Phone use kills DSL connection, even with whole-house splitter

Well, I installed a whole-house splitter, thinking that my problem was with the dongle-type splitter that my ISP provided with DSL modem; but using the phone on the same line that the modem is on still terminates the DSL connection.

Details: Phone service is Verizon, via UTP wiring installed to my apartment within the last two years. Wiring on the Telco side in the NID is sort of haphazard (wires not twisted right up to the screw-terminals), but I'm reluctant to mess with them. Screw terminals have red and green wires to the gray module in the NID that has the user-side screw terminals (also red and green).

I've used a Cat5 cable to connect each of the two phone lines in the NID to a 2" x 3" electrical outlet box just below it, containing (only) Leviton snap-in RJ-12 jacks; done carefully, with spade connectors on the NID side, punchdown on the jacks.

Cat5 cable with RJ-12 plugs connecting the DSL line from jack to a Wilcom PS-15 whole-house splitter.

Cat5 cable, again with RJ-12 plugs from splitter to DSL modem. Linksys WRT54G wireless-capable router (wireless disabled) connected to DSL modem, and serving our home network (again, all Cat5).

All phone wiring downstream of splitter is Cat5, installed by me, and star topology, though that doesn't matter, since I get the same results if I connect our phone direct to Wilcom splitter. I can get dial tone, and dial, without losing the DSL connection, but as soon as ringing begins on the line being called, the connection drops. DSL light on modem relights when phone use is complete, but it takes awhile for the router to

The phones we're using are 2.4 GHz wireless models, if that makes a difference.

Can anyone hazard a guess as to what might be causing this, despite my best and careful efforts? I was vigilant to keep to the USOC and T568A color codes while making up connecting cables, but I might have swapped a tip/ring pair in the phone cables; could that cause this annoying problem?

Thanks,

Reply to
Charles Wahl
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Did you test per my advice in your previous thread? This didn't sound like a "cheap splitter" problem to me, ever.

-Frank

Reply to
Frank

Since March 7th, this is your only post in this newsgroup. Either that, or some of your posts isn't getting out to my server.

Cheers!

Something wrong with your server then.... see my previous 9/16/05 post, cut-n-pasted below.

-------- end -------

Reply to
Frank

Since March 7th, this is your only post in this newsgroup. Either that, or some of your posts isn't getting out to my server.

Cheers!

______________________________________________ Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 98SE)

-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

Reply to
BillW50

Oh you were going by a different name of Frankster... I see it now. = Sorry.

--=20

Cheers!

______________________________________________ Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 98SE)

--- written and edited with Outlook Express v6.0

Reply to
BillW50

The DSL modem connection works fine with all the phone wiring and splitter disconnected.

Likewise, the phone works fine without any splitter, when hooked up to the line alone, without the modem.

I'm not going to hook up modem and phone to the same line without any sort of splitter, because the splitter is intended to protect the modem from phone interference, and vice versa ­ I don't see the diagnostic point of not using a splitter, when there's bound to be interference without a device protecting modem, and phone.

Contrary to indications given in my prior post: When modem and (only one) phone are both hooked up, using the whole house splitter or the smaller dongle splitter provided by Earthlink, and leaving the router unconnected, the behavior is the same: as long as the phone is not used, everything works fine. When the phone is picked up (dial tone), the DSL modem seems to keep connected (DSL and ACT lights lit solid) for about 20 seconds, but, no matter whether the phone is hung up, or dialed, the DSL light will eventually go out. Putting yet another dongle (with only one input and one output) on the phone line downstream of the splitter does nothing at all to help.

The fastest way to restore the DSL connection is to turn off modem and router, reboot modem; and when DSL and ACT lights come back solid, reconnect the router. However, the system will eventually reconnect on its own if left unattended to, with everything hooked up.

It looks like I'm just going to have to have my DSL service connected to our second line, rather than the main phone line. I had hoped to unsubscribe the second line when we stopped using modems, but I guess that's just going to be part of the cost of having DSL.

Thanks,

Reply to
Charles Wahl

"Charles Wahl" wrote

Let's not overlook the "obvious" here.

