PR: Brinks vs. Tech-man.com

Clearly you DO get it. You get it every time you post here don't you? Is there not one person who will vouch for you? NOT ONE? Jeeeeze, I wonder why that is? I guess it must be everyone else who's wrong and it's not you. Is that what the answer is .....you f****ng arrogant piece of shit?

And that would be opposed to what you've done to this and other Newsgroups along with hundreds of people. How would be different from the jerk that you've made of yourself, repeatedly to HUNDREDS of people, whom you've abused and victimized through the years? You antagonize and disparage a multitude of people and then you are opposed to them and criticize them for being offended by your arrogance and nasty remarks and then try to make is seem as if THEY are the reason for your bad conduct and the disruption of this Newsgroup. Some people may be duped by you but only for a short time. I'll see to that.

If it doesn't affect you then your complusion to respond to me must just be ...... what? A feeble attempt to hang on to that last thread of life that you have so little left? The fact that I see you for what you are and I'm always in your face to expose you to anyone who may be deceived by you about what you really are?

Of course YOU'RE the one who wants "professionals" here more than anyone. If there were an abundance of professional installers here, it would be only YOU who would be there to exploit their knowledge, experience and altruism by using them to be the attraction to your website. Then you could berate them when they object to your exploitation and nasty remarks about installation companys. That's the whole story of your existance in ....and your disruption of ....this Newsgroup. That's it! Stop it and this ends. Otherwise it continues until you're gone.

But anyway, you have no idea of who I am or what I do, but I am playing the same game you've used all these years in your effort to destroy this Newsgroup. You do nasty, objectionable things here and then you've depended on the fact that people come and go and no one will be interested enough to look into your history in Usenet. Except you never counted on the fact that you'd finally meet up with someone who had a more ....* I don't give a shit about you either attitude* ..... than you have. You've got everything to lose and I risk nothing.You've destroyed this Newsgroup and I'm just keeping it in the state of rubble you've created. After you're gone, this Newsgroup will settle down and for a short while, you'll be mentioned occasionally as a festering sore that plagued the group for years. You will be remembered briefly as a scourge that existed and it will be laughed at, about of how you were treated and about your audacity to think that you were innocent of the things you've been proven guilty of, over and over. And eventually, how you died from the rot that ate up your insides. I will save all of the posts that incriminate you and what you done to this Newgroup and to individuals. And at anytime, should anyone ever try to defend you, I'll be there to remind them of exactly what you were. And I'll make sure someone else gets that information should I depart.

You will NEVER .... EVER, get away with what you've selfishly done to this otherwise fantastically potential source of information for the alarm trade and in your disgusting infected life. It will eventually become what it was meant to be, because you will no longer be it's source of destruction.

That and that alone will be your legacy here. Live with THAT for the short time you have left.

You're a relative newcomer to ASA. I've been contributing to this newsgroup for around 8 or 9 years. Since I sell more than 150 product lines in my online store I've gotten to know many manufacturers' reps and tech support staff as well as reps from virtually every major distributor in the industry. Quite a few of them have lurked here for a while, but decided not to post due to all of the attacks. One or two have occasionally posted tech helps but after a while they left as well.

You'd be surprised how many people in the trade read this newsgroup. It's far better known than you might think. The same applies to a lesser extent to the home automation newsgroup. Those who've been around longer will remember that Rick Helmke of HomeSeer and some of his employees used to contribute there. Ask him why he no longer participates. He'll tell you in no uncertain terms and it has nothing to do with me posting. He was driven out, like most true industry professionals, by the antics of the same group of people who post trash here. One of Napco's tech support used to participate here as well; not anymore. It's true whether you choose to believe it or not and it's your fault, along with the other characters like Olson, Mugford, Jiminex, Leuck and Doug.

No, I'm not confusing you with anyone else. You act like a schoolyard bully, thinking what you do here is hidden away in an obscure "chat room", but it's not. Everything you say is viewed by tens of thousands of people. It's not just see by folks searching Usenet either. Google returns rlated newsgroyup threads as well as web pages even when people are onl searching the www. Additionally, there are several websites that autmatically archive this newsgroup, creating searchable html pages of every post. Search engine spiders crawl those sites.

