Recomendation for reliable inexpensive monitoring service.


Looking for better pricing than the 25-30 they want locally for alarm monitoring. Found many doing a Google search but can't determine who is good/bad.

Reply to
Martin Hirsch
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Jim Rojas

Reply to
Jim Rojas

monitoring. Found many doing a Google search but can't

Try these guys. A number of my DIY customers use them. So far all have spoken well of them.

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Stay away from anyone who insists on having programming access to your system. Some companies will lock you out of your system by changing the access code as a prerequisite to monitoring your system. The problem is that some of them will refuse to change it back after the contract expires unless you pay them a fat fee, which IMO is tantamount to larceny.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

See ....

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Service is $10 a month annual prepaid. Don't even think about asking them for service though; they use subs in each city, some of whom are good, and others don't know poop from paint !

Good monitoring service though.....

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products

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(Temporarily basking in sunshine in Florida....motorcycling in January.....damn that feels good !!!)

Mart> Hi

Reply to

And neither can anyone here. It's really kind of difficult to know how you, as an end user, is going to be treated, as differentiated from an installing dealer, by a central station. Some may defer to installers ..... some may not. The problem is, you, as an end user, don't know which is which.

Keep in mind that if you aren't intimately familiar with your control panel and alarm installation, that obtaining monitoring service direct, will eliminate or, at least, greatly reduce your source of repair service. If you do get someone to do repair, you can pretty much count on the fact that they're going to charge you much higher fees than they would their regular monitored customers.

The other thing I kind of feel uneasy about is having someone far away, or in another state monitor an alarm system. Dealing with someone who's monitoring my alarm system seems to lend it self to doing business with someone in your area. Not that someone from another state is not going to do as good or a better job than someone locally, ..... it's just that I feel better about having the ability to "go there" and see what their business looks like and know that I'm dealing with someone who's running a viable business. And if there's a problem, I'd like to know that I can go there and actually hold a face to face conversation with a manager, rather than a remote voice on the telephone. I think that people who are familiar with the area that you are in, have a better "feel" about reporting to authorities and know what's happening during storms and other local emergencies much better than someone who's not. So, at the least, I'd suggest that if you have a choice, try to find a Central as near to you, as possible, if service is not a problem.

These are just some things I thought you might want to consider.

For some, the savings of a few dollars is more important.

Reply to

That is the same problem which the gentleman would face if he were to select a local firm. There's no way to know if they're good, bad or you until it's too late. As a DIYer at least he can control who has access to his system.

No one, DIYer or paid installer *repairs* alarm control panels. They are either sent in to the factory or replaced. If any other component fails it's a simple matter to remove and replace it. This isn't rocket science.

That is yet another reason to DIY.

Nonsense! The central station receiver gets signals by telephone. In this day and age it is ludicrous to pretend that there's any difference between placing a local or 800 number call.

The local vs. remote monitoring argument has been going on for decades. Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is better. Companies using large, professional monitoring centers argue that their way is better. The reality is that there is no difference at all. There are good and bad local outfits and there are good and bad remote outfits.

There is one difference that the previous poster failed to mention. If the gentleman signs with some local alarm dealer he's stuck using whatever central station they choose. The contract even allows them to change stations without the customer's consent if they find one that will do it for a dollar less. If he goes the DIY route he can decide which station to use. If he doesn't like them, he can change at will.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

No, but finding out the source of the trouble often takes someone with experience and the right tools.

Sure. He'll spend "hours" of his time findng the problem where it might take a trained technician 15 minutes. He'll then have to wait three weeks for some on line store to arrange to drop ship the part he thinks is faulty to his house. And if that part happens to require warranty service, he'll have to wait another six weeks before he can get a replacement.

Find a local company that's familiar with your equipment to provide service. You may spend a few more dollars (if it's not monitored), but at least you'll know the job's in capable hands. And before you call the "local", check them out with the BBB. Ask your neighbours who they use and what kind of service to expect.

this day and age it is ludicrous to pretend that there's any

There's a huge difference if the station isn't acceptable to the local AHJ. Call the local police department, fire and ambulance services and find out what station is or is not acceptable. If you are going to use an 800 service, make sure they know about local ordinances that could affect your service.

Local guys with tiny businesses argue that local is better.

It often is. Particularly in the fire prevention industry.

way is better. The reality is that there is no difference

On the contrary, there are huge differences between a central that employs licensed and certified staff as opposed to some "mom and pop" that's run out of a garage somewhere.

True. But how do you differentiate? And what kind of response would you get using a "remote outfit" as opposed to a "local" one?

the gentleman signs with some local alarm dealer he's stuck

That's a problem?

There's a huge cost involved in changing stations. Often it requires reprogramming the account codes. Most responsible dealers won't change for "a dollar less". Money isn't the only motivation, although you certainly make it appear so. That's a tad "disengenuous", don't you think?

