Difference between digital phone and VOIP

Short answer: Two names for the same thing.

Long answer: VoIP is one form of digital phone service. Most "Digital Phone" offerings use IP and moves the data over your regular Internet DSL/Cable/Fiber connection, so that makes them VoIP by definition. Digital Phone Service *could* also mean it uses a separate, dedicated channel and/or a different protocol, but that's not common.

So in most cases the issues are exactly the same ;

- Power backup (if the cable/DSL modem and/or router is down, the phone line goes with it)

- Latency/quality (it's a LOT better today than a couple of years ago, but can still cause problems for control panels)

- User interference (users mess with the router, unplug wires, change service..)

- Reliability (Internet Service Providers frequently cut off service for hours at a time to do maintenance or upgrades)

If you hook up burg systems to VoIP/Digital, make sure both you and the customer understands the limitations, or you will both be very disappointed...

Ain't that the truth ! If a client comes to me for a new installation and he has VoIP, I simply won't do it. If he changes later without consulting me, he signs the liability of exclusion (up on my website), or he finds another supplier - no exceptions!

The few VoIP installs that I have chosen to make work have all been set for automatic daily tests. The daily reports on these systems I watch like a hawk, and most will check in ok with the station about 5 days out of 7 successfully. The other two days...who knows.

I'm pretty hard nosed about this part of our business. Unless a customer is serious about his security, I don't want his business (besides, I'm also "cherry picking" these days - not looking to buy troubles) VoIP is not yet IMO adequate for the job - maybe one day, but not today. Besides, there are IP connection devices that are both here now, and being developed, that promise reliability in the future.

Personally, I'll wait until then......

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, >

Bob,

Have you looked into any of the communications systems specifically designed for IP?

Only in a cursury fashion to be quite honest. I am working closely with a small development company in the process of designing an IP communication unit called Lobenn. At the moment, they are going through the lengthy process of getting ULC approval. I am one of several alarm companies they interface with for information, trialing equipment, and (in my case) the loan of alarm panels.

It would appear to be a decent unit; however, it will require a specialized receiver at the station to transfer signals to the regular receivers, so this may turn out to be somewhat of a "chicken and egg" scenario. Big stations don't move too quickly, so it remains to be seen about the "buyin".

I'm taking a "wait and see" approach to this whole thing, since I don't want or need technical problems of that nature haunting me and my clients.

RHC

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Since I deal primarily with DIYers, I get more calls from folks who are interested in experimenting with new technology. I'm always on the lookout for ways to handle things like VoIP, TCP/IP reporting, etc. I expect we'll see a lot more development in that area as the sunset clause approaches.

The catch with that, at least in residential, is that they still depend on the reliability of the internet connection. Extended service outages, customers mucking with cable/DSL modem hookups, etc. are still just as much a concern.

Yes, for sure ! Customers messing around can screw things up big time.!!

Also, these interface devices cost significant dollars and in most segments of the residential market, price is a concern. In the "low down up front, high ongoing contractual monthly" market segment, perhaps this price can be absorbed, but in the "high up front, low monthly, limited or no contract term" market, it must be absorbed up front. And two hundred bucks is two hundred bucks !!

RHC

I understand that and you're right to be concerned. Unfortunately, this is the way things are going. More and more telco's are switching their long distance services over to VoIP for the same reason homeowners are doing so -- it's less expensive. I'm fairly certain that within a very few years the major portion of telephony in this country will be VoIP. Hopefully, QOS will improve as more innovative devices are made.

Already there are a plethora of direct digital telephone instruments on the market, including the Polycom 501 SIP unit sitting on my desk. These (or something like them) are the wave of the future. This doesn't necessarily bode ill for the alarm industry -- only for those who fail to keep up with the times. [Note: No slight here to my friend, Bob Campbell. He's getting ready to retire and move to Florida anyway, smart guy that he is... :^)]

The question alarm company owners need to ask is not "How do we keep people from switching to VoIP," but "What must we do to be able to continue providing services to them?" I believe we're seeing the handwriting on the wall concerning phone service. I don't pretend to know what the solution will be but I'm certain we need to deal with it more effectively than by simply warning customers of the pitfalls. In case there's anyone left who hasn't noticed, they don't always listen. :^)

Oh, I would fully expect so. Enterprise phone systems have been using VOIP for years, since before the "VOIP" buzzword was coined... often only internally, between the desk sets and their switching unit, but it's the same basic technology.