It makes no difference whether you start a thread just add fuel to the fire. When you post rude or denegrating comments about another dealer online, you contribute to the poor image the industry has in the public eye.

I don't need to respond to your rude posts for them to appear rude. It's what you say, not how I reply that marks the kind of person you are. You're well-known in the trade and when you post garbage it makes you *and* the trade look bad. You can call it "giggles" all you want. You still come across to outsiders as a buit of a jerk.

Another example, far worse than you, of industry misbehavior is Mugford. Here you have a guy who not only weorks in the industry but even sits on the state ECLB. So what does he contribute to the industry-related forum? Tech support? Nope. Information about developments in the trade? Nope. He posts vulgar, personal attacks on another tradesman. When he tried (and you can deny this all you want but we both know it's true) to get me in trouble with a false complaint to the licensing authority, all I had to do to get it summarily dismissed was show the agent the onlne record of Mugford's posts to this newsgroup and his "contributions" to Sabodish's hate website. The state agent was aghast! He saw right through what Mugford was doing. Imagine what it looks like to a prospective client from your area who happens to discover this newsgroup. You and a few other nasty-mouthed perps fill the newsgroup with personal attacks, right-wing, racxist trash and the like. Do you think you'd stand a chance of being hired by that customer?

No, there isn't. The majority of posts here are either OT, offensive or both and you are partly responsible for that. You're nowhere near as bad as Olson, Jiminex and Cracker but you're still responsible for bringing the newsgroup a notch lower.

Wrong. Frequently, people who come here asking legitimate questions get attacked. The worst in that regard is Cracker, but when you or anyone else responds to a newbie with rudeness, you mark yourself as a jerk. A few of these guys seem to think that if several of them post the same trash in response to my every comment, they will look good and I bad. They're wrong, of course. They just look like a bunch of inerudite bullies and because they claim to be "professionals" they make the profession look like a bunch of fools.

I think you meant suppressed. :^)

We're not talking about freedom of speech. You are free to post whatever you want. I'm only suggesting that while you exercise your freedom you also exercise self-restraint. Do what you like. It's your choice but make no mistake about it. There are consequences. You may not see it or even be aware of it (clearly the simple-minded here don't), but when you post nasty comments about other tradesmen and when you respond rudely to visitors, you hurt the industry. This is an industry which you *claim* to care about. We'll see whether that's true by how you comport yourself.

Nonsense! Other than a few relative newcomers, most of the worst offenders were here when I first came to this newsgroup. They tried to keep me from posting under the mistaken impression that they could actually regulate an ALT newsgroup. There was a ridiculous effort to create a FAQ which was supposed to govern to govern who could say what. This was in the early days and most folks here had no idea how Usenet works, other than to set up Outlook Express or Agent to read and post. When they realized there as nothing they could do to prevent me from advising DIY end users how to install their own alarms (they even tried to *prohibit* me mentioning my own URL in my posts) they resorted to posting all kinds of personal attacks. This has gone on unabated for years.

If you want an example of a freedom of speech battle, this was it. I exercised my right to post advice to DIYers. Jiminex, Doug and a few others tried to stop me. They didn't understand the relationship between ISP's and newsgroups, in particular ALT newsgroups so of course they failed. What they've done instead (and you have contributerd to this) is fill the newsgroup with scorees of daily attack posts.

Nope. That would be true if he were sending me email. By posting his verbal diahrrea in the alarm industry newsgroup, he denegrates the entire trade. However, there's no point in telling him that. He's way beyond the ability to comprehend his own sickness.

This is not just about you. There are no private conversations in Usenet. Whatever he posts affects the industry image. The same applies to you. I don't bother trying to have a reasoned conversation with Jiminex. He's not capable of it. But you are. I addressed you because I think you're adult enough to see what you're doing is wrong if you stop trying to defend yourself and think about it for a while. I hope I'm right about that.

For clarity, I'm not accusing you of racism. This discussion is about the public misbehavbior of a group of people who have ruined this newsgroup. Your part of this has been less severe than most but you contribute to the overall negative impression of the industry with personal snipes. You can continue trying to explain away what you're doing or you can carefully consider it ans perhaps change for the better. It's up to you.