That's not true either. Most UL Listed centrals won't allow a DIY to program his own alarm panel. It's got something to do with liability.

Reply to

Time for a reality check, Olson. As for tools, most of the time all you need is a simple meter, a manual and a screwdriver. I've walked scores of people through servicing their opwn alarms. It isn't rocket science. Any primate can install or service an alarm system.

Many times end users have posted right here in this newsgroup how they've waited weeks for their alarm company to service the alarm system. Those who were able to get service usually still have to wait anywhere from a day to more than a week. Then there's the cost. Some alarm dealers charge a reasonable fee for their techs' time. Others gouge the customer at every opportunity.

By opting to DIY the client can save most of the cost. With a little coaching, some common sense and a few simple tools he can also get the job done before the alarm company technician ever arrives.

What cloud are you living on? Most alarm parts are shipped from stock. We can usually get even a UPS ground shipment to the client in one to three days. If they order before 2:pm on a weekday and they want is shipped overnight they can have the component the next morning. This isn't unusual either. Most online dealers can easily run circles around the average local, independent dealer. Part of the reason for that is companies like mine have far greater purchasing power than most locals.

If it requires warranty service the client will have to wait the exact same time no matter who does the job. Some manufacturers are quick to turn things around. Others are not. However, there's no difference in their responsiveness between one dealer and the next.

Also, some distributors maintain a stock of refurbished parts for warranty work. When a panel comes in it is sent to the manufacturer for repair and a replacement is shipped immediately. When the other unit comes back it goes on the shelf for the next warranty call. The advantage here is that the replacement part can often be shipped immediately as an advance replacement. Many distributors do that for anything that is past the 30-day over-the-counter replacement policy.

If the job is DIY the part ships directly to the customer the same day the problem is discovered. If the alarm company is in the middle of this the client has to wait for a tech to come out, diagnose the trouble and remove the component. Then he has to wait for the alarm company to order the replacement part. Then he waits for them to get it from the distributor. Then he waits for the alarm company to send a technician back to reinstall the replacement part. Meanwhile the DIYer has had his system working for anywhere from several days to several weeks while the dealer's customer is still waiting.

Roll the dice and hope the tech they send actually is familiar with the system.

Or a few hundred more dollars.

Most of the time it probably will be but the customer has no way to be certain beforehand. Once that tech is loose in the house it may be too late.

That's absurd. Maybe one AHJ in 10,000 even gives a rat's olson which monitoring company is involved. In 30 years in the trade I have yet to see one single AHJ ask which central station was monitoring a system. They are concerned with how the system is wired and (if there's fire alarm involved) whether the installation meets minima. They never care who is doing the monitoring and they especially don't care whether it's UL station five states away or another UL station in the same town.

Note to new visitors: At this point several of the "professional" installers will make up stories of AHJ's demanding that only a local, independent dealer do the monitoring.

Yeah, right. Most AHJ's, police and fire departments refuse to recommend anyone at all. Doing so would be unethical (not that that would bother some folks here).

That's yet another red herring. Where there's an ordinance it is incumbent upon the alarm user to register his alarm. There is also a growing trend toward issuing fines for an inordinate number of false alarms. Alarm dealers know about that because the systems they install false 98% of the time, causing police, fire departments and AHJ's in many cities to ask their councils to write ordinances allowing them to ignore the systems.

On a side note, one dealer who recently posted a silly advertisement in this newsgroup claimed to represent the one comany that police respect the most. The funny thing is that company has the worst false alarm track record of any in the trade. It's an outfit I nicknamed "Sonitrash."

Naah. It doesn't make any difference at all. Besides, alarm dealers and alarm systems do nothing to prevent fires. When they work properly (the systems; not the dealers) they detect fires. But they don't prevent anything.

I know of a number of small central stations but I've never seen one in a garage. I even ran a small, independent alarm company for many years. We bought a house from a doctor whose office was part of the same building as the living quarters. I built a non-listed central station in the office, hired staff to man it and was able to givwe good service to my clients for many years. Since it was a wood frame building there was no way we would ever have been UL but our response times were excellent and we had a good reputation in our town and the surrounding area.

I've sen a few other small, independents that do a good job. One guy in a nearby town was a friendly competitor who liked some of the same hardware we used. His operation wasn't as fast as ours but they did a good job. When I sold my business they got the 3rd party monitoring contract.

OTOH, I know of several other local dealers (Sonitrash was the worst) who do a miserable job -- miss many signals, fail to cancel after a client gives them a valid password, delay reporting an hour or more, etc.

Unfortunately, the mix among large, 3rd party monitoring companies isn't very different. Some do an excellent, professional job. Others are totally incompetent.

