(What you included is interesting too, but to be clear what I was referring to is the "supl" APN type, which AFAIK is intended to be used for positioning information? But it's not something I've researched at all, the extent of my knowledge was searching to try to understand the values in that comma-separated list many years ago.)
Hi Carlos,
The facts are incontrovertible, where only Jon went to the trouble to reproduce them (AFAwK). Everyone else simply used their stone-age knowledge of networking (which we all knew decades ago) to apply to this thread.
Winston just did that, multiple times in this thread, as if stating his own stone-age knowledge of networking has anything to do whatsoever with the topic. Franklin Slootweg tried the same worthless trolling as Winston did.
Please note that there's nothing wrong with people's stone-age knowledge of networking, but their stone-age knowledge, while true, doesn't apply here.
If all they can do in response to the facts posted in this thread is repeat their stone-age thought processes, then they can't possibly add value.
Then you have the trolls like Keith Thompson claiming that running python on Windows to prove what Apple & Android devices do by default with respect to Wi-Fi protocols has absolutely nothing to do with running python on windows to prove how Apple & Google devices differ from how they handle Wi-Fi metadata.
WTF?
These people are all applying their stone-age knowledge of networking, but without taking into account the verified *new* information in this thread.
Not a single person who trolled this thread shows any understanding of it.
WTF? What kind of absurd arguments are you claiming Carlos?
I don't like broccoli, so nobody on the planet likes broccoli?
More to the point, I don't bring the paintings on my wall with me when I move, but that doesn't mean that nobody brings their paintings with them.
The fact you get your access point from the ISP, while true, is an absurd way of your attempt to refute the facts proposed in this respected paper.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*I do take my many access points with me, Carlos. Dozens of them. And even if I didn't, it would still refute NOTHING in that research paper.
The fact that's your major rebuttal indicates you haven't read the paper. Read it. Please.
It's not hidden. It is, after all, in the SUBJECT line of this thread, Carlos.
Every person who tried it, found out every single statement to be true.
Hi Jon & Carlos,
The two of you show potential in being able to understand the problem set. Below are a few very important details that you don't know yet.
You're pretty far ahead of everyone else though. Vert far ahead, in fact, in terms of understanding the problem set.
Everyone else is in the stone age, but you're in the modern era. So this is just listing a few more important details you need to know.
I appreciate that Jon Ribbens not only reproduced my own horror when I found my own BSSID in Apple's database (and in no other databases!), but that he explained correctly to Carlos that only Apple does this.
While every one of us likely has the same stone-age knowledge of Wi-Fi networking, the information in this thread is new to almost all of you.
It was even new to me, last December, when, much to my horror, after I read this paper, I found my own hidden-broadcast BSSID/GPS pairs in Apple's db! *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
I was horrified!
The instant I read that paper, I did what almost all of us would do, which is I ran the code to see if what the researches said was true.
It was true! I was shocked.
As Jon has said elsewhere in this thread, what Apple does is "highly implausible"
Especially for a company that claims "we value your privacy"
But the facts are shown, in this thread, easily reproduced as Jon and I have done so, that no application of our stone-age wireless networking prepares us for the shock that Apple ignores all common privacy conventions.
Shockingly, even Google respects the hidden-broadcast BSSID. And those who know me know I don't congratulate Google easily.
But to Jon in particular, and Lawrence, and maybe also Andy, what you don't suspect most likely, is HOW the hidden-broadcast is handled by Apple/Google.
What almost nobody will know unless they researched it with the security professionals, as I have done so, is they handle it different.
Mozilla is documented to say they won't even COLLECT it. a. Let alone save it on the device. Let alone upload it to a cloud db. b. Let alone
Likewise, Android devices never even *see* it (Winston's absurd denial to that fact being brought out as this is the point of me explaining that Winston's stone-age understanding is two or three decades old).
If Android devices can't even *see* it, they don't collect it, save it on device, upload it, store it in a database (or even cull it from the database), nor can they let anyone in the world see it as it's not there.
