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You have to factor other things such as the physical size of a sensor does not mean it has a more powerful transmitter, with advancements in circuitry design I imagine the new smaller sensors are more powerful than the old. Linear has used button battery sensors for ages in their long-range stuff

Although .... when I DO use wireless, it's in residential, I've actually pulled out an Ademco 5800 wireless system that was always giving signal loss signals and installed a Napco wireless which is still working reliably to this day. I don't do much commercial anymore but wouldn't use wireless there anyway. I do wireless installs ( I think ) different than most people. I do a pre-test on location of all transmitters and receiver(s) before anything is permanently mounted. And I don't accept anything less than a field strength of 6. Occasionally, ( two/three times) I've had to move the receiver from my first choice location and start over again, but not usually. Sometimes, in a large house, a second receiver has to be added but I've never had to use more than two, even with a house that had over

60 transmitters. Actually, now that I think of it, that house had plaster over wire lath .... at least in some of the walls .... too.

I find that most people install wireless system and hope for the best and accept any field strength that happens. If I get a low reading, either the transmitter or the receiver is moved for a better reading or a second receiver is added.

I don't ever have a problem with a wireless installation. Once it's in, the only way one knows it's a wireless ( other than the presence of the transmitters) is that the batteries have to be changed. And I've used Napco since the 90's ( I think that's when it was introduced ?)

The difference that my method makes is that a wireless system takes almost as long as a wired system and it cost more to the end user. But installing a wireless system is usually the choice of the end user anyway. As long as they're willing to pay for it, I'll install it. But it's going to be as closely reliable as a wired system, as I can make it.

I'm looking at the size of the power source............. and the fact that they're not changing the receivers. If they were changing the xmitter technology along with the receivers, I'd agree with you. And I did mention Linear's use of the button batteries. I know it can be done but receiver sensitivity and noise rejection can make up for low xmitter power. If you're just going to reduce xmitter power .... then you've got to give up something else. My guess is range.

I don't know what the stated range of the new trasmitters is .... but I'd bet that it's going to be less than the old ones.

Were you using Gemini wireless? Its some of the easiest most trouble free stuff I have ever used, and the error code on the LCD RP1CAe2 keypads does indicate the transmitter/zone. Even the LED for the smaller panels like the P-800 aren't that big a deal. Also if programmed for CID most of them can be set to send the info to the CS, and of course I setup all my new installs for U/D from the office so if I have to I can download the log before I ever leave the office. The only problems I have ever had from Napco wireless is a broken transmitter (physically damaged by customer or installer) or a low battery.

The Linear stuff has been nothing but a pain for me. Also the Ademco retrofit to FBII really sucked, but the current series of Ademco stuff has been ok. I don't use much of the Ademco stuff, but I've done a few takeover/upgrades on it. Not as easy to me as Napco Gemini to program, but not horrible.

As a regular dealer Napco sent me a Freedom 64 to evaluate. I plan to set it up as a parrallel system in my new office when I have time and play with some of the wireless as redundant coverage. Much like I had my old office setup with multiple systems for experimentation and training.

Yes, GEM 9600 mostly.

I suspect you've never given Inovonics a fair shot. It blows everything else away in my opinion. Even the big retailer in Arkansas uses it.

That wasn't my point. The point is you don't get that wireless zone information at the central station. You get a generic expansion module failure signal. If you want to find out then you have to upload the event buffer, ask the customer (bad idea) or send a tech. Additionally you don't get a reliable number during wireless placement test. If Inovonics test kit says you're okay, you really okay. If Napco says 4 or better, it still might not be a good enough placement to avoid problems.

I doubt it. Napco's wireless has always had excellent range.

Claiming that Inovonics is great does not support the idea than Napco isn't. That's an olsonic argument. FWIW, Inovonics does make excellent add-on RF components. However, Napco's own wireless is good enough that even someone as incompetent as Jiminex can handle it.

Now I know you've never used Napco. It will transmit per-zone alarm, restore and/or trouble to the central station. I have hundreds of DIYers who have installed Napco systems with no trouble at all. I've also installed Napco for over 20 years.

Bullshit! If a Napco wireless sensor fails to communicate (ie, late to test) the system will notify the central station of the fault, including the zone number. It will not send an expansion module failure signal unless an expansion module fails.

One of the nice things about Napco is the signal is usually solid even in a large home because their transmitters are good. I always preferred wired systems over wireless but when there was no reasonable alternative we installed wireless. The only thing I don't like about Napco is the limited selection of Contact ID codes.

More bullshit! Napco doesn't have dealers and there's no such thing as a "regular Napco dealer."

restore and/or trouble to the central station. I have >hundreds of DIYers who have installed Napco systems with no >trouble at all. I've also installed Napco for over 20 years.

You are correct that Napco will send per zone alarm and restoral signals. However if you reread the post that wasn't what I was talking about. If you have a transmitter that fails to report on time, the only signal you'll receive using the Ademco Contact ID format is a generic expansion module failure with no associated zone information.

