Recomendation for reliable inexpensive monitoring service.

in messagenews:ZbLth.783080$5R2.193945@pd7urf3no...

I guess you weren't around yet.

Bass went off on one of his " I can do anything better than anyone else" rants ..... describing how he'd programed a Napco Keypad to say something that everyone knew he couldn't have done. I caught him on it and he hasn't said a word about his big lie since. It's no biggie except that it shows what a habitual and slimey liar he is. Can't even tell a simple little story with out making himself into some superhero.

But, as with all liars, their quest to puff up their low self esteem, they eventually forget that when the number of lies increase, that the number of times they're going to get caught increases also. That they can't get away with it all the time. And they also eventually forget what lie they told to who .... and when.

Through the years he's been caught again and again, telling outright lies, half truths, and especially making statements that end users will interpret in a derogatory way, to promote having systems installed rather than DYI. This is exactly what is so arrogant and sinister about the SOB. He's so practiced at being a two faced bastard that he doesn't even have to think about what he's doing. It's integrated into his personality ( if you can actually think of someone as offensive at that as having a personality) It just rolls out of his fat blubbery lips like the old snake oil hucksters.

It takes awhile Roland, but eventually anyone who comes to this Newsgroup new, if they stick around for awhile, eventually learns exactly why ..... it's the way it is.

I don't get it. Why BS about something that silly? What's the point? Why would a burglar be looking at a keypad in the first place? Why would a burglar be intimidated by such a message? If the burglar had already gotten to that point and was comfortable enough to be reading keypad messages like that (versus alarm zone messages scrolling on the keypad) I don't think he would be the one in trouble.

I guess you weren't around yet.

Bass went off on one of his " I can do anything better than anyone else" rants ..... describing how he'd programed a Napco Keypad to say something that everyone knew he couldn't have done. I caught him on it and he hasn't said a word about his big lie since. It's no biggie except that it shows what a habitual and slimey liar he is. Can't even tell a simple little story with out making himself into some superhero.

But, as with all liars, their quest to puff up their low self esteem, they eventually forget that when the number of lies increase, that the number of times they're going to get caught increases also. That they can't get away with it all the time. And they also eventually forget what lie they told to who .... and when.

Through the years he's been caught again and again, telling outright lies, half truths, and especially making statements that end users will interpret in a derogatory way, to promote having systems installed rather than DYI. This is exactly what is so arrogant and sinister about the SOB. He's so practiced at being a two faced bastard that he doesn't even have to think about what he's doing. It's integrated into his personality ( if you can actually think of someone as offensive at that as having a personality) It just rolls out of his fat blubbery lips like the old snake oil hucksters.

It takes awhile Roland, but eventually anyone who comes to this Newsgroup new, if they stick around for awhile, eventually learns exactly why ..... it's the way it is.

I "don't get it" either. What's really funny about this particular "installation fairy tale" is that no one in what Bass terms "the IB" picked up on it until Bob La Londe asked him how he managed to do it. Bass, BTW, still hasn't offered an explanation except to make his typical vague reference ("it's in the manual").

Now why would I purchase product from some nimrod in Florida when I can get all the product I need from behind my own counter? ;-)

"IOW's" right. Bass is a lying sack of shit. The BBB doesn't handle complaints from individuals that can't provide an invoice or contract that establishes they're legitimate customers of the business they're reporting about. For Bass to continue to spew nonsense about me and Graham being behind all these complaints is way beyond me. If Bass had any such evidence he'd post it for all to see. The fact that he hasn't simply proves he's a lying sack of shit. Moreover, the BBB's stated that "the company has responded to some of the complaints" and their website clearly lists what type of complaints they've received and the fact that (in several instances) the complainant has acknowledged "the problem" has been resolved.

"26" complaints in the last three years. They opened their file on his multiple businesses in 2002. If you conservatively estimate "8" complaints a year, that's "16" that have spooled off their radar (they only track complaints for three years). That's a total of 42 complaints which is an unacceptable amount for the size of business Bass runs. He's taken on "extra staff" and stated he's a lot more "responsive" to his customers, yet the count keeps rising. Tsk!!

This is ASA.

