Apple changed their documentation at my request but it proves they don't care about privacy
Sep 03, 2026 Last reply: 2 weeks ago 113 Replies
M
Maria Sophia
Hi Keith,
Python group dropped in the f'up, where there are only two people on that group who matter, so I hope they don't lose out because it's being dropped.
Also dropped are the iOS group, as only the trolls (Chris, Wolfan) responded, so it is a waste to ever include Apple people on any thread.
Also dropped is Android as, at least Android devices won't even *see* the BSSID when hidden (let alone collect it, save it, upload it, for it to later be scrubbed because SSID contains, also, the _nomap directive).
So it's really an Apple-only problem anyway, although, everyone owns a router (so to speak) whether or not they own Android or iOS devices.
The problem isn't caused by Android devices anyway. The problem is caused by iOS devices alone.
The only reason for the Windows newsgroup is most of the code is batch code, where the python code does the heavy lifting of delving deeply into the Apple WPS database, so they work together, Windows and Python.
Although the Python code could just as easily have been run on Linux. Or macOS.
Anyway, I'll take your concerns to heart, where I think the fact that at least one person reproduced EXACTLY the claims I made, should be enough for all to realize everything I've said is not only true, but easily reproduced.
This is because I'm extremely well educated in the sciences and engineering so I don't say things which aren't reproducable by others following me.
Nobody, in my decades on Usnent, has ever found a fact I've claimed to be a fact, ever to be wrong, and if, perchance, I make a typo or a forgetful faux pas, everyone knows I admit to it immediately, as what matters is only the facts that remain in the Usenet record for generations to read later.
At this point, only the alt.internet.wireless newsgroup remains on the followup. But that's a dead newsgroup, so, while extremely relevant, it won't go anywhere and this thread will remain the reference that it is.
As a final summary of the situation, as I see it, based on responses, people can't understand what the issue is if they don't understand the breadcrumb trail from your router access point to my Win10 python runs.
They just can't. Their stone-age knowledge of networking doesn't prepare them for it.
Jon ran the python code. I ran it.
Nobody else did (to our knowledge). So nobody understands what that Python code does.
We both confirmed that it works exactly the way I said it works. Which, I only know, because I ran the Python code you claim isn't there.
I ran that code the instant I read this paper, in fact. *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
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Knowing that Google doesn't even *see* my hidden-broadcast BSSID, I was horrified to see a dozen of my BSSID/GPS pairs in the Apple WPS database.
That revelation, which started with the Python code, is what started this. If someone hasn't read the paper, they can't possibly understand the issue.
And, if they haven't set their BSSID to hidden, and run the Python code, again, they can't possibly understand the issue because all their knowledge is forever stuck in the stone age of wireless metadata, which, while true, doesn't prepare them for the shock of what that Python code revealed to us.
Their stone-age knowledge of wireless networking doesn't prepare them.
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By JONATHAN D. GLATERThe New York TimesJanuary 25, 2006IT may be easy to forget...
M
Maria Sophia
Removing all but alt.internet.wireless from the f'up since the Apple trolls (Chris, in this instance) are bullshitting us like there's no tomorrow.
The BSSID:GPS breadcrumb trail is very DIFFERENMT between iOS & Android devices & it's very DIFFRERENT between Python & the Apple/Google databases.
First off, we discussed this in December, in gory detail, and we covered EXACTLY what the Apple documentation said, and we discussed EXACTLY that I went to a my next-door neighbor, who is an executive at Apple to get it corrected, and we discussed, THEN, that it wasn't documented, for God's sake.
Moreso, as we know now, it's corrected.
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So the bullshit that Chris (a known Apple religious zealot troll) spewed is classic Apple troll bullshit spewed for no other reason than to defend his Apple God to the death, no matter what, using the first absurdly preposterous argument he can come up with.
Hell, even if everything I said wasn't true (& in the record) the very fact that Apple documentation says it TODAY proves the veracity of my point.
The Apple religious zealots will stop at nothing to protect Apple's honor.
Yet, what matters for the people on this newsgroup who are not Apple religious zealots who defend Apple to the death no matter what, using the first preposterous excuse they can think off... the facts remain facts.