Name a study since I've never met one who did drop out, you are posting an opinion with no basis in fact

hurt the industry. Most

Again name a study confirming this

damaging yourselves and that's not a problem for me.

In my opinion the rest of the industry could care less what you, me or anyone else here does. I've met maybe 3 people who know this newsgroup even exists

No study. It's simply what I've observed over nearly 30 years in the industry. Of course, the average may be somewhat skewed by a certain individual from Mataw... oh, never mind. :^)

Why would you post this directly at me when I didn't write what you are responding to?

I know that. These same folks and I have talked.

That is understandable but lurkers are usually just that. They get what the want without getting involved. It is a proven fact that only ten percent of population get involved in anything but the other 90 percent still want to know what is going on. So I will agree with you that they lurked and probably still do but I can't agree with you for the reason they choose not to post. Sorry :o]

One or two have occasionally posted tech

And they probably left the company too.

Possibly

Which is a good thing. The more of this information that gets out the better.

Understandable. It is a smaller part of the market.

It is a choice, no doubt. If they couldn't understand that there is no control, and pick out what was important to them, then they made their choice. Did they loose or did they gain by their decision? I don't know. Or where they also some that got spanked for whatever reason? Sometimes the chemistry just isn't there.

One of Napco's tech support used to

If he was telling people how to program "Go ahead make my day" in Napco keypads, I can understand why.

You just said I was a relatively new comer to this group and I don't recognize a single person you mentioned, so how could it be my fault? It might have taken me 8 or 9 years of posting to be considered at fault for anything.

Yep, it is probably their fault. Go to your rooms!!

Just what is it that has given you that opinion? I know you won't/can't give any examples but please do try. You probably misinterpret the messages as being destructive rather than the intention of being constructive. You are so gun shy about whatever is discussed with you that it is no wonder you take everything as being negative.

thinking what you do here is hidden away in an obscure "chat room",

I know better

OK. They do show the whole thread, correct?

What dealer?

Your opinion

Starting to sound like Rumsfield.

Exactly

You're

And being well known, folks know exactly where I am coming from. In many cases there is no sugar coating and I am respected for that as well. Why is it your the only one that considers what I post "garbage"?

A what?

Industry misbehavior? If so, file a complaint.

He

What other tradesman?

When he tried (and you

No he didn't. I have told you before that it was not Norm. I know who did it, I know why he did it. Did he talk to Norm, probably. And because of Norm's position, alot of contractors talk to him. The only thing Norm could have done was to tell the complaintant that he was talking to the wrong agency and that if he wanted to make a complaint that he would have to go to the another agency. It is the same message hundreds of other complaintants have been told by many different ECLB board members over many years. Standard message. What you are missing in this whole thing and of which I tried to explain to you before, over and over and over, is that the ECLB is not and cannot do anything to or for you. You are not a licensed contractor. The board Norm sits on is the Electrical Contractors Licensing Board. (ECLB) They have no jurisdiction over you because you do not have a license. They only deal with licensed contractors PERIOD. The agency that paid you a visit was from an entirely different governmental agency. Norm has nothing to do with that agency's activities. The reason I know this is because I do work with that agency periodically. I have conducted classes for them, done radio shows with them, and have been part of setting up sting operations for unlicensed activities in the past.What is there about this you do not understand. The sooner you get over this thing the better. Again, Norm did not order your investigation, he did not file the complaint, he does not have any juridiction over your activities, and his seat on the board is not one that deals with these complaints. You have the complaint, post it and I will go over it step by step.

, all I had to do to get it

Baloney! Sounds good if that is what you want to believe, but I know why it wasn't persued and that was fixed the next legislative session. Did you forget what I do legislatively down here? By the way, that same state attorney isn't working in that department anymore. She sort of quietly was transfered to another area. Don't get excited, it wasn't because of your case but an accumulation of a bunch of her decissions.

Drama

Confused again. I am not nasty-mouthed.

Still confused. I don't post any of this.

Yep, thousands of times.

I always post to the topic being discussed at the time I chime in. It the thread topic changed through the course of the thread, which happen often, that is hardly my fault. Offensive would only be if one interpeted it that way. I think you have a bit of paranoia going on. You seem to think that every post is a personal attack but you forget or don't even realize how it gets started. [sigh]

You're nowhere near as bad

Well that's a plus

And someone picks it up and makes it right, unless there is an obvious problem with the question. We have all seen it.