Only Apple does it the way Apple does it.
Not only does Apple see it, but they collect it. a. They save it on device. b. They upload it to the cloud c. They do not cull it (even though the SSID ends with _nomap!
Worse. unlike Google/Mozilla and everyone else we know of, Apple does not protect it from being tracked by anyone in the world.
That's pretty bad. Is it not?
There are two fundamental issues which are making this task more difficult:
Anyone who thinks he'll understand this topic who only knows the stone-age networking basics (which we all know) will *never* understand this topic.
Anyone who says "yep" to that statement, fundamentally doesn't understand that hiding the broadcast works for every outfit on the planet we know of.
Except Apple.
When I write a thread, it's about something important most people can't even fathom, so it takes intelligence to understand the topic.
None of the common trolls, Hank or Franlin or Wolfan, et al. has the intelligence to even begin to understand this topic.
Yet, these trolls, like Nuno Silva, feel *desperate* to say "something", (anything!) because they simply cannot comprehend the topic at hand.
However, some people are intelligent, who, unlike Nuno or Winston or Franklin or Hank, et al., have the intelligence to comprehend the topic.
Only the people who possess the minimum intelligence, can add value here. Not the common trolls like Winston, Slootweg, Nuno Silva, Wolfan, et al.
Carlos, to his credit, is *trying* to bring his level of knowledge out of the stone age of networking, which, let's be clear, we all start with that.
But this topic is not from the stone age of networking. This topic is new.
If people can't follow the trail of the BSSID from the home router to the mass surveillance team somewhere in Russia (or at R122 at Fort Mead), then they have not understood how *different* things are in the modern day.
Three fundamental modern facts need to be understood before someone, like Carlos did above, simply claims "yep" to something completely incorrect.
If you don't know that difference, you know nothing about this topic. You're in the stone age of knowledge.
That isn't bad. It just means you have to seek to understand before you say "yep" to obviously incorrect assessments of the situation.
If you don't know that difference, you know nothing about this topic. You're in the stone age of knowledge.
That isn't bad. It just means you have to seek to understand before you say "yep" to obviously incorrect assessments of the situation.
If anyone is stuck in the stone age of knowledge level, that's fine, as there's nothing wrong with the stone-age knowledge that, oh, say, Winston spewed.
But spewing stone-age knowledge does not help when we all know the stone-age knowledge of networking.
What would help is if people understood the path of the BSSID/GPS pair.
Wrong.
Keith Thompson argues that your post is off topic in comp.lang.python, because you are not discussing python code. You simply posted a link that contains a reference to a Python program and said you run it. You are not discussing the code itself or making any question about it.
And he is right, IMNSHO.
It is fact, Arlen.
I did not say "nobody". That's you reading what is not in what I said.
I don't refute anything, except that you can only track a minority of users worldwide.
No.
It is good Usenet manners to explain the subject in the body.
...
The point we are saying is not what you claim it to be. It is not about Apple storing and publishing BSSIDs of hidden SSIDs. This is bad behaviour by them. Ok. But our point is that you gain nothing by making your AP hidden in the first place.
I guess the challenge here is how can they know not to add the MAC address if the SSID with the "_nomap" request invisible.
That's purely a correlation. It could be a coincidence. And is there any evidence that the documentation did change? We only have his say so.
Maria Sophia snipped-for-privacy@comprehension.com writes: [...]
[...]That is, of course, not at all what I wrote.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you actually understood my point, which is that you are writing multiple long posts on comp.lang.python with no content about programming in Python, and that that's inappropriate. Assuming that you're intelligent enough to understand that, I can only conclude that you are deliberately lying about me.
(On the other hand, if you actually believe what you wrote above, that raises more serious concerns about your veracity.)
The fact that you would lie about something so easily verifiable does not fill me with confidence that you're being truthful about whatever issue you're talking about with respect to Apple and Wi-Fi. It's obviously something that you consider very important, so you might consider not behaving in a manner that will piss off reasonable people and lead them to question your honesty.