Likely only one out of ten million people know what I'm saying below... (which is why having a stone-age knowledge of networking, doesn't help)
Only Apple iOS devices, by default, upload a hidden-broadcast BSSID. Specifically, Apple devices see them, they save them, they collect them into a packet, they upload them, & Apple never scrubs them, by default.
Google Android devices, by default, don't even see them (AFAIK). Certainly Google devices don't upload them to the Google WPS database.
Both Apple and Google devices, by default, will upload a non-hidden broadcast BSSID/GPS pair, but both will scrub those with _nomap.
Far worse, and the topic of the paper, Google will NOT allow just anyone to read their WPS database, and Google has restrictions on number of outputs and quality of request, and in number of requests per day, etc.
Apple has NONE of those controls! None. Zip. Nada. (That's the main point of the paper for God's sake!).
Worse, Apple will give me (and they have) every single BSSID:GPS pair in the world - that's BILLIONS (which the researchers themselves gathered using the Python code that Jon & I both used to test it for ourselves).
I only collected tens of thousands, but anyone with almost no technical skills whatsoever, can clearly track every single BSSID:GPS pair in the world, from anywhere in the world, using the Python code Jon and I ran.
Those of you who only own the stone-age networking knowledge we all learned decades ago won't be prepared to understand what I just explained to you.
Only Apple does this. Nobody else (to my knowledge).
The BSSID:GPS breadcrumb trail is very DIFFERENMT between iOS & Android devices & it's very DIFFRERENT between Python & the Apple/Google databases.
People can't understand what the issue is if they don't understand the
breadcrumb trail from your router access point to my Win10 python runs.
M
Maria Sophia
Carlos, to his credit, is correct.
Chris is a known Apple religious zealot who is reaching at straws to defend his Apple God to the death, using the first absurd denial he can come up with.
Chris claimed there's no proof that we proved already long ago what Apple documentation said, which is bullshit but even so, we know what it says now.
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The Apple religious zealots can spew all the nutcase bullshit they want to spew, but none of their defenses of Apple's honor changes that documentation.
Only I got that documentation changed. Not them.
And that's because Apple *knew* I was right. They're not stupid.
They're a lot of bad things, but stupid is never one of them. They knew I had threatened legal consequences if they didn't change it.
Or fix it. But they decided NOT to fix it.
We covered the EXACT documentation, long ago, where both Mozilla and Google clearly stated they won't even COLLECT the BSSID if it's hidden broadcast.
I provided it already, elsewhere in this thread, so that's a given. It's well known that a hidden-broadcast is an indicator of desired privacy.
The difference is: a. Apple ignores that privacy indicator b. Google/Mozilla respect it
Likely only one out of ten million people know what I'm saying below... (which is why having a stone-age knowledge of networking, doesn't help)
Only Apple iOS devices, by default, upload a hidden-broadcast BSSID. Specifically, Apple devices see them, they save them, they collect them into a packet, they upload them, & Apple never scrubs them, by default.
Google Android devices, by default, don't even see them (AFAIK). Certainly Google devices don't upload them to the Google WPS database.
Both Apple and Google devices, by default, will upload a non-hidden broadcast BSSID/GPS pair, but both will scrub those with _nomap.
Far worse, and the topic of the paper, Google will NOT allow just anyone to read their WPS database, and Google has restrictions on number of outputs and quality of request, and in number of requests per day, etc.
Apple has NONE of those controls! None. Zip. Nada. (That's the main point of the paper for God's sake!).
Worse, Apple will give me (and they have) every single BSSID:GPS pair in the world - that's BILLIONS (which the researchers themselves gathered using the Python code that Jon & I both used to test it for ourselves).
I only collected tens of thousands, but anyone with almost no technical skills whatsoever, can clearly track every single BSSID:GPS pair in the world, from anywhere in the world, using the Python code Jon and I ran.
Those of you who only own the stone-age networking knowledge we all learned decades ago won't be prepared to understand what I just explained to you.
Only Apple does this. Nobody else (to my knowledge).