You replied to a post from some> >

I have a few DMP wireless systems in the field and recently removed an Inovonics wireless system. Its got pretty good range, but its got its glitches too. While I've never done a ton of Inovonics systems I have done a few, and I freely admit it has longer range capabilities. Still, I have never had big problems with Napco wireless, and I've done some pretty good size houses with it.

Um, Robert. I am a dealer. I sell Napco. Napco sent me a free Freedom 64 a while back to evaluate. Its not the first free stuff Napco has sent me either. Sometimes they have even sent me stuff I didn't ask them for.

Since Inovonics, Bosh, and DMP are each owned separately, each has its own funny interface to the other's product. Bosch uses an 8125INV to interface to Inovonics. Since that interface just fools the panel into thinking it has hard wired popits on the system, you can't get any real information from the wireless part of the system other than locally from the 8125INV interface itself. That goofy Bosch feature would make Napco panels easier to program in comparison, since there is just one programming interface that does it all. Range is certainly a real strength of the Inovonics line over ANY other brand of wireless I have tried. But that comes at a price that is typically higher than any other brand as well. Since GE has their finger in the Inovonics pie too, I wonder how long before Inovonics joins what was once ITI under the GE umbrella?

It already is. They started merging ITI and Caddx part numbers a couple years ago. Caddx has always (in recent years anyway) used the ITI wireless. What ITI has going for it is incredible battery life. 10 years on some things. WOW!.

I know ITI is a part of GE. I was just wondering aloud if Inovonics will get sucked in too.

You know it needs to have a long battery life since you can't replace the battery on many door/window transmitters. I have had some angry customers when their units failed in just 3 to 5 years and had to be replaced. Seems like that happens most on front doors versus window units. I still like Inovonics better that ITI.

However programming ITI wireless to Caddx panels is a convoluted joke especially when using the latest RF keypad. Programming ITI wireless into an ITI Concord is another story

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Could be that you had a number of "4's" which is only one above what Napco claims is the minimum. It's like wattage of a resistor. If you calulate that a one watt resistor is needed, you use a 2 watt, just to be sure. Same with the field strength. That's why I only settle for a

6 or better. If you accept it at 4 and somebody moves something on the job, even something not conductive but simply a solid object, a 4 can easily be reduced less than 3. I don't know what else you could have done to not have a good result with the Napco wireless. I've never heard of anyone who didn't have a good experience with it. As far as what it transmitts due to a failure, I wouldn't know .... none has ever failed!!!!

But I don't think I'd care .... The keypad says what's happening, I'd ask the customer what it said and besides, I'm going to do a service call anyway.

Sorta puts you in that same category.

However, you're the one who doesn't know what the latest changes to the Napco wireless line is. You can't say what has been done to improve the product. As a matter of fact you haven't installed anything in so long you're still working on information that's over 5 years old.

Yeh, Napco expert. Sure!

But it hardly makes a difference. You'll be long dead before the next line of Napco is introduced. You may as well die thinking you really are an expert at something other than being a fat, dying, rotting piece of shit.

And who said that? I didn't. That was all in Bob's post you blended together with mine. The only thing I said was about being a Continental Instruments Master Integrator for 2005-2006. And yes you have to be a dealer (with factory training) to purchase Continental Instruments product. Here again is what Bob posted:

I wonder why you would make such a statement? Who is it exactly that makes the custom private labeled Napco keypads? If it's not Napco, then who exactly? I can name several dealers within 100 miles of where I am that only buy direct from Napco. I don't think Napco says much to promote the fact that it's done, mainly to avoid conflicts with the over the counter distribution channels. I am not that familiar with your product offerings, but having Bass Alarm on the Napco keypads you sell could be something to set you apart from other on line vendors. Then, if you have the volume to support it, you could be direct with Napco too!

Which market? The black market? The list of features the P3200 and P9600 don't have is lengthy as well. Class A Initiating Circuit? No. (NAC) Supervision Module? No. UL fire? No (even DSC Power Series and the MA 3000 has that). Two man rule? No. Card access integration? No. Low battery disconnect? No. Listen In (no Veri-Phone anymore)? No. Zone Doubling? No. Need to change chips for daylight saving to work? Yes. The Napco Gemini series of the P3200, P9600 and X255 are good middle of the road panels, your hyperbole notwithstanding.

Yes, it does have card access integration. While some of the documentation seems to indicate its only available for the X255 the 9600 does have an access chip available making it compatible with the GEMACM1D which can support the Napco line of prox readers or HID prox readers or as near as I can tell any other 26 bit Weigand device.

Supposedly the NAX series of door controllers can also be integrated to function with the Gemini panels, but I have not read the manuals on that one as yet.

Now on the other hand... It wold sure be nice if the 9600 or the X255 had an upgrade module for a class A initiating circuit, notification circuit, and two line communication. I would probably sell a lot more of them for commerical applications now that just about everybody is requiring sprinkler monitoring on new commercial construction.

I misread that as coming from you. I apologize.