I lack both the background and the interest to directly verify or refute your claims. For all I know, everything you've been saying might be perfectly accurate. But because of the reputation you've constructed for yourself here, I can't be sure of that.
I urge everyone participating in this thread to *at least* drop comp.lang.python from the "Newsgroups:" header line, even if Maria adds it back. (I've left it in place for this followup, since I'm discussing topicality in comp.lang.python.)
I once thought like you did and still gave them the benefit of doubt. (Check the "How does whatsapp work?" thread (subjects changed halfway several times, rooted at [1]) on comp.mobile.android.) Then they attacked you and Frank in this fashion.
[1] snipped-for-privacy@4ax.comIn the end, they destroyed any value their words could have had. In the past few hours there was another post with nice words to somebody else, but those words mean nothing, for all it takes is a small bit flip somewhere and you're suddenly a "troll" to them.
Yeah, indeed. But which groups are you reading, of the remaining ones?
The thing is, the single thing of hiding the SSID marks the intention that this AP should not be mapped.
Maybe there is not a paper that says this, but google and Mozilla are doing so. Apple was not doing it, and apparently they wrote now in their documentation that they not doing it. ie, they wrote that they will record hidden sites.
People can't understand what the issue is if they don't understand the breadcrumb trail from your router access point to my Win10 python runs.
They just can't. Their stone-age knowledge of networking doesn't prepare them for it.
Keith didn't understand that you have to run the python code that was pointed to in the very first post, Carlos, which Jon found easily.
The instant I read the paper, I found and ran the Python code on Win10. Why can Jon and I do it, but Keith complains he can't read the paper?
BTW, Keith can whine all he wants that Python code isn't python code. But it's clear he's just whining about something he didn't even read.
Jesus Christ, Carlos. Have you never once taken a course in basic logic?
Because you don't own a red car, you claim (in effect) red cars can't exist. Your entire rebuttal consist of that? WTF? It's ridiculous.
For some odd reason, your claim that because you do it one way, that you think that refutes the fact that BILLIONS of people do it differently.
I wouldn't mind if you made that preposterous argument only once, as I'd only need to point out your nonsensical bizarre point of view only once.
But you've been foisting that grotesque farcical rebuttal on us since we started investigating this issue, oh, since way back in December 2026.
When will you stop proposing that absurd rebuttal that the fact you don't own a red car, you think, negates the fact that billions of other people can own red cars?
Clearly you did not read the paper. Read it Carlos.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*Do not respond until you've shown you read the paper, please.
If someone hasn't read the paper, they can't possibly understand the issue.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
The subject says: a. Apple changed their documentation b. at my request c. but it proves they don't care about privacy
Since we provided the old documentation in the past, those trolls (like Winston) who said there's no "proof", were simply trolling us, as they didn't even read to know it never said that until after I contacted them.
At my request, would be hard for anyone here to verify, although the time points all line up, as you all know I complained about this back in December, and I stated then, that I had my neighbor file the RADAR report.
I also stated at that time, they removed my hidden BSSID, but I'm likely the only one in the world who has had that favor (as far as we would know).
The part about privacy is harder for people on this group to comprehend since they're all seemingly stuck in the stone age of wireless networking.
They don't know how to follow the BSSID/GPS breadcrumb trail from an iOS or Android device (as it's very different!) to the Apple or Google database (as that's different too!) and eventually to the Python code that Keith says doesn't exist but which both Jon and I dutifully ran to confirm.
To put it bluntly, everyone but Apple will NOT distribute your BSSID if it's hidden broadcast. Only Apple refuses to abide by that convention.
Hi Keith,
Python group dropped in the f'up, where there are only two people on that group who matter, so I hope they don't lose out because it's being dropped.
Also dropped are the iOS group, as only the trolls (Chris, Wolfan) responded, so it is a waste to ever include Apple people on any thread.
Also dropped is Android as, at least Android devices won't even *see* the BSSID when hidden (let alone collect it, save it, upload it, for it to later be scrubbed because SSID contains, also, the _nomap directive).