I usually don't respond to newbies since my experience is more on the business end of the trade. Unless it is business related I usually leave the newbie questions to those that deal operationally on a day to day, since those are the typical type questions. I don't try to be the guru when I know there are others that are more qualified than I. And from time to time I depend on their advice whether it is through the group or by email. It works for me and I appreciate it.

Again, you are confusing me with someone else because I just explained that I don't respond to newbies and when I have it has been ligitimate.

I believe you have the right to your opinion. I don't think it will change anything unless you are willing to institute the change. I told you earlier that you have the ability to control this. It is you and you alone that will have to decide if that will happen.

Your right. Thank you, didn't catch it.

Have you ever went back and re-read a thread that contains the comments your referring to? I am talking all comments, yours included. Pick a nice juicy one. Don't not read your comments because you think you know what you said. Try it and get back with me. Not this one though since it has been rather civil.

Could this be the real reason some left?

Could this have been why they left?

Maybe they did this rather than leaving. Remember I wasn't here so I don't know.

And you have obviously prevailed, but not without consequences.

Thank God. As many times as you used the word "you" I started to get a complex.

There are no private conversations in Usenet.

Well lets put it out there, since it went out anyway, one by one, and if I am wrong, which you will need to tell me why you think I am wrong, as I stated earlier I will correct it publically. How's that. There may be debate but we can keep it civil.

Thank you because you might have crossed a line if you did.

This discussion is about the

Before you started posting and may have been lurking for a bit, how was the newsgroup?

I will admit that I have taken some snipes. I even told you I would stop unless you started back up, which others have also said, mainly Frank. Then what did it I see about a month later, me thrown back into the mix during one of your rants with the "Worthless" comment. Not that it bothers me, I have heard it for near 55 years back in kindergarden. But, that is what I said about you having control. The fire was out and you choose to throw the log back on it.

How do I take that comment and post it back at you? :o]

You are the one who likes to refer to abuse as "kicks and giggles".

You still don't get it. It is because the newsgroup is filled with so much garbage that most people don't post at all. It is for this same reason that industry reps just lurk a while and then leave. It is for the same reason that many reasonable people get the impression that the industry is made up of thugs.

You can try toi arhgue over fine details all you like and nothing will change. Or... you can do your part to make it better. You choose. We'll see if you really give a whit about the industry.

The ones I've spoken to were all still doing their jobs. Otherwise I'd have no reason to contact them.

You think so? Most of the "information" is just abuse.

Nope. What they *understand* is that most of the people who claim to be alarm industry "professionals" act like a bunch of schoolyard punks. You contribute to that image. You can try to blame the viewers for seeing your behavior but it won't change anything.

The tone of your response makes it clear enough. You care nothing for the trade. Feel free to continue posting trash.

You just don't get it. The problem is...you. You would be surprised how pleasant this newsgroup becomes while you are on one of your extended vacations in Brazil. Nobody misses you while you are gone. Nobody wonders when you are coming back. It's as though you never existed.

You bring out the worst in people, at least in those who stick around. Others can list the people who no longer participate here, starting with the founder of this group, Steve Ryckman. Now, you're insulting a past president of the Florida association. You pick fights with a member of the Florida licensing board. It's always them, isn't it? It's never you.

Unlike some here, I do not wish death on you. I just wish you'd give up the alarm business and go open a deli or something.

- badenov

The "industry" experience you mention having wouldn't be centred around West Hartford, Connecticut (the "international hub" of the alarm business), would it? I guess it's all a matter of perspective. You obviously haven't hung around with the brightest bulbs in the chandelier. :)

All of the installers, technicians and owners I've met and spoken with are high school graduates and have some post secondary education (college or trade school). A few Vancouver based firms are run/owned by P.Engs. (Professional Engineers).

Oh, and one more thing: "over nearly 30 years" looks like something Bush would say.

Heh, heh, heh... No way. I'm having too much fun running my online DIY store. Besides, I'd have to take a major pay hit.

Nice try Robert. You edited what I responded to. Geezzz! Why do you do those things.

much garbage that most people don't post at all.