Before you waste a LOT more time and money, I strongly suggest you get a hard-wired phone to test with. Your problem might be RF interference from the cordless phones, especially if the base unit is located near the modem/computer.

A recent thread (in this group, I think) from a ham radio operator ended with him getting a different modem. His first one was apparently overly sensitive to nearby RF sources.

Good luck!

Reply to
Ken Abrams

Well, this is very odd and must be frustrating.

It sounds like a bad connection (wiring/contact) somewhere. Increased current from POTS kills DSL -- somehow, because I've heard of people whose POTS was broken but still had DSL.

How good are your services? DSL speed & voice volume (through a passive set)?

A wiring defect could easily be the Telco side, but before calling (& potentially paying for a truck roll) you should check out your premises wiring:

Reseat all connections at the NID, disconnect house and run single line to unpowered phoneset & your modem with Y & dongle. See if misbehaviour repeats. If so, premises wiring is likely not the fault, and time to call telco.

When you do this, make sure you've cut parasites like alarm systems out of the loop.

-- Robert

Reply to
Robert Redelmeier

The DSL modem connection works fine with all the phone wiring and splitter disconnected.

Hi Charles... This is normal and expected.

Likewise, the phone works fine without any splitter, when hooked up to the line alone, without the modem.

This is also normal, despite the things I've been told that the DSL signals should be heard through the phone. I've never heard this ever on any of my phones. Although I suppose some phones can hear them.

And what you call a splitter is actually a splitter/filter. Thus everything that plugs into the phone line with the exception of DSL and Home PNA equipment, gets this splitter/filter. This includes fax, dialup modems, and even CallerID boxes.

The part of the splitter/filter that is marked DSL is actually a straight shot without any filtering at all. So it is really like it isn't even there to the DSL modem. Thus this line (or a line before the splitter/filter) must go to the DSL modem without any filtering.

I'm not going to hook up modem and phone to the same line without any sort of splitter, because the splitter is intended to protect the modem from phone interference, and vice versa - I don't see the diagnostic point of not using a splitter, when there's bound to be interference without a device protecting modem, and phone.

Actually the splitter/filter attenuates any frequencies above something like 5K HZ or higher. Which are the DSL frequencies up to

1MHZ if I recall correctly. The DSL modem also gets the voice frequencies as well, but it doesn't care about them and it is ignored within the DSL modem itself. Not externally with a splitter/filter combo.

Contrary to indications given in my prior post: When modem and (only one) phone are both hooked up, using the whole house splitter or the smaller dongle splitter provided by Earthlink, and leaving the router unconnected, the behavior is the same: as long as the phone is not used, everything works fine. When the phone is picked up (dial tone), the DSL modem seems to keep connected (DSL and ACT lights lit solid) for about 20 seconds, but, no matter whether the phone is hung up, or dialed, the DSL light will eventually go out. Putting yet another dongle (with only one input and one output) on the phone line downstream of the splitter does nothing at all to help.

Two things can cuse this. One the phone isn't on the splitter/filter like you believe it is. Or the DSL is also on the splitter/filter as well. Which may work (without a phone picking up), but DSL connection speeds will be terrible. Somewhere around dialup speeds is my guess if it works at all.

The fastest way to restore the DSL connection is to turn off modem and router, reboot modem; and when DSL and ACT lights come back solid, reconnect the router. However, the system will eventually reconnect on its own if left unattended to, with everything hooked up.

It looks like I'm just going to have to have my DSL service connected to our second line, rather than the main phone line. I had hoped to unsubscribe the second line when we stopped using modems, but I guess that's just going to be part of the cost of having DSL.

Thanks, -- Charles Wahl

Nope you don't have to use a second line for just DSL at all. And that would be a waste of money anyway. It just sounds like to me that your wiring (may include splitter/filter) is hooked up wrong. There is a possibility that your splitter/filter and/or DSL modem is/are faulty. But I seriously doubt that yet.

Cheers!

______________________________________________ Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 98SE)

-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

Reply to
BillW50

Ours is installed right next to the NID, and all phone wiring in the apartment is plugged into the "Phone" output from the splitter/filter. For testing, none of the house phone wiring is involved; phone is hooked directly into the filter at the NID. But putting the phone wiring back into service, and connecting the phone elsewhere gets the exact same results.