The BSSID:GPS breadcrumb trail is very DIFFERENMT between iOS & Android devices & it's very DIFFRERENT between Python & the Apple/Google databases.
People can't understand what the issue is if they don't understand the
breadcrumb trail from your router access point to my Win10 python runs.
M
Maria Sophia
Hi Carlos,
I disagree.
The answer to *this* question, will tell you why what you said is wrong:
Q: Will Google's WPS database contain a BSSID:GPS pair for an access point whose SSID broadcast is set to hidden (i.e., empty or null)? A: Please answer "yes", or "no".
I know the answer to that question. You clearly do not.
Once you know the answer to that question, you'll see why what you said, is dead wrong.
I could ask the same question of the Mozilla MLS, but it's now defunct, but they document this (and we published that documentation elsewhere).
Only Apple ignores the clear privacy intent of setting a hidden SSID. Nobody else.
Just Apple. (to our knowledge)
M
Maria Sophia
First, let's address Andy's point because Andy didn't read the paper, so Andy thinks it's about individuals, and not about the masses.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
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Let's simply apply Flock license-plate readers to that paper by way of an analogy, but we have to modify the protections, which, let's be clear, is the entire point of that paper. A. Flock has protection B. Google has protection C. Apple has no protection
With that in mind, let's answer Andy's question using a Flock database.
Does a FLOCK camera need to know who the driver of the vehicle is? Yes? or No?
What matters is the vehicle is in that spot, at that time, right? Worse, what matters is ANYONE in the world can run the python script. So anyone in the world knows all vehicle's locations at that time, right?
Oh, it gets worse. Not only do they know all vehicle's location, but they get the nearest 400 vehicles every time they query just one vehicle. Google doesn't do that.
Only Apple does that. But wait, it gets worse.
I wrote the Python code that gets the farthest away BSSID, and then gets the next 400 nearest vehicles. And the next. And the next, And the next.
Just like the researchers said, I could collect the location of every single vehicle in the world, which is why it's *mass* surveillance.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
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Andy... it's not "individual" surveillance in that title. It's "mass" surveillance.
Big difference. Now back to Rudy's offer of providing the message ID.
snipped-for-privacy@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com All my tutorials use freeware so that EVERYONE can use them, but I wrote this tutorial before I found out about this Apple WPS query:
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Hence, this tutorial is only useful if you want to control the query of Apple's highly insecure WPS database, which has no privacy controls.
For example, you can query thousands of BSSID's in a single command. I'm not promoting that action, but I'm making the point it can be done.
See also: From: Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.internet.wireless Subject: How to test if your access point BSSID is in the highly insecure Apple WPS database Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 05:08:08 -0700 Message-ID: <10guhv8$ig7$ snipped-for-privacy@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Tutorial: *Query the Apple database for your access point BSSID*
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Download & install 7zip if you don't already have it on Windows.
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Download & install Python 3.14.1 on Windows & create site-packages
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Name: python-3.14.1-amd64.exe Size: 29883656 bytes (28 MiB) SHA256: 74E1516408744190FCC12307C150DE30902898444F77F85F4C2AC18F36788A80 I installed into C:\app\os\python\python.exe REM Create site-packages if missing mkdir C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages
Download the requests package & copy into your Python environment
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Name: requests-2.32.5.tar.gz Size: 134517 bytes (131 KiB) SHA256: DBBA0BAC56E100853DB0EA71B82B4DFD5FE2BF6D3754A8893C3AF500CEC7D7CF When 7-Zip asks Would you like to replace the existing file @PaxHeader, Press A (Always) to overwrite all such header files.