Maybe, but that doesn't stop them from gathering information that they find useful.

is for the same reason that many reasonable people get the

Ten or twelve regular posters, including you, hardly make up the industry.

Jesus Robert, slow down before your have coronary. Your typing goes to schmit when your enraged.

Only in threads that have your fingerprints on it. All others pretty much stay on topic.

alarm industry "professionals" act like a bunch of

And just who are "they"?

You contribute to that image. You can try to blame the viewers for seeing your behavior but it won't change

What are you saying here? It doesn't make sense. Why would I blame someone for viewing what was meant to be viewed? The only thing I am trying to change is the fact that you don't recognize the obvious. If it can't be changed, it can be at least pointed out.

How can there be any tone in an online conversation. The tone is interpeted by the reader and I am afraid that in your case, paranoia creeps into your interpetation of things.

You care nothing for the trade.

That is why I volunteer so much time for the betterment of the industry. Careless observation on your part.

Feel free to continue posting trash.

Again, posts are interpeted by the reader. Don't edit anymore of my comments that I respond to and the readers will have a good chance at looking at the whole picture.

Que tenha um bom dia!

I don't know about fights and his sniping really doesn't bother me. I get irritated at myself for wasting time trying to point out to him, as so many have done, that he is the instigator. He ignores facts, as if they never happened, and then rambles on about how people continuously pick on him. I have come to the conclusion that he must be a masochist. He starts it, gets spanked, crys, and then asked for more. I guess I just don't get it. I am done with him. It will be interesting to see if he trys to provoke me in the future. Any bets? He has done it before and I am willing to bet he will do it again. That should cement my theory.

Bob, you know that he will never admit that he can stop all of this. He just wont admit that what he is doing is the cause of the disruption of this Newsgroup.

Unfortunate for the Newsgroup, their are people who will never let someone like him control what goes on here. He just wont understand that the overwhelming concensus will never let his acerbic arrogance dictate what happens here. His idea of peace is everyone else (the majority) letting him do what he damn well pleases .... simply because he wants to.

Ain't gonna happen.

Peace begins when he stops or leaves.

Good response, by the way.

Last shot, I am tired of wasting time trying to open his eyes. The only reason I did spend some time is that I believe that at times, if he controlled himself and didn't try to be the groups mavin on every single issue whether he knows something about the subject or not, he could be a benefit to the industry and his market. But............I was wrong.

He just wont admit that what he is doing is

I am starting to think there is a deep rooted problem there that goes beyond this newsgroup.

Which he believes could be the demise of the newsgroup....oh wait...the entire industry.

Every group has their sargents at arms

And the phrase "schoolyard bully" flows off his tongue with ease. Amazing!

Thx. Seems I can pull one off every once and awhile. :o]

For the most part in this group we are strangers connected only by this forum and the interest each one of us has in this industry. Trying to figure out what is wrong with someone else that is posting here certainly exceeds my very limited expertise in that area. I am an expert only on what I personally like and don't like. Therefore I have disconnected from trying to think about anyone that posts here that I don't seem to like. I don't view me liking or disliking something or someone as being a plus or minus that anyone else needs to concern themselves with. Bass is a unique case because what you and I may detect as an issue may be something directly related to his treatment. Bass is not obligated to please anyone here or to disclose the progress of his ailments. Contrary to some others here I hope for his victory over what has taken hold in him. It seems others here (beside you and me) have some long tortured history with Bass and more than enough venom has built up to where it seems it is almost poisonous just to get too near the fray. I am not given to having the time, inclination or ability to parse out what that history should mean to me, let alone anyone else. On the face of it running a DIY outfit and posting here where most folks aren't following that business model seems bound to have some rough edges, but things seem to have gone well beyond that. I feel a little like odd man out only because there is so much posted on the residential side and I don't focus much on that market. I do see that some folks posting here have a great deal of knowledge on topics for systems integrators and I look forward to getting as much of that information as I can. Speaking of that, I think I may be getting sent to Charlottesville, Virginia for more training. Anyone know much about that neck of the woods? I have never been.

