Tamper Contacts

Unless you think someone in your household is going to sabotage your alarm you don't need them.

To be truly effective the pir would have to have been wired with 6 conductor wire (or you could mickey-rig it with only 5 cond...duh) ; two for the relay, two for power and two for the tamper. The tamper circuit would then be run to a 24 hour alarm zone. Some companies will wire the tamper circuit in series with the relay contacts - therefore being able to utilize only 4 conductor wiring...I see no purpose in this as it will only be effective if the pir zone is armed and then the cover opened...duh...(?).

In 25 years I've never had a PIR lose it's cover...but we're talking residential in the OP.

| > To be truly effective the pir would have to have been wired with 6 | > conductor | > wire (or you could mickey-rig it with only 5 cond...duh) ; two for the | > relay, two for power and two for the tamper. The tamper circuit would then | > be run to a 24 hour alarm zone. Some companies will wire the tamper | > circuit | > in series with the relay contacts - therefore being able to utilize only

4 | > conductor wiring...I see no purpose in this as it will only be effective | > if | > the pir zone is armed and then the cover opened...duh...(?). | >

| >

| >

| |

We are commercial not residential. I'm inferring this from your description: the purpose of the tamper is to determine if someone has cut wires while the alarm system is disabled?

If someone cuts the wire without the tamper wire in place, won't the panel sense this by some other means? On an Ademco 128BP, there would be no message on the panel?

What if someone cuts the wire while the system is enabled? Does tamper help in this case?

in the case the tamper and nc contact are wired in series...

it is being used as a way to know if a device have lost his cover (pretty useful in a large warehouse with lost of crazy folks driving lift) ;-) the zone would stay in alarm so preventing arming the system

we all know how a pir can become really unstable or totally immune to movement if there is no covert on it..knowing that there is no cover on it is a plus for me.... ;-)

"Crash Gordon" a écrit dans le message de news: 4ui4f.33$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net...

How about when the customer power washes the walls in the shop and then can't understand why the alarm keeps tripping all night long.

Terry

------------------------------- Securitech Security Services Ontario, Canada

-------------------------------

"We started the under $10 thing, So... shut up!"

Tamper would be used to notify someone that the cover was removed from the detector by possibly unauthorized persons. It is required to be connected to a 24 hour zone on all UL and ULC installations.

Terry

------------------------------- Securitech Security Services Ontario, Canada

-------------------------------

"We started the under $10 thing, So... shut up!"

There are easier ways to disable a pir...and thats why I like to use anti-masking pirs. Sorry, OP...for some reason I thought you were talking about a residential system.

| > If someone cuts the wire without the tamper wire in place, won't the panel | > sense this by some other means? | | Sometimes. If, for instance, end-of-line resistors are properly placed (at | the motion sensor for instance), then either a "fault" or "trouble" will | show up at the keypad preventing the end-user from arming the system until | the problem is repaired. If, in the process of cutting the wire, the power | supply is also shorted out, then all the keypads in the system will become | inactive and a call for service will go out to the installing company. | However, if end-of-line resistors aren't used and the power supply is only | momentarily shorted (the panel employs MOV's or an automatically resettable | circuit breaker), then you could wind up with a short across the alarm | terminals. The panel would never "see" an alarm from that zone and you | would have no way of determining at the keypad that something was amiss. | | | > On an Ademco 128BP, there would be no | > message on the panel? | | Depends. See above. | | | >

| > What if someone cuts the wire while the system is enabled? Does tamper | > help in this case? | | If they happen to "cut the wire" on a system that doesn't employ properly | installed end-of-lines, and they happen to also *short* the alarm terminals | at the same time (or within the pre-determined alarm time threshold which is | usually in milli-seconds), then you're "SOL". Chances are though, that if | someone deliberately cuts the wire on an *armed* system, the siren's going | to be going (unelss the zone's bypassed). | | Bottom line - On commercial installations always use end-of-line resistors. | Use door and window contacts with built-in end-of-lines of the correct value | for the panel (these can be ordered through most alarm companies). And | *always* utilize devices with built in tampers. | | |

perhaps a forklift safety lesson is in order?