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar xcopy /E /I requests-2.32.5\src\requests C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\requests
Do the same for urllib3 -> handles HTTP connections
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Name: urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz Size: 393185 bytes (383 KiB) SHA256: 3FC47733C7E419D4BC3F6B3DC2B4F890BB743906A30D56BA4A5BFA4BBFF92760 C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar xcopy /E /I urllib3-2.5.0\src\urllib3 C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\urllib3
Do the same for certifi -> provides SSL certificates
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Name: certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz Size: 160538 bytes (156 KiB) SHA256: D8AB5478F2ECD78AF242878415AFFCE761CA6BC54A22A27E026D7C25357C3316 C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar xcopy /E /I certifi-2025.11.12\certifi C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\certifi
Do the same for idna -> supports international domain names
Do the same for charset'normalizer -> handles text encoding
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Name: charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz Size: 129418 bytes (126 KiB) SHA256: 94537985111C35F28720E43603B8E7B43A6ECFB2CE1D3058BBE955B73404E21A C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar xcopy /E /I charset_normalizer-3.4.4\src\charset_normalizer C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\charset_normalizer
Test for the expected outcome of "2.32.5" C:\app\os\python\python.exe -c "import requests; print(requests.__version__)"
Now we have to add the protobuf 5.29.4 archive
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Name: protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz Size: 424902 bytes (414 KiB) SHA256: 4F1DFCD7997B31EF8F53EC82781FF434A28BF71D9102DDDE14D076ADCFC78C99 C:\app\archiverzipz.exe x protobuf-5.29.4.tar.gz C:\app\archiverzipz.exe x protobuf-5.29.4.tar xcopy /E /I protobuf-5.29.4\google C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\google
Note that protobuf has a version compatibility rule which only shows up once you actually try to load a generated .proto file. When you run the apple_bssid_locator.py, it will complain if the version of protoc you installed is different than what had been used to generate AppleWLoc_pb2.py.
Test for expected outcome of "5.29.4" C:\app\os\python\python.exe -c "from google import protobuf; print(protobuf.__version__)"
Download & extract the Apple_bssid_locator project
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Name: apple_bssid_locator-master.zip Size: 509563 bytes (497 KiB) SHA256: 59A89D3AF89E70012493668BD71DD640C8EF39F15A88955E25B7AE242FCFC7BF I extracted to C:\tmp\apple_bssid_locator-master\apple_bssid_locator.py
Obtain your own BSSID of your hidden SSID access point <http://192.168.0.1/start.htm>
AA:BB:CC:11:22:33
Or scan your local network for BSSIDs: netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid
Run the script cd C:\tmp\apple_bssid_locator-master C:\app\os\python\python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py AA:BB:CC:11:22:33
If the BSSID is in the Apple database, you'll get something like this: { "bssid": "AA:BB:CC:11:22:33", "latitude": 40.12345678, "longitude": -120.12345678 "ssid": null }
Convert that to a location using the Google Maps URI:
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If the BSSID is NOT in the Apple database, you'll get this: C:\app\os\python\python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py AA:BB:CC:11:22:33 Searching for location of bssid: AA:BB:CC:11:22:33 The bssid was not found.
See also:
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--
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"In this work, we show that Apples WPS implementation can easily be abused to create a serious privacy threat on a global scale."
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"In this work, we show that Apple's flawed WPS can too easily be abused"
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"The attack risk stems from Apple's WiFi-based Positioning System, or WPS"
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"An unrestricted Apple API endpoint allows for easy tracking."
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"Anyone can exploit Apple's flawed WiFi-based positioning system (WPS)*
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"Researchers have discovered a crucial vulnerability in the way only Apple's location services work"
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"The threat applies even to users that do not own devices for which the WPSes are designed - individuals who own no Apple products, for instance, can have their AP in Apple's WPS merely by having Apple devices come within Wi-Fi transmission range."
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"There is one crucial difference between the way in which Apple and Google devices carry out this task and that's exactly where the privacy issue arises." "We need to understand Apple devices figure out locations differently"
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"Researchers from the University of Maryland have uncovered a significant privacy vulnerability in Apple's Wi-Fi-based Positioning System (WPS). This vulnerability enables attackers to track devices globally by exploiting the way Apple's WPS operates, raising serious privacy concerns."