"Bob Worthy" wrote in message news:%Cp7h.14$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

I spent some time near there in the 60's. Beautiful country, slower lifestyle. Lots of history around there. Take a topcoat if you're going in the winter time, and allow some extra time to look around. I'd like to go back there someday. js

for more training. Anyone know much about that neck

Lots of history around there. Take a topcoat if

like to go back there someday.

I haven't been to Charlottesville (other than to pass through it) in many years, but that part of Virginia is very pretty. I have family about 60 +/- miles south of there in Danville. The lifestyle is laid back for a city. The down side is there isn't (or at least there wasn't) much to do after hours. They practically rolled up the sidewalks after sunset. :^)

Come on Roland! He wasn't undergoing any treatment back in the nineties, or for that matter, last year either. He's been the reason and the source of problems in other groups and here for as long as he's been in Usenet. It's all documented and it's just simply amazing that he describes the source of what goes on here as everyone elses fault.

That he doesn't see that what he does here, deriding the trade and individuals as a reflection of the worst of the trade, can only be described as astounding. It's only what everyone else does, in objection to his conduct, that he sees as the source of the destruction of this Newsgroup. It has occured to me that he may actually believe this. But he's not stupid. After the many years he's conduted him self in this manner, the only conclusion left is that he does it on purpose. He's simply that demented and manevolent a person who tries to manipulate people to achieve his agenda of doing exactly what he pleases here, not accepting any objection from anyone. No matter who he offends, insults, or belittles. What is happening in this Newsgroup has happened before, in other Newsgroups, so there is no way that he can't know that it is his conduct that is the cause.

By the way, he talks about knowing distributors and being on good terms with them. Let me tell ya, if you want to hear their side of it, you might try talking to some of the people who've delt with him in the past. So, you see, it's not even only in Usenet that he's got the reputation for being an arrogant SOB. He's the same way in real life too!

Roland, it's simply a way of life with him. He's going to continue .... and play oblivious to reality, acting as if he is right and the rest of the world is wrong. It's no coincidence that there is no one here who will vouch for him.

No one asked him about his personal life and his present health problems to begin with. He seems to like to post all his personal data for some strange reason. What do you think? If you were diagnosed with a serious illness, do you think you would be posting it on Usenet? Particularly where there was a Newsgroup where you knew everyone was hostile towards you? Think about it!!!!! Who/ What kind of person does this?

It never had to get this far .... but when peace only consists of him continuing doing whatever it is that he wants to do and everyone must accept it, then it's going to escalate to whatever it takes to make this group unusable by him. Even if it makes it unusable to everyone else too. He's admitted that no one comes here anymore, because of what goes on here and that's just the way it's going to remain. If he chooses to take the path of exploting this group and the knowledge of the professional installers that are here and would like to be here, so that he can profit, then the object has to be to make the group so objectionable, that it drives people away. And it's working. All he's got to do is tone it down, stop lying to end users, stop being the "expert" on eveything, stop telling people that they're wrong and he's always right and if they don't like it they can leave. ...... and all the other crap he's known for. That's all he has to do. As long as he continues this conduct, this Newsgroup will remain as it is. And that's really too bad.

Occasionally he leaves the Newsgroup for awhile, and it's absolutely amazing how people who are usually at odds for various reasons, begining to joke around with one another and past conflicts begin to fade away. Within two or three post upon his return, he's called someone a nasty name, passed a snide remark about someone, tells an end user what the dealer cost is on an item, sends an end user a copy of a manufacturers downloading disk, calls installers dumb or uneducated or whatever. Anything that will raise the hackels of someone in the Newsgroup. Never fails. Do you find it any wonder that he's held in the ill-regard that he is?

That's mostly because the transient people who come here are homeowners, looking for advice, so the tendancy is towards residential. I no longer do commercial work but there are some here who do some really big jobs and have lots of good information. And most everyone is up on new products and is active in the field. ( Except for Bass, who has lost his edge since he hasn't been in the field for quite of number of years. He wouldn't admit it though. He still thinks he and expert on everything, even equipment he's never even seen or installed.)

Sorry, I've no help for you in that area.

I continue to learn at every opportunity. Got some good IP seminars coming my way next month in my area and some home theater and audio seminars also. This home theater thing in really a great source of income. Tell people it's $3000.00 to install an alarm and they're crying "cantcha do better on the price"? ..... But tell em it's gonna cost $10,000.00 to do their home theater surround sound and TV setup and wiring and they're all over you to get there as fast as you can.