So it's really an Apple-only problem anyway, although, everyone owns a router (so to speak) whether or not they own Android or iOS devices.
The problem isn't caused by Android devices anyway. The problem is caused by iOS devices alone.
The only reason for the Windows newsgroup is most of the code is batch code, where the python code does the heavy lifting of delving deeply into the Apple WPS database, so they work together, Windows and Python.
Although the Python code could just as easily have been run on Linux. Or macOS.
Anyway, I'll take your concerns to heart, where I think the fact that at least one person reproduced EXACTLY the claims I made, should be enough for all to realize everything I've said is not only true, but easily reproduced.
This is because I'm extremely well educated in the sciences and engineering so I don't say things which aren't reproducable by others following me.
Nobody, in my decades on Usnent, has ever found a fact I've claimed to be a fact, ever to be wrong, and if, perchance, I make a typo or a forgetful faux pas, everyone knows I admit to it immediately, as what matters is only the facts that remain in the Usenet record for generations to read later.
At this point, only the alt.internet.wireless newsgroup remains on the followup. But that's a dead newsgroup, so, while extremely relevant, it won't go anywhere and this thread will remain the reference that it is.
As a final summary of the situation, as I see it, based on responses, people can't understand what the issue is if they don't understand the breadcrumb trail from your router access point to my Win10 python runs.
They just can't. Their stone-age knowledge of networking doesn't prepare them for it.
Jon ran the python code. I ran it.
Nobody else did (to our knowledge). So nobody understands what that Python code does.
We both confirmed that it works exactly the way I said it works. Which, I only know, because I ran the Python code you claim isn't there.
I ran that code the instant I read this paper, in fact. *Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*
Knowing that Google doesn't even *see* my hidden-broadcast BSSID, I was horrified to see a dozen of my BSSID/GPS pairs in the Apple WPS database.
That revelation, which started with the Python code, is what started this. If someone hasn't read the paper, they can't possibly understand the issue.
And, if they haven't set their BSSID to hidden, and run the Python code, again, they can't possibly understand the issue because all their knowledge is forever stuck in the stone age of wireless metadata, which, while true, doesn't prepare them for the shock of what that Python code revealed to us.
Their stone-age knowledge of wireless networking doesn't prepare them.
Removing all but alt.internet.wireless from the f'up since the Apple trolls (Chris, in this instance) are bullshitting us like there's no tomorrow.
The BSSID:GPS breadcrumb trail is very DIFFERENMT between iOS & Android devices & it's very DIFFRERENT between Python & the Apple/Google databases.
First off, we discussed this in December, in gory detail, and we covered EXACTLY what the Apple documentation said, and we discussed EXACTLY that I went to a my next-door neighbor, who is an executive at Apple to get it corrected, and we discussed, THEN, that it wasn't documented, for God's sake.
Moreso, as we know now, it's corrected.
So the bullshit that Chris (a known Apple religious zealot troll) spewed is classic Apple troll bullshit spewed for no other reason than to defend his Apple God to the death, no matter what, using the first absurdly preposterous argument he can come up with.
Hell, even if everything I said wasn't true (& in the record) the very fact that Apple documentation says it TODAY proves the veracity of my point.
The Apple religious zealots will stop at nothing to protect Apple's honor.
Yet, what matters for the people on this newsgroup who are not Apple religious zealots who defend Apple to the death no matter what, using the first preposterous excuse they can think off... the facts remain facts.
Likely only one out of ten million people know what I'm saying below... (which is why having a stone-age knowledge of networking, doesn't help)
I only collected tens of thousands, but anyone with almost no technical skills whatsoever, can clearly track every single BSSID:GPS pair in the world, from anywhere in the world, using the Python code Jon and I ran.
Those of you who only own the stone-age networking knowledge we all learned decades ago won't be prepared to understand what I just explained to you.
Only Apple does this. Nobody else (to my knowledge).