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*Apple's Wi-Fi-Based Positioning System is a Privacy Nightmare* "Researchers from the University of Maryland have uncovered a significant privacy vulnerability in Apple's Wi-Fi-based Positioning System (WPS). This vulnerability enables attackers to track devices globally by exploiting the way Apple's WPS operates, raising serious privacy concerns." Back to alt.comp.os.windows-10 | Previous | Next ¡X Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Thread Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-06 10:55 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Mario Tomasella snipped-for-privacy@invalid.invalid - 2025-12-06 20:08 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-06 14:00 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-07 01:45 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-08 20:47 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-14 02:05 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-14 02:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-15 05:21 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-15 12:48 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-17 02:34 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-17 02:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-17 03:29 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-18 14:29 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Winston snipped-for-privacy@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2025-12-18 16:43 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul snipped-for-privacy@needed.invalid - 2025-12-19 00:01 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 17:55 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com - 2025-12-21 20:25 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 21:49 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com - 2025-12-22 15:08 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 09:30 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:39 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul snipped-for-privacy@needed.invalid - 2025-12-19 04:06 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:20 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-19 10:14 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-19 12:01 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 21:32 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-22 09:12 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-22 19:34 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-24 11:00 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-24 21:38 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-26 19:23 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-27 19:27 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-27 19:44 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-28 10:11 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 10:41 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-28 22:10 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 17:12 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid - 2025-12-28 19:03 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 08:09 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 01:16 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 11:32 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 04:14 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 13:43 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-30 12:07 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 07:32 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 01:23 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 11:46 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 04:26 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 14:11 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 20:35 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-22 06:28 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:44 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-22 06:41 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com - 2025-12-22 09:27 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:48 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-22 18:00 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-22 15:42 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid - 2025-12-22 19:40 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com - 2025-12-23 10:00 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-24 00:43 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-24 06:38 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID WolfFan snipped-for-privacy@zoho.com - 2026-01-01 15:34 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 01:31 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-30 17:11 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 12:47 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-30 22:24 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-30 17:18 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-31 08:03 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 00:51 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-31 20:24 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 20:30 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 07:57 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Maria Sophia snipped-for-privacy@comprehension.com - 2026-01-01 18:37 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 08:21 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-31 08:17 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 00:57 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 01:17 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com - 2026-01-01 11:07 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 21:05 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 21:12 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com - 2026-01-01 14:09 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-02 09:13 +0100
C
Carlos E.R.
Him. It is only one person doing this.
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
C
Chris
<hollow laughter> you regularly make this claim and have to be reminded each time that neither are you never wrong - such a claim is absurd in the extreme - and that you almost never admit to any errors. What you do do - as patently evidenced here - is attack, deflect, lie and deny.
As an aside, usenet is not the source of truth you think it is. It is no longer indexed anywhere and finding anything historical is difficult. Archives are constantly being deleted or moved.
C
Carlos E.R.
He did understand it very well.
He retorts that you are not asking questions about the code or saying anything about the code itself, thus your post is off topic in the python group. And you are ignoring this.
The remainder of your post is irrelevant, as it doesn't consider his issue.
Thus removing the python group on their request from this post.
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
C
Carlos E.R.
I do, as a matter of fact.
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
C
Carlos E.R.
Arlen, in this long post of yours you did not address the point R.Wieser made.
Ok, suppose I run the scripts, and have in my power the BSSIDs and SSIDs of the entire world. I still do not know which one is yours, Arlen. I can not track you.
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
J
Jon Ribbens
That's the core of the issue - I would guess that Android devices are only uploading BSSIDs to the Google database when they see that Access Point broadcast an SSID, and that SSID doesn't end with "_nomap".
iPhones on the other hand, I would guess are uploading BSSIDs to the Apple database as soon as they see that Access Point broadcasting anything, regardless of whether they have seen an SSID from it.
If it works the way I am suggesting, then it means that Google's database would automatically exclude "hidden" networks, and Apple's wouldn't - and not only that, Apple would have no way of immediately excluding them. They would need to issue updated iPhone software, and then wait until almost all iPhones in the world that were still in use were using the new software.
We can't prove what prompted Apple to change their documentation, but we certainly can prove that it did indeed change, using archive.org. In December 2025 the page did not mention hidden networks, and today it does.
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R
R.Wieser
Carlos,
And thats another of Arlens problems : You can't just retrieve records from that database.