Roland,

Don't be fooled into believing this guy by the length of his vulgar, hateful diatribes or the frequency with which he posts them. He makes all kinds of claims and repeats them over and over. A few other malcontents who hate the fact that I cater to DIYers and that I often mention my website in my posts frequently chime in. That doesn't make it true.

They figure if they repeat the same BS enough times it will convince people they're right. These are the folks who have destroyed this newsgroup. They've also followed me to the automation newsgroup, posting the same trash. Every time they do they get rebuked by the normal people there. Jiminex has repeatedly threatened to destroy this newsgroup and others unless I stop posting. That doesn't make him right. It makes him a jerk with a huge chip on his shoulder.

If you want to see the kind of person this guy is, check out what he's tried to do to Bob Campbell, one of the nicest people to grace this newsgroup for many years with helpful posts, humor and a good-natured, friendly attitude. Jiminex demanded that Bob join his daily diatribes. Bob refused so Jiminex started attacking him. There are several others here who, even though they disagree with me posting about my online store, refuse to join in Jiminex "holy war". Jack Stevens is no friend of mine and no supporter of DIY. Yet when he refused to jump on the Jiminex hate parade, Jiminex attacked him as well. It's been the same for anyone who objected to his thousands of long, vulgar posts. If you don't play by his abusive standards he'll try to drive you out of the newsgroup with the same abuse he levels at me and many others.

I find it amusing that you're continuing to feign the innocent. Amusing and a bit sad as well. For instance, who are the "few other malcontents who hate the fact that you cater to DIYers"? So far, I haven't seen a single DIYer who hasn't had an informative and courteous response from anyone in this Group. I'm one of those individuals that's lurked here for quite some time and only started posting messages recently. I recall that my responses to you (while courteous and respectful) didn't garner the same treatment. It appears that anyone that objects to your shilling your website here merits your personal animus and inclusion in that list you call the "IB". Why is it you ignore this Group's FAQ yet respect the one in comp.home.automation?

You've decided to use your knowledge of the industry to support and cater to the do-it-yourselfer. That's altogether admirable, but what is it exactly that sets you apart from the other individuals that post here and who are offering the same thing? And why is it that the Group seems to almost magically revert back to Steve Ryckman's "vision" when you're absent for an extended period? Within usually two or three messages of your return you're fanning the flames with posts that blatantly attack the core group of posters here, and who are every bit as helpful to the DIY as you are (only they don't couch their response with a "buy from me" link). What about the half dozen or so individuals that do have an online store (and who post here as well)? I've never seen Jim Rojas flog his services, yet I see dozens of posts in which individuals seeking help are frequently referred to either of his online ventures by that same core group of posters that often object to your antics. Why do you think that is?

You mean like you do? If you repeat your assertion that "Frank Olson is a counter clerk" often enough, you'll actually start believing it? Post the name of the company he works for. If, as you say, it's impossible to roll a passenger airliner and survive, back it up with factual independent proof and not simply with more of your assertions and anecdotes involving "friends and neighbours" who "just happen" to be in the industry. Keep in mind that I've actually seen Frank's movie and his photographs, as well as read with interest the link a number of indiviuals have provided where a Boeing test pilot rolled a 707 in the '50's. By the way, I also know an equal number of "engineers and pilots" that can affirm you can successfully roll any modern fixed wing aircraft. This isn't "rocket science".

Fortuately your "assertion" has no basis in fact.

Payback's a bitch, isn't it?

And whenever you get "rebuked by the normal people" here, they immediately join the ranks of the "IB".

Really? He's actually posted that? Where?

I can't for the life of me find the post Jim made that supports this claim. Please provide the Google link.

Proof, Bass, proof!

I'm not a huge "fan" of Jim's "methods", but I respect his "core values". Bob Campbell has my respect as well. We each of us have our methods of dealing with jerks and idiots. I always thought that a reasonable person would respond to reasonable argument but you've actually proven me wrong (or is it that you really are a "jerk and an idiot"). Bob (Worthy's) recent posts were excellent responses. Yours continue to support a position that, well, simply isn't substantiated by the facts.