Easy. DIY the installation. Select a monitoring service that doesn't require a long-term contract. Try them out for a while. If they do a good job stay with them. If not, cancel and go elsewhere. Unfortunately, if the client opts for professional installation that option is not open to him. He will have to accept whatecer monitoring center the dealer selects. Even if the initial provider is good, if the dealer later decides to switch to an outfit that charges $1 less the customer has no choice but to use them, regardless what kind of service they provide.

If you mean response to an alarm, on average it will be the same.

It is if the dealer chooses a poor quality provider to save himself a dollar or two per account per month.

If the dealer is ill prepared, that is true.

Smart independent dealers have their own 800 numbers for all their accounts. Changing providers requires a two step process. First the dealer sends a copy of the account database to the new station. Virtually every major c-s automation software packages provides an account conversion process to merge data from every other major c-s system. Next the dealer calls the telco and has them assign the 800 numbers to circuits at the new station.

When we sold our company we prepared in advance. On the appointed day the telco reassigned the numbers and the cutover was accomplished in a few minutes. Had I decided to use an out-of-state provider the procedure would have been identical since I owned the phone numbers.

Oh yeah, right. You're all in this business for the satisfaction of providing protection to helpless babies and... [excuse me while I place an online order for a shovel].

Funny how virtually every alarm monitoring contract in use today has a clause allowing the dealer to change providers without the custimers' consent.

Bullshit! Most central stations don't accept DIY because they don't want dealers to think they're competing with them. Those who do accept DIY accounts almost never insist on locking the customer out of programming his own panel. There's a good reason for that. Most DIYers would tell them to jump in the Arthur Kill (next to the rotting hull of the SS Jiminex).

Reply to
Robert L Bass

is a simple meter, a manual and a screwdriver. I've

science. Any primate can install or service an alarm

Well ............. As usual it gets down to credibility and what motivates your presence in this Newsgroup.

Lets take a little stroll down memory lane so that the end user can see what you've done to people here, through the years. That the only reason for your presence in this Newsgroup is to discredit installation companys so that you can entice end users to use your inadequate services and follow your inadaquate advice. How you've lied about installation companys and misled end users into thinking that you actually have up to date knowledge of equipment and the industry. How your BBB record of dissatisfied customers is a prime example of why no one should do business with you or believe anything that you say. .

Robert Bass is a long time trouble maker here in ASA. He's insulted just about anyone and everyone who takes any position that even slightly opposes his. He takes swipes at people and then when they respond and get angry at his arrogance and snotty attitude, he will then stand aloof and say they are the cause. Anyone who is a regular participant in this Newsgroup, knows this to be true. However, Bass depends upon the fact that newcomers, such as you, don't have the time or inclination to investigate who is giving you advice, so it's somewhat easy to dupe newbies into believing what he says. He's slick as a snake.

Many years ago, he was ousted from an aviation group for doing the very same thing that he does here. So my description of his attitude and methods now ...... is documented in posts made all those years ago by a number of other people, in almost the very same words. In other words, he does it on purpose. He has called peoples employers to try to get them in trouble and has called various other entities to get people in trouble, claiming they were not properly installing alarms. He has been caught canceling other people posts and posting to competitors web sites under the name of members of this group, that he doesn't get along with. A nasty, sneaky SOB, to say the least. He's even reported someone to one of the aviation boards for flying while intoxicated, yet had no proof. In other words, because he had a disagreement in the Newsgroup, he tried to get even by getting the other person barred from flying.

Bass's sole and only purpose here is to promote and sell equipment from his web site. He ridicules anyone who thinks that he shouldn't be doing that from a Newgroup that was set up for alarm installers and constantly belittles alarm installers. The original FAQ of the group said that there should be no advertising, but he ignores that. The original founder of the group Steve Rykman left the group in total frustration many years ago, because of the futility of trying to make the group a peaceful place without it being moderated. The turmoil was over Bass insisting on advertising his web site to end users and his arrogant attitude towards installers who do this for a living. Bass continuously mocks installers so as to make it appear that all end users can install systems easily. The reality is, some can and some can't. But listening to Bass, all installers are out to cheat end users when in reality he's setting them up to do just that .... himself.

Just thought I'd fill you in a little. I've been here for about 8 years and Bass is just one of those people that, it it were real life, you'd leave any conversation group he was involved with, because you'd likely wind up being put away for assault. He's an instigator and a purveyor of turmoil wherever he goes.

Oh and by the way, he's also a convicted felon. He doesn't have a license to install systems because of that. He's been investigated by the agency in Florida that governs the alarm industry. He skirts around the State laws providing services that should be licensed. But apparently was slick enough to get away with continuing doing business however I suspect that utimately he'll be investigated again ..... he's a slimey, devious fraud.

If you'd like references to do some searches on past events, just let me know. He's a nasty SOB and a Google search will prove it. You'll also notice that he cannot and will not object to anything that I've said, because he knows that it's all provable by simply pulling up past posts from this Newsgroup or that others who've been here long enough will corroborate it.