You could plug your own BSSID into the database and get a number of other, near BSSIDs which you than also query (rinse and repeat), hoping to spread it like a water-ripple, any kind of "dead space" stops that ripple.
IOW, if there is any distance between the town you're in and the next town over you won't see that one in your results. And as good-old 'Murrica has a LOT of "dead space" (neighbours lliving miles apart) the chance that Arlens "the entire world" is nothing more than *very* wishfull thinking.
I had intended, in that other thread, to put that forward to Arlen. But seeing that he could not even grasp that the translation from a persons name to that persons (routers) BSSID was already wrought with problems I thought better of it.
Regards, Rudy Wieser
C
Carlos E.R.
Aha. Right.
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
C
Chris
I agree. And I did the same. The fact that Arlen couldn't very easily evidence his assertion, despite my challenge above, speaks volumes.
L
Lane W
Why do you call him/her Arlen if his/her preferred name is Maria? Are you from the 70s?
M
Maria Sophia
Lane W wrote:
I've answered this question a thousand times, and it simply won't stick.
Do you think I care about privacy? Yes, or No?
Do you think I say privacy is a million things, of which most people know 3 for no good reason? I used to have a security clearance at Fort Mead (which dates me, as the NSA is no longer at Fort Mead, as far as I can recall).
I know privacy. I can always learn more.
But headers are a component of privacy just as much as is rotating the time zones (which you likely didn't notice) and the IP address (via rotating VPN).
I care about privacy.
For privacy, typically on the first of the year, but it can be any time I feel it's needed, I send a thread to every newsgroup I frequent, letting them know that the headers are randomized (much like a BSSID should be).
This is to foil robotic aggregators, not you. Robots. Not people. The trolls can't fathom that privacy concept.
The trolls can't fathom that you have to actually rob a bank to be a bank robber, and not that you just happen to wear a mask for privacy reasons.
The header is the wrapping paper. It's the gift of the immense content in the body that has great value.
But aggregators "can" track your posts across the Internet. I post to many (many!) forums (web forums like XDA, Telegram, etc.)
I don't want my ID to be tracked, so I change the header. But not the body.
The body is always the same well-educated engineer/scientist. The same phone (since 2021) and the same unique screenshots. The same PC (since 2009) and again, the same unique screenshots. The same Santa Cruz Mountains location. The same excellent grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Same newsserver (although they change over time as they come and go). Hell, the same educational degrees, both undergrad and graduate.
Hell, the same source for the images, and I even re-use images, so anyone wanting to track me not by the headers, could track, oh, say, these jpegs.
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Manage Android from Windows
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sndcpy is the default now
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ADB port errors creep up
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HNS stop/start solution
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Windows Update is the problem
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net stop hns & net start hns
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Android assigns random ports
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Nobody can find locked ports
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Windows Update locks ports
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Connect over Wi-Fi sans USB
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Compare Vysor to scrcpy
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Android SMS/MMS on Windows
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Vysor IP address option
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Windows Drive: === Android
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Start /b as a CMD works! :)
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Start /b TARGET fails :(
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Free Automation APKs
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AutoIT & IFFT & Automate
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powershell hide-console trick
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Trick to pin batch shortcut
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AppPath & shortcut TARGET
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No scrcpy console window!
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REG test of showwin.lnk
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Shortcut test of showwin.lnk
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The console came up :(
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REG test of showwin.bat
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CMD test of showwin.bat
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Android mnt as drive letter
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Press two hardware buttons
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Drag APK from Windows
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Extraneous cmd window (&)
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The efficient setup explained
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An efficient program setup
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Mirror Android on any PC
Who does that, but me. Yet, the trolls, who can never add value, say that by wanting privacy, I'm a troll. They say that crap all the time, which says a lot about them.
I'm not hiding from anyone in the body.
Everything is the same in the body. It's only the header that is randomized.
Hell, few people notice but I try to end each line perfectly, even as most people might let the 80-character line wrap do it for them (that's because I wrote my own newsreader which uses gvim macros to equalize line content).