It was a joke I played on the pastor of the church. I abbreviated part of it (don't recall exactly; this was quite a few years ago). The irony was that instead of the pastor seeing it first one of the parishioners got freaked out, thinking it meant there was a burglar in the building.

In other words, you feel free to "BS" all you want here because this is "ASA"?

Oh, *that* explains it. Right. I thought you might have had to program the keypad while inverted.

He has a habit of making up stories like that

=A0I abbreviated part of it (don't recall exactly; this was quite a few yea= rs

the parishioners got freaked out, thinking it meant there was

What's really humorous is that every time you get caught telling a lie or making a mistake, ...... you say it was a joke.

Didja just happen to notice that ..... by the way?

I guess it's not easy being green. Eh? or a liar either. It's gotta be hard work defending yourself all the time. Making up excuses and telling more lies to cover up the first lie.

I presume you're turning a bit green now, aren't you? That's gotta be a big come down from ....... pink. Next stage is sort of greyish, I think. Then black ...... and then body parts start to fall off.

I rarely jump into your arguements with Jim, but your own "level of complexity arguement" used previously in refference to wireless contradicts this point.

For a local signal to fail to get through through the local service must fail in some manner. For a remote signal to fail to get through either the local service or the remote service can fail. More possible links to fail so more chance of a failure.

That being said, phone service, both local and long distance have become so reliable that its not a huge issue either way. Still in recent years I have seen entire local phone exchanges go down, and I have seen all long distance services to a city fail because somebody cut a cross country fiber optic line.

I must admit that like with good quality modern wireless installed by somebody who takes the time to do it right the difference is very very small, but there is a difference.

Of course the biggest contributor to signal failure is the customer themselves. Vaction rated lines, unpaid phone bills, switch to VOIP, or additon of DSL to the line etc.

guys with tiny businesses argue that local is

their way is better. The reality is that there is no

and bad remote outfits.

arguement" used previously in refference to

in some manner. For a remote signal to fail to get

possible links to fail so more chance of a failure.

reliable that its not a huge issue either way. Still

seen all long distance services to a city fail

who takes the time to do it right the difference is

themselves. Vaction rated lines, unpaid phone bills, switch

You are entirely correct, Bob. The difference exists but it is so small as to be negligible. The same can almost be said about wireless. There are differences in performance, reliability, equipment cost and life expectancy of wireless vs. wired systems. Wired alarms take longer to install and in an existing structure choice of sensor locations may be less flexible. Other than that wired has the edge over wireless on all counts. The largest issue used to be reliability. Older wireless systems were subject to all sorts of problems. Newer, high quality wireless has all but eliminated those issues. The complexity problem never goes away. It's a simple principle that the more stuff you need to get a signal from point A to point B, the more likely it is that something will fail.

The real drawback to wireless alarms is that sooner or later the manufacturer will withdraw support for a given line. That is inevitable. There's no getting around it. Once it happens, the first component failure can force a complete replacement of the system. Also, if the homeowner adds a door or window, parts may be unavailable. One manufacturer, DSC, decided to replace their

900 mHz wireless alarms with 433 mHz a few years ago. They were entirely open about the reason for the change. They could save a few cents per transmitter. Try to replace a 900 mHz door transmitter or even a keyfob.

. Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is

hat their way is better. =A0The reality is that there is no

re good and bad remote outfits.

plexity arguement" used previously in refference to

t fail in some manner. =A0For a remote signal to fail to get

e possible links to fail so more chance of a failure.

e so reliable that its not a huge issue either way. =A0Still

have seen all long distance services to a city fail

omebody who takes the time to do it right the difference is

mselves. =A0Vaction rated lines, unpaid phone bills, switch

l as to be negligible. =A0The same can almost be said about

cost and life expectancy of wireless vs. wired systems.

f sensor locations may be less flexible. =A0Other than that

to be reliability. =A0Older wireless systems were subject to

ated those issues. =A0The complexity problem never goes away.

point A to point B, the more likely it is that something

urer will withdraw support for a given line. =A0That is

t component failure can force a complete replacement of the

vailable. =A0One manufacturer, DSC, decided to replace their

ly open about the reason for the change. =A0They could save a

r even a keyfob.

You still don't know what the f*ck you're talking about. Primarily because you never installed wireless systems and you don't know anything about the latest technology.