Doesn't voice go up to about 15-20 KHz, like human hearing?

I was under the impression that the filter also attenuated the low frequencies on the modem side, but whatever!

All I know is that on the splitter/filter, incoming service is plugged into the LINE jack, modem is plugged into the DSL jack, and the phone is plugged into the PHONE jack. And it makes no difference if I use the Earthlink supplied splitter/filter (dongle) or the new whole-house filter by Wilcom that I bought when that wasn't working -- either way use of the phone kills the DSL connection.

There is > How good are your services? DSL speed & voice volume

DSL is not great, but okay. I'm paying for premium speed from Earthlink, "up to 3 Mbps" rather than "up to 1.5" and getting 700 Kbps to 1.4 Mbps. I don't notice any real static on the phone line with the 2.4 GHz cordless phone, though when someone calls from across the street, the volume is louder than when we get an out of town call. Is a "passive set" something without a power adapter?

As I think I said before, the wiring on the Telco side of the NID is not twisted right up to the terminals where the red and green wires to the user side module attach. I'm loath to play with these, since I lost a phone line (the one in question) for a couple days when installing wiring for the rest of the house and connecting it to the Telco wiring at the NID (must have shorted for awhile). The Telco had to make a visit to restore service then.

From NID to outlet box with RJ-12 jacks, I've replaced all the wiring since beginning with this problem, and I don't think there's a poor connection there. The only wiring I haven't changed is the cable from the filter to the modem, which is a Cat5 cable that I put RJ-12 connectors on (because that's what the filter and modem have for jacks).

I'll borrow a non-powered corded phone, and try that. I'll also try another cable between modem and filter.

Thanks for the help,

Reply to
Charles Wahl

Okay.

Some voices might, but the telephone won't go up that high. I seem to remember up to 3KHZ. Ever notice some people sound different on the phone? Ever hear a talk show on the radio with a caller on the phone? Doesn't the phone caller sound poor even on low quality AM radio? Which if I recall correctly, is only good up to 8KHZ.

I don't think so. As you can connect up those splitters/filters backwards, meaning the incoming line and the DSL is switched. And if there was a filter on the DSL marked connection, the phone output would be attenuated and it wouldn't work on the phone line. But it does. So I believe it is all a straight shot except on the phone output of the splitter/filter.

I never heard of a filtered phone not working with DSL yet. Although maybe some phones don't work well for all I know. Being a retired EE though, that phone would have to really load (almost dead short) to cause that sort of problem though.

This doesn't sound good. As it sounds like their telephone switchboard thingy may need a filter on it as well. So when you pick up the phone, so does the building equipment. So it acts just like your phone isn't filtered. Does that other second line also go through their equipment? Or is that one bypassed?

Redelmeier

Earthlink,

AFAIK (as far as I know), all telephone lines are fused (or have a resistor). And I think some of them are fused at the pole (or underground). So this is probably what happened when they accidentally got shorted. Others have a resistor in series which limits the amount of current one can draw. So a fuse isn't really necessary in this case.

I won't think this would be a problem. But something to rule out. But you did rule this out already, right? Another thing is some phones will work if the lines are reversed (red and green lines reversed). And some will not. And I don't know if DSL modems would?

I'd be curious what happens for sure. Although if the building phone/intercom equipment is ruining your DSL signal, that isn't good. As you probably would then need a splitter/filter between the telco and their equipment. And run your DSL straight from there. If this is indeed the problem.

Cheers!

______________________________________________ Bill (using a Toshiba 2595XDVD & Windows 98SE)

-- written and edited within WordStar 5.0

Reply to
BillW50

Well, duh.

The splitter must go on the phone line where it comes in *from* *the*

*telephone* *company* before any other equipment.

DS

Reply to
David Schwartz

Well, there you go, there's some "phone equipment" on the line before the splitter, and when it's in use, it kills the DSL signal.

You need to get the building folks to put the splitter on your line _before_ it hits anything, and take the "DSL" feed and run a separate wire all the way up to your apartment where it'll connect to the DSL modem.

Reply to
William P. N. Smith

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