What's sadly hilarious is that, after hundreds of posts of EXACTLY the same me in every say, the trolls (especially on Apple ngs) excitedly claim I FOUND YOU!!!!!!
It's like you put this big fat egg in the middle of the lawn for the mentally challenged people, and they shout out with glee that they found what was never even for a moment hidden from people with a normal IQ.
Privacy is a million little things, of which most people only know 3.
C
Carlos E.R.
Because he is not Maria.
He is a nameshifter, he changes his name eventually. We have known him for a long time as Arlen in the past, so that's the name we stick to, not the name he uses at the current time.
I strongly dislike that he is using a woman's name, so I refuse to call him by that.
He is not a man that discovers his true self is feminine and changes his name. I would respect that.
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
M
Maria Sophia
Carlos E.R. wrote:
Hi Carlos,
Since almost nobody on these technical newsgroups are females, IMHO, I think I'll use Maria only for a few years and change it to, oh, Sally.
That would be another clear and obvious indication that I'm not hiding for even a moment FROM YOU, but from robot header aggregation tools, which is more and more of a problem even as I recognized the issue two decades ago.
And while I get why you associate nymshifting with the disgusting trolls, you need to take an elementary course in Logic (or Occam's Razor at least).
A person has to rob a bank to be called a disgusting bank robber, right? Just putting a mask on his face for privacy does not make him a criminal.
In fact, your disgusting habit of absurdly claiming everyone who uses a fake name is a troll is starting to grate on me as it's disingenuous.
You may be truly a Carlos, but your oft-repeated claim that anyone who doesn't use their real name in Usenet posts is a troll is patently absurd.
I randomize the headers by a *lot* of things, time zone being one of them. So is the IP address. And, at times, the newsreader (usually when they go suddenly defunct such as with netfront, mixmin, aioe, dizum, et al.)
But if it takes you or anyone more than a split second to realize only I post like I do, with perfect English grammer, punctuation & sentence structure, and from Santa Cruz Mountains, with a Silicon Valley heritage, and with the same phone with a unique homescreen (since 2021) and the same PC with a unique desktop (since 2009) with the same privacy focus, and even down to the same way I put a period after the double-quote, you're a moron.
Hell, who posts this kind of screenshots for decades on end, sans changing?
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scrcpy vs Vysor resolution
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iOS & Android PC mirroring
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Apple iOS & Android mirroring
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Preparing Vysor on device
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ScrCpy vs Vysor PC mirror
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Random MAC address is static
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Static/Reserved IP address
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Removing Apple iTunes crap
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Nuking Apple shitware 1 by 1
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The bloatware is everywhere
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iTunes crapware won't install
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Best iOS drivers installed
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Apple Device working properly
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iPad is connected to Win10
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Apple Win10 iOS drivers suck
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Apple iPad on Win10 over USB
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Classic Apple error 2502
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Classic Apple error 2503
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Apple Mobile Device Support
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Install Apple AMDS engine
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Classic Apple Error Code 2503
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Apple Mobile Device Support
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Connect over the Internet
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Vysor Camera virtual webcam
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Vysor Windows Virtual Camera
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Vysor searches for Android/iOS
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Classic Apple Error code 2503
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Vysor easily finds Android
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Apple Mobile Device Support
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iOS requires Apple AMDS kluge
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Remote mirror over the net
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Vysor Internet mirroring
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Vysor ADB USB setup switches
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Vysor remote sharing
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Vysor console operation
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Vysor Android/iOS PC mirroring
Only the trolls claim I troll. As you have to actually troll to be called a troll.
Just desiring privacy from robotic aggregation, while you may believe nobody has that right of privacy, does not make my valuable posts trolls.
However, it can be said that responding to your incessant trolls, may count, so stop trolling this newsgorup with your off-content bullshit.
Stick to the technical subject so we don't need to defend against your incessant trolls.
J
Jeff Liebermann
"Ads You See Online Are Now Police Surveillance"
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"This video explores how advertising data became a powerful surveillance tool."
We're all doomed.
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558
C
Carlos E.R.
No, I never said such a thing. Citation, please?
...
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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