Are there more components in wireless systems? Why of course there are. Does that mean that there is more of a chance that something will fail as compared to a hardwired system? Yes. Is the life expectancy of todays components at least 100 times longer than the expected time an alarm system will be used. YES! Therefore the more components / more likely to fail argument for not using todays wireless systems is invalid. By that theory the control panels with the thousands of microcircuits, that we use today, should be failing after a few months of use,as compared to the relay panels of yesteryear.

As far as manufacturers discontinuing a product, it's true that eventually a wireless "system" may be discontinued. However, if an installing company has any real concern for his clients, he'll make sure that he has a standby reserve of parts and accessories. And as the usual course for a discontinued product the manufacturer will maintain repair service for a period of at least a year or more after the halt of manufacturing the line. It's up to the installing company to get product repaired while he can and to hold on to equipment that may be pulled out of existing jobs.

I still maintain a few of the old Ademco 5600 wireless systems I installed 25 or more years ago, with control panels, transmiters, and keypads and other components, that I've salvaged from jobs and other installation companies.

You're wrong.

Try as you may .... you're still wrong.

Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is

their way is better. The reality is that there is no

and bad remote outfits.

complexity arguement" used previously in refference to

fail in some manner. For a remote signal to fail to get

possible links to fail so more chance of a failure.

reliable that its not a huge issue either way. Still

seen all long distance services to a city fail

somebody who takes the time to do it right the difference

themselves. Vaction rated lines, unpaid phone bills, switch

be negligible. The same can almost be said about

and life expectancy of wireless vs. wired systems.

sensor locations may be less flexible. Other than that

reliability. Older wireless systems were subject to

those issues. The complexity problem never goes away.

point A to point B, the more likely it is that something

will withdraw support for a given line. That is

failure can force a complete replacement of the

unavailable. One manufacturer, DSC, decided to replace their

about the reason for the change. They could save a

Jiminex (who does wireless because he has no idea how to do anything else) dribbled:

never installed wireless systems and you don't know

Actually, I've installed wired and wireless systms for years. I prefer wired systems because they're more reliable and because I can hide almost everything. Wireless systems are more noticeable with plastic boxes at every door and window. New, recessed transmitters help somewhat but are largely unusable with most modern windows.

You learned that from me.

compared to a hardwired system? Yes.

I see you learned two things. That is good. You're making progress. Why in no time at all we may even have you trained to feed yourself real food.

expected time an alarm system will be used.

Nope. That's just plain ridiculous.

todays wireless systems is invalid.

I probably wouldn't be able to teach this concept to you. It's a little beyond "See Spot Run 101."

use today, should be failing after a few months of

of yesteryear.

I have a little surprise for you, Jimbo. Anythying else more complex than than the next thing *of otherwise equal quality* is more likely to fail than the simpler item. Since most wireless systems are add-ons to hybrid alarms, they are by definition more complex. The control panel is the same and has a given possibility of failure on any given day. The wireless receiver and transmitters each have a specific probability of failure. Combining them with the panel *by definition* increases the likelihood of a failure.

eventually a wireless "system" may be discontinued.

Even a wireless line thqt works with a continuing line of panels can and will be discontinued at some point. For example, the Ademco (now Honeywell) Vista panels used to work with their 5700 series wireless. They changed to 5800 series and guess what. The new panels don't support 5700. Not only that but the 5700 series components are no longer sold by the manufacturer. I get calls every week from homeowners whose older Ademco Vista systems need new or replacment transmitters. They're just plain JOL.

make sure that he has a standby reserve of parts and

Yeah, sure. That's why we're constantly fielding calls from end users whose "professionally" installed alarms are now unserviceable.

maintain repair service for a period of at least a year

A year?!? Are you nuts? No need to reply. We already know. You put in a new system for Mrs. Jones and a year later she calls because she's adding a room. "Sorry, Mrs. Jones. Jiminex Security will be happy to sell you a whole new system. Just sign on the dotted line." Do your vict.. err, customers wince when you draw their blood for the signature?

company to get product repaired while he can and to

So you admit you sell used stuff! You really are a crook, Jiminex. It's a good thing you post anonymously. If your victimes saw this they'd file a class action lawsuit. They might eve repossess your rowboat.