Need for pool

Most swimming pool dealers in Pa will not touch them out of liability concerns and that goes for most of us dealers as well.

I work for the minisabnapality and thay want on in there pool. I am looking for a closed loop type.

The park rangers would like one there the ones who will respond to the alarms.

WE have our owne centeral station.

The boss wants one.

What else can I say.

Bass lists every device ever sold on his website, doesn't he?.

Wow...what the heck is a "minisabnapality"...a tiny sabnapality?

check George risk industries they make several pool products

I think it's a medical term. Some kind of "toomer"

I think he means 'municipality' - which explains WHY he works for the municipality...

I sell GRI swimming pool alarms. They're UL 2027 and Florida building code compliant. However, they don't make any float type units that I'm aware of. AFAIK, the float types are not UL listed anyway.

It might seem so. We have over 236,000 products from more than 300 manufacturers online. We handle a number of swimming pool alarms but not the floating type. Ours (GRI, mostly) are designed to alert a homeowner if a door or window facing the lanai (Florida-speak for "enclosed patio" around the pool) is opened. Florida and California now require them on all swimming pool enclosures.

[Ralph and Norton are reading scripts for a play they're rehearsing for]

Norton: (reading from the script) I don't possess a mansion or a villa in France or a yacht or a string of poloponies.

Ralph: (reading) I'm glad to hear... [He stops suddenly] "A string of poloponies"? Where do you see that?

Norton: (pointing) Right there, "a string of poloponies".

Ralph: That's "a string of POLO PONIES"!

Selling non-UL listed product has never stopped you before.

Hahahaha! I miss that show.

most junk yards surprisingly around here wont pay much or will not take them at all

"Robert L Bass" wrote in message news:uR02k.40131$yg6.9898@trnddc01...

It is only one of three options the homeowner has. Pool alarms are not mandated as the homeowners only option. You don't sell the equipment for the other options, so that is why you probably don't mention them. If you want US Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz phone number, you can talk to her about the other options since she is the one that sponsored the bill in Florida when she was a Florida senator. Any alarm contractor that installs pool alarms is completely out of their mind. Why would one take the liability of a child's death for what, 50-100-200 bucks? Those alarms are disabled and/or removed the minute someone moves in but you are still the contractor of record. Until there is an annual inspection and certification requirement, such as on a fire alarm system, no one should touch them. The devices should be deemed a piece of life safety equipment and treated as such. It is a moot issue since we all know the requirement will never happen on a residential application. If you want to make a comparison on the issue, simply ask what a pool company's required liability insurance coverage is and then compare that to yours. I think you will find that there is millions of dollars in difference. If you are going to do it, make sure you are well insured and your carrier knows that pool alarms are part of your business. They may not write your insurance knowing that but you don't want to hide it either. If you do, you might not be covered on a claim. Then do a reality check on your conscience. Someone's computer being stolen and a child's death weighs a little differently. At least it does with me when I know that these devices, in most cases, are something that are being disabled immediately after they get the pool inspection.

they won't take swim pool alarms. wow I guess Bob is right about staying away from them!

That is correct. I also don't sell scuba diving equipment so I lieft it out of the discussion. The OP asked about pool alarms. He didn't ask about

I didn't ask for her phone number and I really don't care who sponsored the bill. Had I been interested in knowing that I;d have looked it up online just like you did.

That's your opinion which is certainly worth all I paid for it.

Installing pool alarms doesn't make you liable for anything. Screwing up might make you liable, in which case I suggest you consider another line ofr work, such as janitorial services.

Yep, I believe they frequently are removed or disabled. Nevertheless, selling them or installing them doesn't make you liable. If you're scared of lawsuits, perhaps you should brush up on your installation skills and/or your legal knowledge.

If there was such a requirement many homeowners would simply disable the units each time you left until the day before your next visit.

On that much we agree. I believe they should also be part of a system -- not the simple, stand-alone devices we see today. However, UL in its infinite wisdom seems to think otherwise.

You know no such thing. All it takes is the death of a senator's child at a home with a disabled device.

I don't install any more so the comparison doesn't exist. However, when I was installing we carried a $2 million liability package. I have no idea how much pool contractors carry though I suppose it's more.

Since when did you develop a conscience? Regardless, the is nothing ethically or morally wrong with providing a device which has the capability of warning homeowners that their child has opened the door leadinjg to the pool. On the contrary, refusing to do so because you fear for your own financial well-being smacks of greed wrapping itself in the cloth of morality.

I know that there are people who disable them. However, every person who actually uses the things provides a measure of protection that would not otherwise exist. It is far more likely that child will drown because someone like you refuses to provide protection than because someone else offers a state approved and UL-listed form of protection.

