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TELECOM Moderator Nov 12 1991, 8:30 am Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom From: snipped-for-privacy@eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Moderator) Date: 12 Nov 91 06:45:34 GMT Local: Tues, Nov 12 1991 2:45 am Subject: On Having Telco as a Housemate (was Question Easement)
Here is the story I promised earlier which originally appeared in TELECOM Digest on Sunday, February 26, 1989 along with a few replies which appeared in the week following.
PAT
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 89 1:04:38 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: On Having Telco As a 'Housemate'
I will sub-title this report 'The Case of the Box Which Won't Be Removed'. The location is Lockport, Illinois; a suburban community thirty miles or so southwest of Chicago. It is served by Illinois Bell; or should I say the lady I will tell you about serves IBT. One way or the other -- anyway --
Wanting to get out of the city, the lady bought a house in Lockport. It is an older place, but very well maintained over the years. One room would make a great den, but there was one problem that had to be taken care of first. In one corner of the room sat a box, about five feet high and four feet square. There were about 500 wires running in and out of it, all eventually finding their way through a hole in the wall. On the outside of the house at that point, the wires ran a short distance, then went down into the ground in a metal conduit like thing.
Curious about it, she asked the realtor what it might be for, and was told that a former occupant of the house had operated an answering service there. The room she was planning for her den had been the switchboard area for the answering service years before.
The lady called up Illinois Bell to see about having it removed. IBT agreed to do so for the mere sum of $2,400. *And they agreed the box was dead*. The lady protested; saying that $2,400 seemed a lot of money to yank out the old box, especially since nothing was going in its place provided by the phone company.
After asking around, she found an independent workman willing to remove the box for $300, and was about to tell him to go ahead with the work when two people from Bell stopped by to see her, to warn that if any lines were broken or damaged, she would have to pay $70 for the repair of each. She said she thought $70 was rather outrageous for the repair of useless, dead lines, but the guys from Bell said in fact the lines were alive. They did agree to reduce their price and remove the box for 'only $1800', and completely indemnify her against damages or disruption of service which might occur in the process.
Her independent workman took another look and confirmed what Bell had said: The box was in fact alive, and nearly 500 working pairs were terminated inside. Together they went back to Bell, and got the price for removal of the box negotiated down to only $1200.
The lady said she had no intention of paying *anything* to take it out. And really, can you blame her? Finally with no place else to turn, she went to see the house's former owner; the fellow who had run the answering service. He said he thought Illinois Bell had been granted an easement to have the box there.
And now the matter becomes even more mysterious. The lady went to the village hall and spoke to Lockport officials herself; and yes, they said, Illinois Bell *does* have an easement to that room in your house. They were unable, however, to show her a signed document from the previous owner giving easement rights to Bell. Tbe former owner insists he never signed anything; he claims they put the box in when he started the answering service back in the middle 1950's; and he claims he can't remember ever giving Bell permanent squatting rights there.
After continued negotiations, IBT still insists it needs $1200 to remove its equipment and give up its easement rights. In the meantime, the lady won't budge, and she is living there with a Pandora's Box filled with legal ramifications for a 'roomate'. The search goes on for an official record of the easement with someone's signature on it. I suspect if and when it is found it will be the signature of the former owner. The contractor hired by the woman has identified a dozen businesses and several dozen residences in the vicinity which show up on terminals in the box.
I think eventually if an easement record cannot be located, IBT will have to bite the dust and relocate the whole thing at thier expense. The woman has said if the easement *is* found, and it contains the signature of the former owner, she will sue him if necessary to make him pay for the removal.
In the meantime if something goes wrong and Bell has to visit the box? Well, let's hope the woman isn't asleep, in the bathroom or otherwise 'indisposed' when her 'roomates' visitors show up!
Patrick Townson
Subject: Re: Telco As a 'Housemate' Date: Mon, 27 Feb 89 12:40:48 -0500 From: Joel B Levin
If I were that lady, and IBT came to the door because they needed access to work on one of the lines that came to that box, I would give it to them -- as soon as they showed me the document granting telco the easement. Not before.
Another tack--
Is there some way a noisy electrical device (an old refrigerator or something) next to the box might cause noticeable noise on the lines? That also might provide some impetus for them to move the box (or really make it dead). After all, they can't tell her what she can or can't have in some corner of her den.
/JBL
From: Mark Brukhartz Subject: Re: On Having Telco As a 'Housemate' Date: 1 Mar 89 19:16:45 GMT Organization: Lachman Associates, Inc., Naperville, IL
This woman ought to consult a real estate attorney without delay. I believe that her seller was responsible for conveying a clear title to the property, including a written description of any easements. He (or his title insurance company) are probably responsible for Illinois Bell's claim of easement.
I understand that uncontested use of a property will mature into permanent rights after some (forgotten) interval.
Mark Brukhartz Lachman Associates, Inc. ..!{amdahl, masscomp, nucsrl, sun}!laidbak!mdb
From: John Allred Subject: Re: On Having Telco As a 'Housemate' Date: 2 Mar 89 16:40:10 GMT Reply-To: John Allred Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
I think the interval is 20 years for "adverse use" of property. Your mileage may vary.
John Allred BBN Systems and Technologies Corp. ( snipped-for-privacy@bbn.com)
From: Darren Griffiths Subject: Re: On Having Telco As a 'Housemate' Date: 4 Mar 89 01:13:09 GMT Reply-To: Darren Griffiths Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
It seems like it should be pretty easy to get the box removed. Simply have the lady go down to Radio Shack and buy a line kit that can be connected straight to the punch down block that's probably in the box. Whenever she has some spare time try a few of the lines, see who's talking and interrupt them. If they aren't to angry at someone listening to their phone calls then she could explain the situation and have them call IBT. If they are angry I'm sure they'll call IBT anyway.
Darren Griffiths snipped-for-privacy@LBL.GOV Lawrence Berkeley Labs Information and Computing Sciences Division
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And there you have it ... the story which appeared here over two years ago. I had forgotten one detail: The box was not in her bedroom, but actually in the room she wanted to use as a den.
PAT
Lars Poulsen Nov 16 1991, 6:34 am show options Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom From: snipped-for-privacy@cmc.com (Lars Poulsen) - Find messages by this author Date: 15 Nov 91 18:58:35 GMT Local: Fri, Nov 15 1991 2:58 pm Subject: Re: On Having Telco as a Housemate (was Question Easement) Reply to Author PAT,
Don't leave us hanging like that: Did that lady ever get the box removed?
Lars Poulsen, SMTS Software Engineer CMC Rockwell snipped-for-privacy@CMC.COM
[Moderator's Note: I don't know. I never followed up on it. If someone wants to do so, I'll be glad to run a followup story. PAT][TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: And that is where things stand, seventeen years after the article first appeared here. In my recollection of this yesterday, I recalled it as being Joliet; Joliet and Lockport are next door to each other, 'sister-cities' so to speak. Pardon me if my memory is a bit hazy after all these years, even if I was the person to write it first here in 1989. If anyone wants to follow up on this, it _would_ make an interesting report. By now, I imagine the house has long been sold, maybe even a couple of times since the lady lived there who first brought it to our attention. Since I am no longer around the area at all, there is no way I can investigate it further. My offer of a followup story still stands. PAT]