Reply to

In line.

Wrong "Frank".

and a screwdriver.

Sure. And the ability to use them properly.

The one's that post here looking for you when you don't answer the phone?

Sure. In about "two hours" worth of "personal telephone education", right?

waited weeks > for their alarm company to service the alarm

And ain't it amazing how "quick" you are on the "draw" to "volunteer" your "service". The net abounds with "sock puppets". Heck, I'm one myself (or so you say).

So because "others gouge the customer at every opportunity", all alarm dealers are bad. Interesting "logic". Did you use the same "logic" when you told the judge it was only a "fake" gun? "Look, your honour. Some guns are real. Others are fake and should just be ignored."

I'd like to see a DIY try and troubleshoot a fire alarm system. Something like an Edwards 8500 with full evac, about 102 zones and 21 dual zone amplifiers. Oh... let's throw in a couple of ESAC's as well as elevator homing, and pressurization turbines for the stairwells.

I have no doubt that they are. But surely you don't "stock" anything.

And a service technician can be dispatched in 1 to 3 hours (and usually is).

About 24 hours after the tech has been there and fixed the problem.

That would be difficult for _you_ to prove. How many of your customers have tried contacting you and wound up filing complaints here and at the BBB?

Not knowing your "operation" I won't comment on your "purchasing power". I do see you "power huffing and puffing" a lot though.

same time no matter who does the job.

Wrong. Most good alarm dealers settle on a single product line. This makes servicing their systems very much easier. It also makes stocking replacement parts _in the service vehicle_ a "snap". If it's a "board problem", they simply swap it out and download the sucker. Heck, even the user codes are fully restored.

difference in their responsiveness between one dealer and the

Frank said your eyes are "brown". :)

work. When a panel comes in it is sent to the

the other unit comes back it goes on the shelf for the next

be shipped immediately as an advance replacement. Many

replacement policy.

So let me get this straight. I order a part from AssHome or AssBurglar and it's defective. Your warranty page states that the part must be returned (at my cost) to the "depot" that shipped it (not to you) _after_ I contact you to get an "RMA" number (the latter process might take days or weeks according to what I've seen posted about your "communication problems"). It must then be examined, and at the depot's discretion a replacement part is returned. If that "part" happens to be the common control board for say... a FireLite fire alarm panel, then I would have to pay for a 24 hour security fire watch for how many days before I got a replacement board? Let's say it was my burg panel's common control. I pay to have the board sent back "overnight". It takes about a day for some schmuck in the warehouse to find the thing and bring it up to someone that will say: "Yep, it's defective, send him a new one". Then it'll take another day (or 2) to get back to me. That's 3 or 4 days that I won't have an alarm system (not including the day or 2 it took to squeeze the RMA number out of you). I also understand that some depots won't accept parts returned from an end-user or that were installed by an end-user. So much for DIY.

problem is discovered.

Not according to your "warranty" page.

trouble and remove the component. Then he has to wait

them to get it from the distributor. Then he waits for the

Meanwhile the DIYer has had his system working for

still waiting.

I figure Frank's right. Your eyes are "brown". And it's leaking out your ears too. Most alarm dealers will carry spare boards/parts in their trucks. Replacement is immediate. So is the programming.

Use the company that installed it and they not only will be familiar with the system, they'll carry all the spare parts they need to fix it.

Plus shipping. To and from.

monitoring company is involved.

It would behoove the customer to check first don't you think? You're always so good with dispensing advice. Why are you ignoring this simple basic "first step"?

How many jurisdictions have you worked in?

minima. They never care who is doing the monitoring and they

UL station in the same town.

When it comes to my "neck of the woods" (fire alarms), they're also concerned about whether it was "wired", "installed", and "serviced" by a qualified contractor.

anyone at all. Doing so would be unethical (not that that

I never said they'd "recommend" any particular dealer. I simply stated that some may not accept out of state/province monitoring.

And you do a lot of "trolling" and your last name is Bass.

In Vancouver the "ordinance" goes a bit further. It requires the name and license number of the installing/servicing technician. So much for "DIY".

In Vancouver, a false alarm requires the attendance of a licensed technician to verify all components in the alarm system are functional and to investigate any possible causes for the false alarm. After the third false alarm, the system is suspended from priority response until a qualified alarm tech signs off on the installation. This usually means installing upgraded equipment and might entail additional wiring to "cross-zone". A client of mine had to go through this exercise a few weeks ago. They're a local property management firm with offices in a building we service the fire alarm on.

departments and AHJ's in many cities to ask their councils to write

I just love watching you in action. You should really sell tickets. Where the hell do you get these statistics/information from? Oh wait, I forget. You make them up.

this newsgroup claimed to represent the one comany that

false alarm track record of any in the trade. It's an

And I've nicknamed your outfit "AssBurglar". So what?

alarm systems do nothing to prevent fires. When they work

prevent anything.

