Fire Alarms Again

James,

A building that only has two stories above grade is not classified as a "high rise".

By "fire communicator" do you mean "fire alarm control panel" ?

What is "required" often varies fom state to state and municipality. Talk to the local AHJ, see what he/she wants.

If you are installing fire alarms, you should be intimatley familiar with NFPA 72 and NEC, section 760. IBC references both these documents. NFPA 72 (2002) will give you spacing requirements for notification applainces.

Another thing to consider is ADA requirements. If this is a consideration, you'll need visuals in public restrooms and other common public areas.

J Barnes wrote:

New or existing structure? Do you mean FACP? Or DACT just for flow and tamper? >The communicator is for the fire sprinklers. Again, Do you mean FACP? Or DACT just for flow and tamper?

If you lived here you'd have to have one pull, one smoke for the FACP, and one horn strobe too, and that's just for the flow and tamper. I guess you live in a state where you don't have to have a fire license to do fire work? Here you do. To do that job here you would find out the building's rating and submit a set of marked up and stamped plans based on that information to the AHJ. Once the plans were approved you would begin work. Once complete you schedule an inspection.

Here are a few answers, Going into this job the contractor told me they only needed a DACT on the flow and tamper. When I contacted the fire marshal for the flow test he told me it needs more because it is a "Hi-Rise Building" I dont think it falls under the heading of a Hi-Rise because it is only 2 levels. I am famillar with NFPA 72 and the how to install the system. I am just trying to understand where I need to look to find out if its really a "HI-Rise" and if so what additional requirements I will need to meet.

James

What ever you find will only be the minimum code and standing on that alone will be a tough argument with your AHJ. It is his juridiction and he can require anything that meets or exceeds the code. It sounds like he has told you what he wants and it sounds like he is not being unreasonable. If I were you, I would try to make him happy. I have found out that when the AHJ is happy, everyone is happy, except the one that has to pay the bill. Use this as a lesson because the next AHJ may have a totally different requirement for the same type occupancy.

Check NFPA 101 2003 39.4.2.1 (2)(b) for an existing building or 38.3.4.1 for new business occupancy.

I hope that helps.

Norm Mugford

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

Which is the exact reason I stopped doing commercial fire.

The AHJ is the "final word" on requirements. If he says it has to be there, it has to be there.

I used to bid commercial fire this way-

a)- tally equipment and labor b)- tally 30% for unforeseen changes c)- tally 20% for more changes d)- total the above items e)- double it, and present bid to customer

f)- take a CPR class, so you can revive your customer after handing him the proposal

g)- get the job after low-bid companies 1 & 2 screw it up royally and piss off the AHJ

why 2003?

That's the version that's approved here in Florida until next year.

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

requirement

I am brutal on myself now and then. :o]

The AHJ has only told me the building needs more. He would not elaborate on what that means. I looked it up in the IBC and think I have it figured out. I will go in for a plan review with him and see what he says. I was hoping some of you may already know what would be required in a 2 story office building. Our state uses the 2003 version of the codes.

The building has 2 restraunts an elevator and a full fire sprinkler system. From what I can tell I need smokes for the elevator recall, and hornstrobes through out. I will also need to tie in the Ansul systems. I am unclear on the size of the RTU's but I think they will have duct detectors in them. IBC says if the building has an automatic sprinkler system it wont need pull stations. Is there anything I am missing?

James B

Amen to that. Who needs that shit? js

LOL - I still bid jobs this way....

As Stanley says, the AHJ usually has the final say on what is required. However, I will mention that a hi-rise in NY is any building over 75 feet. A hi-rise requires a voice-evacuation system as well.

Standard protection would include all paths of egress, teleco rooms, mechanical rooms, electical rooms, tops of stairwells, elev shaft, elev machine room, suppression system/sprinkler device monitoring plus elev recall/ firefighters service/shunt trip.

Rick P.

A "communicator" is an entirely different "animal" from a fire alarm system. I'd check with your AHJ about any additional requirements. In BC, when a sprinkler system requires monitoring (regardless of the size of building), if any additional detection devices are required, they must be supervised by a fire alarm panel and that requires installation of a fire alarm system. From reading your post, someone is confused about what's needed here. Only the AHJ is going to be able to set you straight. In many jurisdictions you can't simply install fire alarm devices without first going through the approval and permit process. This often means sealed and stamped drawings, a building permit as well as an electrical permit.

Each State (and sometimes a City) will adopt different codes and standards (some use earlier versions or haven't officially "switched" to a later standard). The Vancouver Building Bylaw supercedes the British Columbia Building Code (for instance). Vancouver remains the only City in BC that's written it's own "code" (much of which is based on the BCBC and the CBC). That's what makes the fire business such a challenge (and extremely profitable if you happen to know what you're doing).