The BSSID:GPS breadcrumb trail is very DIFFERENMT between iOS & Android devices & it's very DIFFRERENT between Python & the Apple/Google databases.
Carlos, to his credit, is correct.
Chris is a known Apple religious zealot who is reaching at straws to defend his Apple God to the death, using the first absurd denial he can come up with.
Chris claimed there's no proof that we proved already long ago what Apple documentation said, which is bullshit but even so, we know what it says now.
The Apple religious zealots can spew all the nutcase bullshit they want to spew, but none of their defenses of Apple's honor changes that documentation.
Only I got that documentation changed. Not them.
And that's because Apple *knew* I was right. They're not stupid.
They're a lot of bad things, but stupid is never one of them. They knew I had threatened legal consequences if they didn't change it.
Or fix it. But they decided NOT to fix it.
We covered the EXACT documentation, long ago, where both Mozilla and Google clearly stated they won't even COLLECT the BSSID if it's hidden broadcast.
I provided it already, elsewhere in this thread, so that's a given. It's well known that a hidden-broadcast is an indicator of desired privacy.
The difference is: a. Apple ignores that privacy indicator b. Google/Mozilla respect it
Likely only one out of ten million people know what I'm saying below... (which is why having a stone-age knowledge of networking, doesn't help)
I only collected tens of thousands, but anyone with almost no technical skills whatsoever, can clearly track every single BSSID:GPS pair in the world, from anywhere in the world, using the Python code Jon and I ran.
Those of you who only own the stone-age networking knowledge we all learned decades ago won't be prepared to understand what I just explained to you.
Only Apple does this. Nobody else (to my knowledge).
The BSSID:GPS breadcrumb trail is very DIFFERENMT between iOS & Android devices & it's very DIFFRERENT between Python & the Apple/Google databases.
Hi Carlos,
I disagree.
The answer to *this* question, will tell you why what you said is wrong:
Q: Will Google's WPS database contain a BSSID:GPS pair for an access point whose SSID broadcast is set to hidden (i.e., empty or null)? A: Please answer "yes", or "no".
I know the answer to that question. You clearly do not.
Once you know the answer to that question, you'll see why what you said, is dead wrong.
I could ask the same question of the Mozilla MLS, but it's now defunct, but they document this (and we published that documentation elsewhere).
Only Apple ignores the clear privacy intent of setting a hidden SSID. Nobody else.
Just Apple. (to our knowledge)
First, let's address Andy's point because Andy didn't read the paper, so Andy thinks it's about individuals, and not about the masses.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*Let's simply apply Flock license-plate readers to that paper by way of an analogy, but we have to modify the protections, which, let's be clear, is the entire point of that paper. A. Flock has protection B. Google has protection C. Apple has no protection
With that in mind, let's answer Andy's question using a Flock database.
Does a FLOCK camera need to know who the driver of the vehicle is? Yes? or No?
What matters is the vehicle is in that spot, at that time, right? Worse, what matters is ANYONE in the world can run the python script. So anyone in the world knows all vehicle's locations at that time, right?
Oh, it gets worse. Not only do they know all vehicle's location, but they get the nearest 400 vehicles every time they query just one vehicle. Google doesn't do that.
Only Apple does that. But wait, it gets worse.
I wrote the Python code that gets the farthest away BSSID, and then gets the next 400 nearest vehicles. And the next. And the next, And the next.
Just like the researchers said, I could collect the location of every single vehicle in the world, which is why it's *mass* surveillance.
*Surveilling the Masses with Wi-Fi-Based Positioning Systems*Andy... it's not "individual" surveillance in that title. It's "mass" surveillance.
Big difference. Now back to Rudy's offer of providing the message ID.
NOT FOUND
Let's try
Let's try
Hence, this tutorial is only useful if you want to control the query of Apple's highly insecure WPS database, which has no privacy controls.
For example, you can query thousands of BSSID's in a single command. I'm not promoting that action, but I'm making the point it can be done.