Like I said earlier. The OP should check with the AHJ. It's also a good idea to check with your insurance company. They might require a certificate for you to qualify for the alarm discount.

garage. I even ran a small, independent alarm company for

same building as the living quarters. I built a

able to givwe good service to my clients for many years.

been UL but our response times were excellent and we had a

Not having knowledge of your particular operation I can't comment one way or another. I know you won't meet the qualifications for fire alarm monitoring in the City of Vancouver with a non-listed central. As to your "good reputation", I've read otherwise. Or was Tom just pulling our collective legs?

Reply to

Oh, yes. Those screwdrivers can be mighty confusing. [snerk]

Is that how long it took for you to learn how to use a screwdriver?

I should wait? Actually, I usually wait a few hours while the idiots insult the end user before offering help. It makes it all the easier for the user to see who's who in ASA. You guys are so helpful. Thanks.

You're lying again. I never said that and you know it. In fact I've often said that most dealers are probably honest. Unfortunately, the customer won't know if he has selected an honest dealer or you until it's too late.

Troubleshoot one? Heck, I have numerous DIY clients installing and maintaining them. The wiring, hookup and programming are no more difficult than with burglar alarms. One part that most DIYers need help with is planning the power supply and battery calc's. Fortunately, many manufacturers provide spreadsheets or downloadable software for the purpose. Some even provide a downloadable configuration app to help DIYers (and salesmen) determine the proper hardware for the job.

Most fire alarms are smaller jobs than that. However, I have sold a fair number of large, addressable systems to DIYers. Once you read the manual it's not all that complicated.

I also sell EVAX systems. Not that many DIYers opt to install them but a few have. Some of my DIY clients also install their own access control systems.

The typical alarm dealer would have no idea how to do that either.

You alrready know that I have everything drop-shipped from the distributors and manufacturers with whom I do business. Knowing they stock it and they ship it, your assertion that it will take weeks is deliberate bullshit. IOW, you lie.

Some firms dispatch right away. Some don't. The problem, once again, is that the end user has no way ogf knowing whether the local dealer is fast, efficient and honest or you.

Not if he needs a part that's not on the truck.

Filing complaints in Usenet? Are you really that stupid?

Those are mostly fakes from Olson and Cracker. I've had maybe five legitimate complaints where I screwed something up in all the years I've run an online store. Then again, we process 30-40 sales a day, 7 days a week. You try handling that many jobs without an occasional jiminex

-up. Face it. Olson happens. :^)

You've never seen me doing anything. However, several others have posted that they found out from their distributor that we're a major account. It's no big deal really. I offer better prices than most so I sell more hardware. That means I order more, which gets me better costs. And so it goes.

So do the bad ones.

Warranty replacement is still the same. Either you swap it out with an advance replacement (just as we do) if it's within

30 days or you send it into the factory. If you do that you wait the same trime as wwe do for a replacement. If you were smart you'd keep a few refurbished units around for warranty replacement.

Except for all those times when the customer has something fail that doesn't happen to be in the van. Don't kid yourself, Bug. I've run an alarm company for many years and I know what happens better than you think.

Neat trick if it's a bad board. You have every tech keep a complete copy of all accounts? God help your vict... er, customers when your next tech decides to do a little "side work" like that turkey from S Windsor did a few years ago.

That kind of remark is your substitute for logic when you know I'm right.

Nope. We would never accept your credit card.

If it's bad out of the box we send an advance replacement and call tag it at no cost to the customer. If it's been in service for more than

30 days the customer sends it to the return address which I provide.

Actually, only one of our distributors requires an RMA. The rest take the part back directly as long as they know it's from us. I have the RMA statement so that clients will let us know what they're returning and why.

That's old hat, Bug. We now have three people on the phones and our eMail works well.

If it's within 30 days the replacement arrives at the client's address before we even see the bad part.

I don't do business with you so that's your problem. Serves you right for screwing up the installation in the first place. Next time try doing the job right.

By that time my DIY client's system would already be up and running. Sorry to hear about the delays your vict... customers suffer.

Dream on, Boug.

And yet my online business continues to grow.

It's better to give more than you promise than the other way around. Since some manufacturers don't do advance replacement I don't promise it.

I figure you can't debate intelligently.

And yet we get calls every day from distraught customers of local dealers who have left them hanging for weeks on end.

And yet... [see above]

If they want it monitored by an out of state firm they can ask the provider if they are currently handling accounts in their location. Most AHJ's if asked which monitoring service they "require," will answer about a burglar alarm system: "We don't care if it's monitored at all."

BTW, since all but a small portion of DIYers don't even want monitoring, the whole question is moot.

Thanks. Recognition at last. :^)

If it were relevent I'd suggest it.

