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New System Design Help

Hey all,

I am being asked to design and install a Fire Alarm System in a new Amish Woodworking Shop.

Now after all the "Giggles", "Say what's??" and "Gufaahaa's" this ain't no joke.

On site there will be a generator with AC inverter and a battery bank. At this point I do not know the amount of time for the battery capacity. In my opinion I can't rely on that as a 24/7 power source.

I am thinking a Solar Panel with Deep Cycle battery that is sized properly for load and time.

One of my challenges is to find a panel that will not be in constant trouble AC Fail. I did an alarm panel years ago like this on a cabin on top of a mountain and when I fed 12vdc to one of the AC terminals on that particular panel it tricked the panel out of AC Fail. That panel was not a Commercial Fire Listed and is no longer manufactured.

Anyone know of a panel today that will do similar or have any other thoughts on this project???

Thanks for your suggestions.

Les

Reply to
ABLE_1
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Any panel that works off of a plug in transformer and has a bridge rectifier on the power input, can usually be fooled with a DC input. Not a 110VAC panel though

Ummm how far away is the barn. Ya-all mite consider a methane powered generator.

Or, you might try a thermal generator. I just don't know how you'd figure out how many candle power equals one ampere hour(?)

Or, I'd guess that they'd use the ox or have a water wheel to turn the mill stone. You might be able to sneak in a generator on the drive shaft of the mill and store the gererated power in standby batteries.

Or, smaller generators on the mechanical sewing machines with them all tied in together to equal on big generator.

Might be able to do the same thing with the horse and buggies too, but they'd have to be manually plugged into the "power grid network" every night.

Reply to
Jim

pick a panel that will do what you need then bug the techs at the factory with your setup and let them figure out the best way to solve the problems.. They most likely know a little more about the working of the panel than most of the opinions you'd get here.. RTS

Reply to
RockyTSquirrel

Take a look at the Mircom FA-1000. The rectifier is part of the transformer assembly located just under the common control board. All you have to do is feed it the DC it needs and your "AC on" light will illuminate (as well as provide the voltage to charge the panel batteries). Your "primary" DC source can be from the deep cycle batteries and solar cell setup you mentioned, but keep in mind that you're going to need a whole whack of solar panels to produce the current necessary to not only charge the batteries but power the fire alarm system as well. I don't think you're going to be able to avoid the use of an engine driven generator which I suppose you can couple to an automatic quick charger for the deep cycle batteries. You can trigger the generator when the battery voltage falls to a certain level so that it'll automatically "top them up".

Reply to
Frank Olson

concider a combo panel it would be easy to trick the ac side

as far as generator does it operate 24/7 then it could be used and 72 hr back up should be used otherwise i would go solar with a big battery.

Reply to
nmarkowitz

The generator would only be running during normal working hours. (what ever they are)

I have not talked to the electrician for the job so I am just guessing that during non working hours the batteries would power the Exit signs and Emergency Lights and nothing more.

I believe that if it were not for the State Wide Building Code in Pa. this Fire Alarm this would not be an issue. The building will be all wood construction and is only about 30' x100' in size. With it being a wood working shop I can only use Heat Detectors and maybe Pull Stations. Then some synced Horn/Strobes. By the time a Heat Detectors would go off there would be a serious fire involved and everyone will be manning the Bucket Brigade just in time for the Strobes to start flashing. That would be during working hours. After hours ............................ I just don't know.

Then again I could Ionization Smokes and hope that they don't use dull saw blades when the cut wood. Lot's of variables that need to get sorted out.

As someone said just choose a panel and get Tech Support to help with the NO AC TRICK. I was hoping that someone would have already did the trick and knew what panel would work. When I did the cabin this way some years ago it was Moose Z900 and at the time it was just a simple as applying 12vdc to one AC terminal on that panel. As I learned most panels are not set up this way due to diodes being place on most panels. I am not looking forward to making board modifications to trick the AC Fail issue. But, I may have to if that is my last choice.

Still looking for more input. Thanks to all for your input.

Have a good weekend.

Les

Reply to
ABLE_1

Reply to
RockyTSquirrel

I think I have found the answer.

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Sized right it should do the trick.

Les

Reply to
ABLE_1

Hey I saw "Witness" so I consider myself an expert on all things Amish however I always wondered how Amish know how to create stuff like computer tables when they aren't supposed to know what those are

Reply to
mleuck

It's a table with a funny "do-hickey" on it. What's so complicated about that?

Reply to
Frank Olson

Hey I saw "Witness" so I consider myself an expert on all things Amish however I always wondered how Amish know how to create stuff like computer tables when they aren't supposed to know what those are

Oh, but they do know what they are, and how to use them.

They just don't use them inside the home, barn, buggy or meeting house.

Les

Reply to
ABLE_1

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