it's a shame when we spend so much time making things perfect, hiding wire, eolr's, adjusting for height and sensitivity, cleaning off fingerprints from the wall, etc... and then someone comes along with a forklift and trashes it... or in my case, people who hang brooms off of keypad wires, and people who drive forklifts into fence posts and trash the contact (again and again)

either that or someone hires a painter... come to think of it... all the smoke detectors say "do not paint" on them somewhere... but never on a motion detector

is it just me... or should we have our own parking space and office at some of these places since we're there so often?

but back on topic... 6 conductors would be the right way to wire for tamper switches as someone mentioned... and it's probably too late for that... i believe it can still be done with just 4 conductors and still have the relay and tamper on separate zones... although i haven't tried that yet... the other thing to consider is that you'll be using twice as many zones for the motions

That's only part of the reason to use it. A dishonest employee could very easily remove the cover from a motion sensor and wad it with toilet paper (I've seen that done) so it won't sense anything. In this instance, employing the tamper would alert the CS who would in turn notify the customer.

Sometimes. If, for instance, end-of-line resistors are properly placed (at the motion sensor for instance), then either a "fault" or "trouble" will show up at the keypad preventing the end-user from arming the system until the problem is repaired. If, in the process of cutting the wire, the power supply is also shorted out, then all the keypads in the system will become inactive and a call for service will go out to the installing company. However, if end-of-line resistors aren't used and the power supply is only momentarily shorted (the panel employs MOV's or an automatically resettable circuit breaker), then you could wind up with a short across the alarm terminals. The panel would never "see" an alarm from that zone and you would have no way of determining at the keypad that something was amiss.

Depends. See above.

If they happen to "cut the wire" on a system that doesn't employ properly installed end-of-lines, and they happen to also *short* the alarm terminals at the same time (or within the pre-determined alarm time threshold which is usually in milli-seconds), then you're "SOL". Chances are though, that if someone deliberately cuts the wire on an *armed* system, the siren's going to be going (unelss the zone's bypassed).

Bottom line - On commercial installations always use end-of-line resistors. Use door and window contacts with built-in end-of-lines of the correct value for the panel (these can be ordered through most alarm companies). And

*always* utilize devices with built in tampers.

heh..i thought of that one too, but was too lazy to try to explain it.

i haven't had that one yet... spring cleaning gone wrong?

If you really wanted to get fancy you could do it with 4 and use a double balanced zone as long as main relay worked no

I guess someone would probably at the same time remove the tamper wires and set them in whatever state (closed or opened) that would be needed to fool the panel? There would be a brief tamper alarm, but it would go away and the alarm center might not act on it.

What would be a lot more useful to me would be some device that would send out e-mail notifications to a list of people based on circuits being seen as open or closed (user settable). That way even a single tamper alarm is going to be seen by someone inside the company, almost for sure. Does such a thing exist, or I guess you could just use a separate alarm panel for this purpose?

Does having the tamper circuit in place improve this situation?

What are those ways and how do you defend against them?

I'm almost starting to think you have to have a hidden camera trained on each PIR, and review for any motion alarms in the area of the PIR each day.

Pretty difficult business to do all of this right.

Not gonna say how here, but using an anti-masking pir will detect a motion from being disabled...along with using the tamper on 24hr zone.

A brief tamper alarm is still an alarm...and depending on how you want the signals handled by the cs but they generally are dispatched on.

*Any* UL or ULC listed station would act on a tamper alarm. No matter how "brief".

Most panels have a "pager" notification option. Talk to your alarmco to confirm it's available and activate it. I can tell you that your CS *will* act on a tamper signal.

The chances are extremely slim that anyone would be "lucky enough" to cut the wire in this manner. He'd have to have to be sitting on a bag of horseshoes.