It's like anything else in technology: what you see at the low-cost, mass-market consumer level pales in comparison to what's really available in features, functions, scalability, and reliability... it's only a question of cost.

Consumer devices will certainly improve as the technology filters down... it's only a question of how quickly.

I don't think we need to worry about VOIP becoming the "de facto" of the major providers until that technology IS reliable. The big backbone providers (Ma Bell and family) can't afford to dump everyone over to a new technology until it's achieved a certain level of reliability... I dunno about the US, but up here, if reliability levels aren't government-mandated, they're certainly government-encouraged. Telus, for example, couldn't just start pulling up landlines and pushing everyone onto VOIP if it weren't 99.99% solid - not only would the CRTC not allow it, the public outcry would force all levels of government to intervene.

We disagree on two fronts here. First, I've worked in the telecomm industry and never saw anything indicating a concern for reliability. If it can be sold at a better margin they'll go for it every time. Second, I'm not at all worried. From my POV the move to VoIP is a major plus. Of course, the fact that I don't sell monitoring has a lot to do with that. :^)

They're already beginning to do it, whether the customers know it or not. (cf: my reference to long distance carriers earlier). They are also offering all sorts of package deals to lure customers away from analog.

This is the USA with Dubya at the helm. Forget about standards, QOS, reliablility, etc. The only issue is whether they made a sufficient deposit in Shrub National Bank.

Same here. Instead they offer loss leader pricing to get vict... er, customers to sign up for the service.

There's the difference. This is America Under The Shrub! The current government turns a deaf ear to the will of the people. In fact, our National Idiot actually believes that he is in the White House

*despite* losing the popular vote by over half a million votes because *God* put him there. He cites the Biblical Passage in Mark 5:21-43 to explain why it's OK for him to ignore the will of the people concerning little matters like Gulf War II, the economy, the ecology of the earth, etc.

Ah, but I digress. At any rate, VoIP is coming and it's a much bigger wave than we might like to think.

Robert I'm going to give you a little help here

The Lobenn unit will not allow you to down load. It also has some other inconsistancies which I cant remember what they are right now. I tested their unit some time ago and rejected it. They were telling me a year ago that they were going to fix all the problems and were seeking listing on the product and to this day, they haven't. They are a very small and new company and personally, I would not invest any time or effort in their product.

I havent used it yet but I understand that DSC has an internet/ wireless communicator that seems more like what the industry is looking for. Only time will tell, of course. Although their receivers are top of the line, and popular with central stations, unfortunately, DSC is fighting an up hill battle, reputation wise, in the realm of installing companies.

Napco has a unit too.

Here's another little tidbit. The new Ademco GSM radio, is a ...... get this now ..... a 9 volt unit and can't be powered from the control panel. How about THAT for engineering for the alarm industry?

Actually you can download with it, any format seems to work and it will work with 2-way voice

I've been playing with the whole setup for months. I never ran into any problems other than some noise with 2-way voice but then again I've got v2 equipment so it sounds like they DID fix whatever problems you had?

That would be the GS3055, it looks interesting, as far as DSC's reputation a lot of companies will go with them for the simple fact they are damn simple and quick to hand program unlike umm.....heh

StarLink? Played with that one too

Wrong, it's 9 volts to 16.5, it just originally came with a 9 volt transformer, they will soon come with 16.5 and can be powered indirectly through the panel using the included transformer in a daisy chain setup

It would appear to be a decent unit; however, it will require a specialized receiver at the station to transfer signals to the regular receivers, so this may turn out to be somewhat of a "chicken and egg" scenario. Big stations don't move too quickly, so it remains to be seen about the "buyin".

I'm taking a "wait and see" approach to this whole thing, since I don't want or need technical problems of that nature haunting me and my clients.

Look at uControl

Mark, I would be very surprised if the Lobenn unit caused any grief in regards to upload / download capabilities. I remember several years ago in my initial meetings with these folks, that was identified as one of the priorities from the alarmco perspective right from day one. They had indicated their goal was to make it a totally transparent situation from the alarmco's position, so you could work and program just as if you were on a POTS line.

I will ask them about that though...

RHC

On Jun 15, 12:42 am, "Mark Leuck" wrote:.

What's uControl?

You have to designate another LNI for your computer modem, I forgot the rest but in my opinion Lobenn was an excellent alternative although as you stated getting the central station to install the equipment on their end might be a problem.

It would have been easier if you'd just said ....... crap!

You've obviously not played with it, then again it doesn't support Napco...yet