remote powerline adapter and test it thoroughly to be sure powerline networking is working well.
Then wire the computer to the WRT300N (LAN port) to the powerline adapter to be sure that is working well.
Then test the wireless on the WRT300N with all security (router and access point) turned OFF.
Then turn security ON. Use the same strong WPA PSK key on the router and the access point. No other security matters.
Test everything.
Roaming between router and access point may not work seamlessly with a computer still powered up -- you may have to power down and back up, or just disable and re-enable Wi-Fi, to change associations.
from DSL modem to router to powerline network adapters (connected via powerline) to access point (AP).
From there, I'm getting a little iffy -- about whether the access point is transmitting wirelessly, about whether the iPhones are able to roam, and what to do about our 6-year-old laptop not supporting WPA or WPA2.
I'll post a couple comments below, then ask a couple more questions.
I had no choice but to put something in. The Linksys software demands
5 fields of information (under "Setup > Basic Setup," with the dropdown set to Static IP). I'll list them here and tell you what I put in each one.
Right under the "Static IP" dropdown:
Internet IP Address: 192.168.1.2 Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0 Default Gateway: 192.168.1.1 (my best guess)
Under "Network Setup > Router IP":
IP Address: 192.168.1.2 (should this have been "192.168.1.1?") Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
I think I might have screwed up with putting a 2 instead of a 1 in that second "IP Address" field.
Okay. The only place I saw the word "isolation" is under "Wireless >
Advanced Wireless Settings > AP Isolation." That is disabled on both the router and the access point.
Okay. They have been ignored (left at their default settings, which is 0.0.0.0).
Hmm... More on roaming in a minute.
I did this. Streaming YouTube over the powerline connection was no problem.
I can now connect to both routers from the one main computer in the office. I've got their configuration screens open right now. ".1.1" in IE and ".1.2" in Firefox, just to keep my own head straight.
Hmm. Actually, I went straight to secure mode.
Hmm... More on WPA, WPA2, PSK, PSK2, etc. in a minute.
Notes (starting with the biggest issue, then working down):
I discovered that our 6-year-old laptop doesn't seem to support WPA or WPA2. However, a networking friend once gave us a WPC300N wireless-n notebook adapter which I'll research. If it seems that it will offer us any kind of WPA, then I'll install it.
If not, then I think the laptop will have to settle for simply plugging into ethernet cables (attached to powerline adapters) in each of the two main rooms it likes to visit.
=====
In an attempt to solve some early problem I was having, I reset the WRT300N to factory defaults, then began entering fresh settings from there.
=====
After saving certain changes on the new 192.168.1.2 (usually changes on the Wireless tab), I can no longer connect to it until I go manually reboot it (by unplugging it). (Could this in some way be related to setting one of the IP addresses incorrectly on the Basic Setup tab?)
=====
My WRT150N has these (wireless) Security Mode options: WEP WPA Personal WPA2 Personal WPA Enterprise WPA2 Enterprise (and a couple others)
The WRT300N has those same options, except that it lists "PSK" in place of "WPA" for those 4 options.
I'm thinking that PSK2 and WPA2 in some way synonymous or compatible... ? But I don't know why the two Linksys routers would report them differently.
=====
I don't know a perfect way to test that the access point is actually providing any wireless signal. Walking around the house with our iPhones, trying to read their signals, is a little flaky. It seems like the ideal way to test would be to somehow turn off the wireless signal on the main router (without just unplugging it from the wall). But I don't know how to do that.
Instead, I just walked out the front door, across the street and down one house, to the limit of where our WiFi network will reach, then asked my girlfriend to unplug the access point. When she did, I lost my connection to WiFi, so I'll take that to mean that the wireless signal is working.
I'll do some more tests in a bit, such as checking the signal strength of the Tivos to see if they've improved since last reporting in at "Good" and "Marginal."
=====
For now, it seems like the number one question involves what to do about the WEP-only laptop, and will the Wireless-N Notebook Adapter get us some WPA-level security?
I'm open to any input (especially if I've made any obvious errors), but otherwise I think I'm well on my way to getting this handled.
On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 15:03:31 -0800, dgates wrote in :
Easily tested with the SSID -- change it to "my access point" on the access point, and see if that's visible (along with the SSID of the router) in your wireless clients. Go back to the same SSID when you have it all working, or stick with different SSIDs for manual roaming.
Seamless roaming is problematic -- many clients try to stubbornly hang on to a uselessly weak signal even though a much stronger signal is available.
Seriously consider getting a PCMCIA or USB Wi-Fi adapter that supports WPA PSK (Personal).
Put anything in -- doesn't matter.
Follow my instructions.
Great.
That's not what I said. Make sure a computer wired to the WRT300N (LAN port) can access the Internet.
Bad idea. Follow my instructions to the letter.
Did wireless work or not on both the router and the access point?
Good.
OK.
I really don't know. You didn't follow my instructions, and I can't follow what you posted.
Don't mess with security until it's completely working.
what series tivos? series 1 and 2/3 until the fall update s2's only did wep, now 2 for sure does wep/wpa, i hear 3 does too, haven't heard about
1's yet) (i have 3 S2's, 2 with wireless only b/g supported, and one with a usb/ethernet converter).. I use the wireless for the devices that support wpa, 2 s2 tivos, 3 laptops, tablet, pda, and the wired as an ethernet bridge from the linksys wrt to one tivo in the sunroom that won't get wireless (one part of the powerline bridge plugs into the router part of the 300 and an ac outlet, other upstairs in an ac socket and to the ethernet/usb port of the
3rd tivo, not wireless so it doesn't need wpa or wep)
among other things to keep in mind, want wep or wpa, are you lucky enuf not to need wireless for all your devices?