See also: From: Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.internet.wireless Subject: How to test if your access point BSSID is in the highly insecure Apple WPS database Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2025 05:08:08 -0700 Message-ID: <10guhv8$ig7$ snipped-for-privacy@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>
Tutorial: *Query the Apple database for your access point BSSID*
Name: python-3.14.1-amd64.exe Size: 29883656 bytes (28 MiB) SHA256: 74E1516408744190FCC12307C150DE30902898444F77F85F4C2AC18F36788A80 I installed into C:\app\os\python\python.exe REM Create site-packages if missing mkdir C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages
Name: requests-2.32.5.tar.gz Size: 134517 bytes (131 KiB) SHA256: DBBA0BAC56E100853DB0EA71B82B4DFD5FE2BF6D3754A8893C3AF500CEC7D7CF When 7-Zip asks Would you like to replace the existing file @PaxHeader, Press A (Always) to overwrite all such header files.
C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x requests-2.32.5.tar xcopy /E /I requests-2.32.5\src\requests C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\requests
Name: urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz Size: 393185 bytes (383 KiB) SHA256: 3FC47733C7E419D4BC3F6B3DC2B4F890BB743906A30D56BA4A5BFA4BBFF92760 C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x urllib3-2.5.0.tar xcopy /E /I urllib3-2.5.0\src\urllib3 C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\urllib3
Name: certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz Size: 160538 bytes (156 KiB) SHA256: D8AB5478F2ECD78AF242878415AFFCE761CA6BC54A22A27E026D7C25357C3316 C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x certifi-2025.11.12.tar xcopy /E /I certifi-2025.11.12\certifi C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\certifi
Name: idna-3.11.tar.gz Size: 194582 bytes (190 KiB) SHA256: 795DAFCC9C04ED0C1FB032C2AA73654D8E8C5023A7DF64A53F39190ADA629902 xcopy /E /I idna-3.11\idna C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\idna C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x idna-3.11.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x idna-3.11.tar xcopy /E /I idna-3.11\idna C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\idna
Name: charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz Size: 129418 bytes (126 KiB) SHA256: 94537985111C35F28720E43603B8E7B43A6ECFB2CE1D3058BBE955B73404E21A C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar.gz C:\app\archiver\7zip\7z.exe x charset_normalizer-3.4.4.tar xcopy /E /I charset_normalizer-3.4.4\src\charset_normalizer C:\app\os\python\Lib\site-packages\charset_normalizer
Note that protobuf has a version compatibility rule which only shows up once you actually try to load a generated .proto file. When you run the apple_bssid_locator.py, it will complain if the version of protoc you installed is different than what had been used to generate AppleWLoc_pb2.py.
Name: apple_bssid_locator-master.zip Size: 509563 bytes (497 KiB) SHA256: 59A89D3AF89E70012493668BD71DD640C8EF39F15A88955E25B7AE242FCFC7BF I extracted to C:\tmp\apple_bssid_locator-master\apple_bssid_locator.py
AA:BB:CC:11:22:33
Or scan your local network for BSSIDs: netsh wlan show networks mode=bssid
If the BSSID is in the Apple database, you'll get something like this: { "bssid": "AA:BB:CC:11:22:33", "latitude": 40.12345678, "longitude": -120.12345678 "ssid": null }
Convert that to a location using the Google Maps URI:
If the BSSID is NOT in the Apple database, you'll get this: C:\app\os\python\python.exe apple_bssid_locator.py AA:BB:CC:11:22:33 Searching for location of bssid: AA:BB:CC:11:22:33 The bssid was not found.
See also:
--
"In this work, we show that Apples WPS implementation can easily be abused to create a serious privacy threat on a global scale."
"In this work, we show that Apple's flawed WPS can too easily be abused"
"The attack risk stems from Apple's WiFi-based Positioning System, or WPS"
"An unrestricted Apple API endpoint allows for easy tracking."