You already know I worked throughout Connecticut or 24 years. I dealt with AHJ's in scores of cities and towns. None even asked where the CS was.

Bullshit! They care if it's done right. Sadly, too many paid "professional" installers don't do it right. With very few exceptions, if the owner of a property wants to DIY his fire alarm the law permits him to do so. The exceptions are specifically written into the law. For example, if I want to wire up my own shop which I intend to keep and use for my own business there's no problem. However, if I plan to sell the building without occupying it myself, the work is considered "contracting" and requires a license.

There's an interesting special case on this subject, BTW. In many states someone building a single family home on spec can do his own work without a license. Since that's not universal I advise clients to check first or let an electrician pull the cables, permits, etc.

If it's a fire alarm I recommend an electrician over most independent alarm dealers because too many dealers don't do neat enough work to pass inspection.

Indeed you did. That "some" so far amounts to one town in CA and they're being sued by a bunch of alarm associations who hate losing the recurring revenue. It will be interesting to see how that turns out.

I got over being bothered by fifth grade insults about the time most children grew out of making such dumb cracks. Clearly you've not yet outgrown it.

I don't care about Canada. However, many similar ordinances exist in US cities and towns. There the DIYer simply fills in his own name. No license is required.

Again, I don't care about Canada. In the USA anywhere that the installer is required to do something, the DIYer does it.

We have similar rules in a few places in the USA too. If the job is DIY the homeowner is the accepted substitute.

That's your fault. If you'd done the job right in the first place you wouldn't have these problems.

He should really consider getting another alarm company. If he was in the US I'd be happy to refer him to someone competent.

Poor fellows. I feel for them.

Careful. Jiminex will get jealous.

The NBFAA. Perhaps you've heard of them.

You're confusing me with Olson.

Oh, don't let a little thing like knowing nothing stop you. It never did before.

Since I sold the business I don't monitor anything any more. Besides, I never was interested in Canada. Unlike Olson, I registered for the draft and showed up when called.

You've read comments from people who don't know me.

He was pulling your leg. In CT I had a reputation for winning by beating the competition on price, service and quality. A few idiot competitors used to bad- mouth but they could never beat me. It's the same here. I beat the competition on price and service. You and your moron pals bad-mouth and make stupid schoolyard remarks but my business just keeps growing.

Do you think you'll make this newsgroup better by contributing more vitriol? You're sure as Waco never going to get me to stop posting. Perhaps, like Jiminex, you don't give an olson what the NG becomes. That's OK with me. I have pretty thick skin and can easily match wits with you. It isn't exactly rocket science. :^)

Reply to
Robert L Bass

I have been using for two years and have been VERY pleased. I'm going to renew for another year even though is now a little cheaper. increased their monthly fee to $11.95 recently.

Reply to

Once again into the breach...

The post I was replying to mentioned "meter". I guess you missed that.

Yeah, I admit those Phillips head screws you guys down south love so much are a challenge.

I don't see any idiots here, let alone ones that insult the OP.

I have you for a role model.

That's the way I read it though. I guess both of us have a problem reading. By the way: why snip the part about the fake gun? That was genuinely funny. Frank actually called me to say so.

Do you frequently break up people's posts to make some small points? If you take a look at what I actually wrote, you'll notice I wasn't refering to just any fire alarm system, but an Edwards 8500. But do go on. Your stories of DIY are positively fascinating. I could read them all day long.

Heh... right... You've obviously never _seen_ and 8500 let alone worked on one.

Is that what they call them in the US? Up here they're "EVAC's". That's short for "Evacuation".

Sure they have.

Of course they do.

Bingo! It's taken five separations (and an equal number of your rambling dissertations on DIY expertise) to finally get you to admit the DIY would be in way over his head in this instance.

Having had to wait "weeks" for certain fire alarm parts (Edwards 6500 for instance), as well as some replacement chips for a Keyscan system I figured I wasn't far off the mark. A liar calling someone else a liar isn't worth the pixels it's printed on, by the way.

Yeah... It takes 3 hours at the most.

Or the online vendor is "fast, efficient, and honest or you".

That just needs a quick trip to the local supplier. Add an extra two hours.

Never-the-less, I've seen them post complaints here.

And that's an outright lie, Bass. You damn well know the procedures involved in filing a complaint with the BBB and what they require from both the complainant and you. In fact, you've had dozens of complaints to deal with over the years. The count keeps changing upward even though some of the older ones have aged off the system.

That's not what the report says, and you know it.

Yeah... and I suppose online stores with the BBB online seal that do four times the business you do field the same number of complaints... Sure...

I've seen you lie. Right here in this thread. Shame on you!

Really? When was that?

Would you like cheese on your fish?

I don't see many "bad" ones. Their phone numbers don't work, for one thing.

So how much does this "advance replacement" cost? In terms of actual charges to your customer (shipping, etc.).