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at any rate, is there some reason you want to complicate things? do you know if you need wep or wpa? why do you want to figger out how to hobble/kill one of your devices? Do you need/want seamless roaming on the same ssid? rather than roaming on two ssid's? Forget n, tivos are b/g only (not sure about iphone), and your unamed laptop(s) may/may not do n either.....you say you have 'N' devices, there are no N standards yet, and shile some are actually pre-n and will play nice with other pre n's.. some won't.... i'd suggest you consider what exactly you do have first and set it up to work with what you have, rather than what you'd like/heard about.....
Okay, it's all done! We now have all of our devices connected, in some way or another to a single DSL line, and they're all receiving a nice, strong signal.
I doubt that anyone is waiting with baited breath to hear about it, but I figured I should post one final time to give feedback and thanks.
A few times in this thread, we bumped into a problem that happens when an expert tries to explain things to an amateur: their level of understanding is so different that it's hard for each of them to picture what the other one knows.
The amateur can't see which detail is important and which isn't, so he'll fixate on something that the expert knows he can ignore. And the expert has such a deeply ingrained knowledge, that he literally can't picture which parts the amateur doesn't know.
In this case, I got all the way through the process without realizing that it was even possible to change the SSID on the access point to something other than the same one on the router.
However, I found other ways to test that the access point was sending a signal. For example, the Linksys adapter software I had to install on the laptop gives a clear display, showing the router's SSID at channel 1 as a different entry than the access point's channel 6 entry, each with different signal strengths.
I'm still not sure how the access point will know which router it is supposed to talk to if I give them different SSIDs. Through the passphrase maybe? Or maybe my understanding of how they work together is still too incomplete. In any case, everything is working with them using the same SSID.
This is definitely an "expert vs. amateur" issue. I started this thread, simply looking to boost the signal from one router. Then suddenly found that I was learning about how to configure wireless access points across powerline networks, and issues like manual vs. seamless roaming.
I had previously never used the work "roaming" except when thinking about how much it costs to make a call from my cell phone while I'm in another state.
Again, fortunately, everything is working with both devices using the same SSID.
Done. Thanks.
Another "expert vs. amateur" issue. I found myself looking at a screen that looks something like this:
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The screen demanded that I enter some value into every field, and I couldn't tell which fields were important and which weren't. They were already populated with numbers (from the access point's previous life as a router) and I, the amateur, couldn't see how to *not* fill them out with numbers.
On the other hand, you, the expert, know that... well, I'm not sure what you know. Hence the "expert vs. amateur" situation. But I
*think* that what you know that the device will ignore the numbers entered into certain of those fields.
[I'll delete a couple of paragraphs here.]
This was definitely an "expert vs. amateur" moment, where, to the expert, it's clear what the amateur should do when reading an instruction that says "test the wireless on the WRT300N with all security (router and access point) turned off."
The amateur doesn't know what it would mean to turn the security off. (maybe simply deleting the passphrase in each setup screen? but somewhere here, my mental model of how the router and the access point know that they're supposed to be on the same network is falling apart.)
In any case, the amateur has already taken a couple days of the expert's time, and suddenly finds that he's got two choices: Leave it all working as it is now, or start asking a whole new round of questions.
Wireless works on both devices. Thanks.
I can believe that you can't follow what I posted. "Expert vs. amateur" again.
In any case, things are working well now. I was a little shaky on what exactly I was doing at certain steps, but it's all okay now.
Everything is working. The Tivos are getting much improved signals, we have two iPhones that can receive wi-fi from more rooms than before, and even a couple printers that are now on the single network, accessible from both computers.
By the way, I've been on both sides of the "expert vs. amateur" spectrum. When I'm helping my mom or dad do something on their computer, and I have to trust their descriptions over the phone of what they're seeing, it can be difficult.
So I thank you again for your time. And as a little extra thanks... Have you seen this video?
The Website Is Down: Sales Guy vs. Web Dude:
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When I first started watching it, my jaw dropped at its 10-minute running time, but after about 60 seconds, I realized that it was worth the running time.
I guess I'll leave that video as my final thought on the "expert vs. amateur" topic, and my final thanks as well.
I'm pretty sure I'm done with all this. (Please check out the long reply I just posted.) However, you put some time into typing a few thoughts, so I'll respond to them.
Two series 3's (well, HD Tivos anyway) and one series 2.
They all do WPA.
I'm not sure what you're asking, but each of the three TiVos has its own Tivo-branded wireless G adapter that gets it on our home network.
I believe that I want WPA for any device that has to get on our network wirelessly.
I'm not sure which device you were referring to here. I'm hesitant to take a guess and then type an answer based on that guess. (Do you mean connecting the Tivos to the network wirelessly?)
Now that you mention it, the Tivos certainly aren't going to do much roaming. Nor are the printers. But I think the iPhones enjoy getting a good connection in each room.
For the moment, we have three "N devices," each from Linksys. They seem to play nice with each other.
Thanks again for the input. If you want to elaborate on which device you think I'm hobbling, I'd be interested in reading your thoughts, although I suspect that I'm done finessing this for now.
For now, I think it's time for us to learn how our new Panasonic phones work.
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