OTOH, there *is* something both ethically and morally wrong with selling an alarm/home automation panel that *isn't* UL Listed for fire (which

*you* did for over eight months while Elk's M1Gold was pending). Since you boast about selling "complete systems", I'd be willing to bet you provided smoke alarms (both hard-wired and wireless) to your unsuspecting vict- errmm customers. I note you're also selling non-cross-listed 2 wire smokes (Napco Firewolf) with DSC and Ademco panels. You even list the Napco Firewolf as a "DSC Smoke Detector" (the furthest thing from the truth I've ever seen) on your kludge site. If you're going to question someone's morals and ethics, I'd suggest you take a good long look in the mirror first.

And some poor family will burn to death after having installed a non-UL listed fire alarm panel (or smoke detectors that aren't cross-listed to the specific control) that they purchased online from some idiot in Florida with "25 years in the trade". You're nothing more than a cheap "shill", Robert. A flim-flam man. Your lack of both knowledge and integrity coupled to your desire for success *at any cost* makes for a dangerous combination.

Wrong as usual, Olson. I never advertised the M1G home automation system as being appropriate for fire alarm until it received the UL listing.

You're wrong some more. But then, we're used to that.

Once again you're wrong. I recommend System Sensor smokes for all Honeywell panels. They're listed for the purpose (unlike the idiotic relay you recommended using to connect 110VAC smokes to low voltage alarm systems). They also happen to come from the same distributor which saves clients a bit on shipping costs.

I sell lots of Napco smokes to DIY clients who install their own Napco systems. I also have a couple of small dealer clients who order 30 to 40 Napco smokes every few weeks.

I don't list Napco smokes as "DSC Smoke Detectors." I do include them on the same pages as several DSC panels though. Napco lists the FW-2 for use with the following DSC panels: PC1555, PC4020CF, PC5010, PC5020, UA000, PC4701, PC5010 and PC5020. If you ever actually installed any of this stuff you would know that.

However, speaking of "furthest things from the truth" on websites, I get a kick out of the way you "thank" manufacturers and trade associations for material you stole from their websites.

I do that every day and I see a person trying to do the right thing. You, OTOH, see a person who hasn't tried to do anything useful, helpful or honest in your entire, miserable life.

The accusation might sting if there had been a shred of truth in your reasons for making the claim. Of course, like every one of the thousands of flames you've posted, there's not even a distant cousin of the truth. But don't let that stop you from posting. It never has yet.

Did you actually come out and say so? How many of your clients (after reviewing the installation instructions which detail the proper hookups) actually went ahead and installed fire detectors on their systems? Hint: They're the ones that bought the "complete package" from you.

Then you *don't* sell complete systems...

As long as they're four wire smokes, compatibility isn't an issue, is it? Of all the smoke detectors you list though, only one two wire unit is compatible (and it's not even on the Ademco page). Of course, if "Napco" says their Firewolf 2-wire smoke is compatible then it must be so... Heh!

What "idiotic relay" would that be?? Care to post the Google? I think you'll find that in our numerous "discussions" regarding the interconnection of AC smoke alarms to a security control panel, I've always recommended the correct relay. I've also cited the applicable section of NFPA which allows this. You, OTOH, have repeatedly been caught "short" making vague and insubstantial arguments about how it's "against code", etc. You continue to have all the bombast of a buffoon.

I'm sure.

Yes, I'm sure. And I'm also sure "Napco" says it's alright to install their smokes on any panel *they* say.

Oh?? I actually expected you to respond this way. It's quite obvious you DON'T know what you list on your own site... Tsk!

If *you* knew anything about cross listing you'd know it's the *panel* manufacturer that specifies which smoke detectors are compatible, not the other way around. So much for your much vaunted "expertise".

What material have I "stolen"? And what's wrong with acknowledging the contributions various organizations have made for the betterment of our industry. For all your "belly-aching" (and bally-hooing), I haven't received a single complaint or request to have *any* link or image removed (other than the bogus complaint from the "Boinks" guy). You, OTOH have run afoul of several manufacturers, haven't you?

That just proves that you don't know me at all.

According to you, you sold "100's" of ELK M1Gold panels *before* they were UL Listed for fire. You also claim you only sell "complete" security packages that always include fire detectors. What's the matter? Is either of the above not true?

Did you post a warning on your website that the M1Gold *wasn't* UL Listed for fire?? No. You were so eager to "make a mark" (and a buck) you took on a product that you (a) knew nothing about (with the exception of what was in the sales literature and manuals) and had never installed or serviced, (b) was released while the UL listing was still "pending". I consider the latter to be the most irresponsible thing a vendor can do.

I've backed everything I've said about you (that you incorrectly call "a flame") with a verifiable reference (usually posted from your own keyboard). What have you managed? Innuendo, lies, and nonsense you "invent" in your own twisted mind, and sometimes post as being from anonymous third parties known only to yourself.

Why not go back to ignoring me, Robert? It's quite obvious you're ill equipped to engage in any meaningful dialogue that doesn't involve responding with more innuendo, lies, and nonsense.