I can't sell "refurbished" parts on a fire alarm system. That would be illegal. ULC doesn't allow board level repairs except for the actual manufacturer.

Oh, come off it. On a burg system? Spare boards are cheap.

Yeah, sure. I guess I must be really starting to "bug" you, eh?

Nope. They're downloaded from the office.

They can't. They have to phone the office for the password for each panel. There isn't a "common one" like most alarm companies use. They also turn in their laptops at the end of the day (except for the guy "on call").

You've made quite a few "substitutes for logical remarks" here too, haven't you? You've also been caught in a blatant LIE.

Heh... right... You're such an "eager beaver" you'ld jump your pool to take an order (from anyone). If it happened to be from someone in this group, you'd go "ga-ga" with glee.

You've just answered my earlier question.

Uh-huh... and?? Does he get an "advance replacement" too? Or is this closer to the scenario I outlined earlier?

I see. So you "lie" in your directions too... typical.

Bully for you.

And after 30 days?? What?? The part disappears into the "ether" of some drop shippers warehouse where it will be dealt with "sometime". Meanwhile, the customer has a system that's out of service.

Frank warned me about you. Are you going to answer the question or just let this example of your "logic" stand for all eternity?

Snip, cut, and mix. It doesn't get any more "logical" than this.

Is that a cross between "Doug" and "Bug"? Or have I made a "hit" pretty darn close to the mark?

So does your BBB report. Is that based on some sort of mathematical formula? One to one? Two to one??

You don't even mention it.

I've gotta come down to your level to do that. It hurts my brain.

More fairly tales. You're "good", Bass.

Check. The fuzzy dice in our vans don't roll. They jiggle.

Until they try dispatching the local constabulary.

So in the six years your business has been operating the total number of monitored accounts you sold was... "6"?

In spades.

Yes, I imagine you would.

Check "scores". You write a lot of your own music don't you? Does it have a samba beat, or is it more "Bass-anova"?

That's a forgone conclusion if the qualified contractor wants to retain his licensing (and get paid).

Not _one_ in my neck of the woods.

Har-dee-har!... That's about all you know, isn't it? You can't "DIY" a fire alarm system in BC, Bass. I'll bet you can't do so in a lot of jurisdictions. But, I do like your music.

Check. "The exceptions" include "fire alarms".

There is if it requires third party commissioning. In Canada, we call that "Verification".

And your point is??

You dispense a lot of "advice", don't you?? Do you also design systems?

And your point is??

Which (if we were to use your definition of the term) means you lied... again.

No, actually. It means that the the alarm association and the companies _won_, Bass. "With Prejudice".

Like I said earlier... I've had to respond at your level which you're saying is now "fifth grade"? My brain really hurts.

Reply to

You're a lying sack of fat shit, bAss. The BBB will only accept complaints from *customers* of the business in question. They require /proof/ that there is a legitimate claim AND proof the complainant has actually done business with the complaintee.

I can say with 100% accuracy that either of the above have ever purchased nor contracted to purchase any of your wares.

Reply to
IOW, you lie.

Good for you. On what do you base your glowing testimonial on? Price? Service? Technology? Which one of their UL Listed stations happens to monitor you? Are the agents SIA certified? Licensed? Bonded? Will they provide service to the OP's location? "NextAlarm" doesn't monitor clients directly. They "resell" the service provided by numerous independent Centrals. I'd be interested to know if you've actually had any personal contact/experience with them and what that was like. "Price" shouldn't be the only factor in determining who protects your family.

Reply to
Frank Olson

Service and response time. I'm aware that they resell and that doesn't bother me as long as they're doing their job, which for two years they have been. I intentionally create falses about once a week to make sure they're keeping on the ball. Calls come within 2 minutes 90% of the time, within 5 minutes 100% of the time.

Reply to

That can be adjusted with forceps.

Oh, yeah. Those meters are real confusing. :^) If you think so, perhaps you need a different line of work.

That's what you get for missing the class in Olsonomics 101. Next time register early for a seat up front. He'll teach you how to twist.

You see people in Usenet?

More like a puppet master.

Only because you chose to read it wrong.

Nah. Both of us can read. You have a problem with honesty.

You call yourself? Cracker has medication for that.


Once in a while.

That, and large points as well.

I did.

I brought the subject up. You mentioned an advanced system which most so-called "professionals" never even see to try to counter what I said. That was disingenuous of you (not that I expected anything better).

I did a project for Edwards several years ago. Nice outfit.

You expected I'd stop if you didn't give permission? :^)

Glad you enjoy them.

It takes you that long?

I haven't needed one. I also haven't needed to pressurize a stairwell. I've worked on some fairly large, addressable systems though. Nevertheless, if a DIYer asks me about an Edwards 8500 I'll be sure to refer them to some local dealer.

Evax is a brand.

