Stargate Vs other home controllers?

I would highly recommend the HAI product line. The pricing is competitve with he JDS, but HAI has a longer and more reliable record. HAi has more connectivity partners, and more interface devices such as touchscreens, web, Media center, smartphone etc... The stuff that makes the system round out a little nicer.

I am also developing training materials for DIY'ers at my website, I hope to have them up by the end of the month. I will be supporting HAI to start but eventually Q4-2005 support Elk, Home Logic, and other systems as we progress...

I don't think it's as black and white as that. If you are a DIYer that wants the ultimate in custom programming flexibility, the Stargate is superior to the HAI. All the things you mention above to round out the system can be integrated with the Stargate.

Does the Omni incorporate IR? Telephony (callerID/voicemail)? The Omni seemed to be lacking these things last time I compared the two. (I ended up going with an Ocelot though!)

- Mark.

Stargate has analog inputs and (last I knew) the HAI line (Omni etc) doesn't.

So the output of continuously variable ("analog") sensors for light, humidity, temperature, moisture, etc sensors cannot be added directly to the Omni. The work around is a limited choice of higher-priced, proprietary sensors or an additional controller that does have analog inputs connected via (eg) RS-232

With units like the Omni with digital (on or off; 0 or 5vdc; etc) the burden of translating the analog signals into a yes-no trigger ("threshold") lies with the external component.

The ability to input and make calculations on analog value is one of the characteristics that makes programming of HA computers/controllers complicated. HA controllers with analog inputs are intrinsically much more powerful than digital-input-only controllers in my opinion -- all else equal.

HTH ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

Ah yes, I'd forgotten to mention this... this is a biggie. And in fact one of the reasons I eventually went with the Ocelot--a $75 add-on gives you 16 analog inputs.

Right. And with the Ocelot comes the need to do microprocessor programming in an arcane proprietary language (C-max) which makes it unsuited for the vast majority of homeowners.

When the Elk M1 -- an HAI competitor -- was introduced, I assumed that it would have analog inputs like the Elk Magic Modules (MM443 etc). But apparently it doesn't.

The HA controller and software systems I know of 'out there' that allow programming of analog inputs with English language point and click from within the main HA automation software environment are Home Control Assistant

and Savoy's CyberHouse with Elk MM443's. The former software has significant structural limitations (in my dated, cursory experience) and the latter is more than six years old -- and ~four years since it was available to end users. (I am no longer current on Stargate JDS and other controllers with analog inputs.)

The reasons that most commercially successful HA offerings avoid analog inputs (and analog outputs for that matter!) largely revolve around the economics of user support of anything other than an "event" model of home automation.

HAI/Omni and its ilk force the work of converting a continuously variable (i.e., analog) world into "events" (triggers; on-off; 0 or 1; etc) on other devices external to it.

But it's in the real, 'analog' world that much of the fun of DIY HA lies. ....

Mis dos centavos ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

Hi Mark,

The ELK M1Gold does support analog voltage inputs -- up to 208 of them.

OK, so to get a little more info here, I am definitely a DIY kinda guy. The analog input is important as I have a couple of things I want to keep an eye on (mainly temps) One question I have then is this. I know stargate can calculate sunrise/sunset and turn lights on/off from this, but what I am really after is watching a photocell and setting up a logic sequence like this:

If photocell analog input is less than X AND time is after X then X10 light command ON

This would create a more realistic turn on time for outside lights in the winter months when the weather effects the darkness level at a greater level.

Can any/each/all of the controllers we've been talking about handle a situation like this?

Also, Bruce, you mention forums for Stargate, do any of the other controller makers have online forums? What is the support like for HAI? Sometimes it's nice to have a group of actual users to ask questions of!! Thanks to all --James

ELK M1Gold can definitely do it. HAI Omni can't read analog inputs.

ELK has a support forum for the M1 series. Dealers and customers are allowed to participate. You only need a valid serial number. The ELK website also allows users to download new software releases as well as firmware upgrades to the M1 panels. IMO this is a significant step in the right direction for an HA manufacturer.

I don't think you *need* to use C-max. You can access and control all its I/O from the serial port, so you could use a PC-based program to control it.

But I don't think C-max is that bad:

IF Module #1 Analog #0 becomes < 32 // If it gets dark THEN X-10-A1-Switch, Turn On // Turn on light

But then I've been programming for years, so I don't know what's considered "hard" these days.

- Mark.

Check this link BEFORE you purchase anything from Robert L Bass

13 BBB complaints in 36 months

BAD NEWS

-Spike

Not nearly as much bad news as the stalkers with nothing better to do with their time. Pathetic, really.

Do not cross-post this sort of junk to c.h.a

this thread started in cha, and was cross posted to asa. keep your cha crap put of asa, top poster.

What's worse is that three have only been filed recently (since June 19,

2005 when "Sparky" posted the "Wow..." thread). It says he's "resolved" nine, with four now outstanding where there were three before... Tsk!!!

Frank, while it's probably beyond your ability, refrain from cross-posting between a.s.a and c.h.a. Let those jerkoffs swim in their own slime and leave c.h.a out of it.

"Frank Olson" wrote

why don't you go cry to your mommy, it'll do as much good.

Sorry about that. Fogot to check the "Newsgroups" window. I'm usually pretty careful about that since ya'll are so touchy... :-))

Ahhh., The M1 doesn't but the M1 Gold does. That's mentioned on the very last line of the specs ..

With that encouragement I looked some more at the docs which don't mention how to implement analog inputs as far as I kind find. How many bits of resolution ?

I looked too at what was available of the explanation of the rule-building process. Not many obvious ways to organize or check and important functions seem to be missing. Can the rule set be downloaded and externally edited? Can rules be added/changed while the M1 is running? If not, because each rule is necessarily activated by threshold (change of state), not current state, it might take 24 hours for a restart to make each rule do its intended thing.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

Thanks Frank, much appreciated.

The M1 is discontinued. It will shortly* be replaced by the M1-EZ8 (the name may be changed since there's a trademark question regarding that name).

Rules can be externally edited. That is the normal procedure. What functions do you feel are missing? Perhaps they're present but not obvious. I'll be glad to try to assist. If you have ideas for new features I'd be happy to bring them up with ELK as well. They're a pretty user-friendly outfit.

You cannot trigger off a specific value using WHENEVER, but you can poll on time intervals or based on other events which themselves can be based on a WHENEVER rule. You can check for =, >, < or . However, it's usually best to use > or < rather than =. You can use counters to compare two or more inputs (e.g., is the solar heater temperature higher than the pool temperature AND is the poll temperature lower than 87ºF).

New rules can be entered while the M1 is running. The only ones that require a date change are sunrise/sunset rules. Anything else starts running as soon as you enter it.

*As with all manufacturers in this industry, "shortly," "soon," and "within a few weeks" are indeterminate values. :^)