"Anyone can exploit Apple's flawed WiFi-based positioning system (WPS)*
"Researchers have discovered a crucial vulnerability in the way only Apple's location services work"
"The threat applies even to users that do not own devices for which the WPSes are designed - individuals who own no Apple products, for instance, can have their AP in Apple's WPS merely by having Apple devices come within Wi-Fi transmission range."
"There is one crucial difference between the way in which Apple and Google devices carry out this task and that's exactly where the privacy issue arises." "We need to understand Apple devices figure out locations differently"
"Researchers from the University of Maryland have uncovered a significant privacy vulnerability in Apple's Wi-Fi-based Positioning System (WPS). This vulnerability enables attackers to track devices globally by exploiting the way Apple's WPS operates, raising serious privacy concerns."
Thread Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-06 10:55 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Mario Tomasella snipped-for-privacy@invalid.invalid - 2025-12-06 20:08 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-06 14:00 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-07 01:45 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-08 20:47 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-14 02:05 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-14 02:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-15 05:21 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-15 12:48 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-17 02:34 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-17 02:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-17 03:29 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-18 14:29 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Winston snipped-for-privacy@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2025-12-18 16:43 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul snipped-for-privacy@needed.invalid - 2025-12-19 00:01 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 17:55 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com - 2025-12-21 20:25 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 21:49 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com - 2025-12-22 15:08 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 09:30 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:39 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Paul snipped-for-privacy@needed.invalid - 2025-12-19 04:06 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:20 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-19 10:14 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-19 12:01 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 21:32 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-22 09:12 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:52 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-22 19:34 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-24 11:00 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-24 21:38 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-26 19:23 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-27 19:27 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-27 19:44 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-28 10:11 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 10:41 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-28 22:10 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 17:12 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-28 17:24 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid - 2025-12-28 19:03 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 08:09 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 01:16 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 11:32 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 04:14 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 13:43 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-30 12:07 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 07:32 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 01:23 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 11:46 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 04:26 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-29 14:11 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-21 20:35 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-22 06:28 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:44 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-22 06:41 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com - 2025-12-22 09:27 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-22 10:48 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-22 18:00 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-22 15:42 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Hank Rogers snipped-for-privacy@nospam.invalid - 2025-12-22 19:40 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Chris snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com - 2025-12-23 10:00 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-24 00:43 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-24 06:38 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID WolfFan snipped-for-privacy@zoho.com - 2026-01-01 15:34 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-29 01:31 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Andy Burns snipped-for-privacy@andyburns.uk - 2025-12-30 17:11 +0000 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 12:47 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-30 22:24 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-30 17:18 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-31 08:03 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 00:51 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Char Jackson snipped-for-privacy@none.invalid - 2025-12-31 20:24 -0600 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 20:30 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 07:57 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Maria Sophia snipped-for-privacy@comprehension.com - 2026-01-01 18:37 -0500 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 08:21 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2025-12-31 08:17 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 00:57 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Marian snipped-for-privacy@helpfulpeople.com - 2025-12-31 01:17 -0700 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com - 2026-01-01 11:07 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 21:05 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-01 21:12 +0100 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com - 2026-01-01 14:09 -0800 Re: Tutorial: Query the Apple database with Python for your access point BSSID "R.Wieser" snipped-for-privacy@is.invalid - 2026-01-02 09:13 +0100
Him. It is only one person doing this.
<hollow laughter> you regularly make this claim and have to be reminded each time that neither are you never wrong - such a claim is absurd in the extreme - and that you almost never admit to any errors. What you do do - as patently evidenced here - is attack, deflect, lie and deny.
As an aside, usenet is not the source of truth you think it is. It is no longer indexed anywhere and finding anything historical is difficult. Archives are constantly being deleted or moved.
He did understand it very well.
He retorts that you are not asking questions about the code or saying anything about the code itself, thus your post is off topic in the python group. And you are ignoring this.
The remainder of your post is irrelevant, as it doesn't consider his issue.
Thus removing the python group on their request from this post.
I do, as a matter of fact.
Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.
Ask the community — no account required