I only said that most installers wouldn't know about that. That has no bearing on the fact that many DIYers do install their own commercial fire alarms. We move several of them per website (there's more than one) per week.

If you are who I think you are, that's all bullfrank anyway. However, you might notice I don't sell the 6500 online. As a policy, I prefer to sell things that can be ordered through distribution. I do sell a few manufacturer direct items but only when there's no alternative. You wouldn't find any Radionics or DMP on my site even if they wanted me to sell it to DIYers (they don't). You will not find Mircom's limited distribution panels though I do sell their open lines all the time.

I guess that means you're about to stop.

It varies with the dealer.

If he gets stuck with you he's screwed for three to five years. If he decides he doesn't like my service he can click a link and choose a competitor in seconds.

Each way, plus an extra week while the supplier orders it in from the factory. Meanwhile, my DIY client already has his system up and running.

You've seen MM and a few other low grade moron competitors post using three dozen aliases which they created, just as Olson did when he created you.

Yep. I filed one against a pool company once. It took a few minutes online.

An online form. Nothing more.

Nothing. Responding is the vendor's option. You can respond online, by fax, by mail or not at all.

When the Waco idiot said he'd sent $9,000 in an envelop and they refused to believe it was a hoax I stopped bothering with them. They're a waste of time. They ignore complaints about members and do nothing to help non-members.

You guys keep filing more bogus ones. I don't even reply. Feel free to continue. No one cares.

I saw it once. It means nothing since all the complaints filed in the past two and a half years were bullshit from you and your pals.

Vendors who pay to join the BBB get totally different treatment. I doubt there are many online alarm vendors doing 4 times my business though. Smarthome and a few others are much bigger than us but the vast majority of online alarm dealers don't touch my sales.

Do your own homework.

A little bit of grated mozzarela is good if you mix it in with the Italian style bread crumbs. The real trick is to squeeze a bit of lime juice on top just before you pop it into the oven.

Uh-huh. No bad alarm installers. Right. :^)

Nothing. We ship repairs and replacements back to the client at no charge. If the product is bad out of the box we call tag the defective part, too. Most of the time the distributors do that for us anyway. If not, we pick up the tab. Fortunately, it doesn't happen all that often.

Bullfrank! Any time you send in a part for repairs you get back a refurbished part. It might not even be the same piece you shipped in either.

Moron! Who did you think I was referring to as doing the repairs?

So you never had a single time when a burg part failed and there wasn't a spare on the truck? Please!

Oh, wait. I almost forgot. You're just an Olson sock puppet. You stock everything from spare puppets to levitating ladders and 737 fuselages on your imaginary trucks... all the while working as a counter clerk at a small distributor and never once installing a single *anything*. Pffft!

Behind the counter?

Wrong again. I wouldn't accept an order from you if you brought cash to my doorstep.

Why would a dealer order from another dealer when he could get the part from the same distributor I do for only 10-15% more than I pay?

It's better than it used to be when I did everything myself. For a while I could hardly keep up. When I got sick last year I made "temporary" arrangements to cover me. Those have since changed from temporary to permanent. Now I'm looking for a fourth person to help with technical sales, preferably someone well versed in CCTV and access control.

If that is how you handle things I feel sorry for your victims.

While he was creating the account to pretend you exist?

Yep. You're not the only one in the thread.

I'm not sure where you learned math but obviously you weren't the brightest kid in class. It's bad enough you're dishonest but it's sad you're also dumb as a box of rocks.

My online venture began almost nine years ago while I was still running an alarm company in CT. I kept both going until I finally sold the alarm company.

When I offered monitoring service to DIYers I sold only a few monitoring contracts per week. It wasn't worth the hassle. Now I refer about the same number to 911 Alarm or Next Alarm. Let them do it. I'm busy selling systems.

Nope, but I'm learning to play the keyboard.

Nah. I prefer forro and pagode. The latter is kind of like samba with a little extra spice thrown in. Forro is like country only the words are in Portuguese. The funny part is how it got its name. You can do a little Googling to find that out if you like.

Oh, bullfrank!

That's Canada again. Try to read more carefully. I already told you several times I don't give a rat's olson what Canada allows. I sell in the USA.

You never heard me play.


Do you?

It's getting harder to spot now that my hair is growing back.

Oh, OK. So the rule was tossed? That would mean they can't stop out of state monitoring firms from servicing local accounts. I guess that, in turn, means you're a liar (but we already knew that) as well as a sock puppet.

No problem. Press *69 next time Cracker calls. Tell him your the pharmacist and his meds have been recalled. Give him your return address. He'll ship you tons of psychotropic prescription stuff for free.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Fuck you and everyone who looks like you. js

Reply to

That's gotta be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen anyone post. Beats Bass' "Attention Burglar. Go ahead, make my day" Napco LCD keypad post. How long you been workin' for "NextAlarm"?

Reply to
Frank Olson

Reply to
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