Usenet allowed from work?

Again, you don't seem to understand, it doesn't matter "WHAT CONTENT" as long as it's not an approved connection. That's all it takes. Anyone checking the connection point can tell it's a proxy or other and that it's not a company approved site, it's that simple.

So you still feel it's compassionate of you to help a person break, knowingly break, company rules? So, both of you are very unethical.

Violation of Company Policy is unethical, no matter what your BS reason is.

Under this situation I felt it was the HUMAN thing to do becuase I felt sorry for her, being a skating fam myself. I did feel really sorry for her (and her injured skater friend ), so I felt that I was simply being compassionate. Under this situation, we were NOT being unetical, no matter WHAT some people might say. I felt that under this situation, her boss had NO RIGHT to keep that information from reaching her, under this situation so I was doing the MERCIFUL thing to do, and granther an alternative gateway to get to various figure skating websites to keep up with what was going on. I was NOT going to let some INHUMAN network admin keep her from reaching that information, in this situation. I felt that sorry for her, and her figure skater friend.

We skating fans can be a tight-knit bunch in a situation like that, and more than a few of us have helped people circumvent company rules, under situations like that. Call us unethical if you like, but I call it being human.

In our ISP configuration before our present one, we -did- find that people listening to internet radio was pushing up our costs noticably.

In another branch of the same department, they had to come down heavy on people because the excess bandwidth charges for internet radio were adding over $3000 per month to the bill.

One person is shown how to do it by their kid at home, they show other people how to do it, the bandwidth adds up.

It wasn't worth the book-keeping involved, having HQ create the appropriate financial codes, doing the monitoring, creating reports, having those reports translated into invoices, getting the unions to agree that if the amount wasn't paid in a reasonable time that it could be docked from pay, making the arrangements with the payroll department, etc., etc..

The branch I work for are definitely not policy ogres, but we couldn't afford not to block internet radio.

Exactly. If the company thinks it's OK, then people don't have to bypass any security measures. If they can't get access, they simply ask IT for help. You only need to bypass security if you're doing something that is not allowed (and with some bigger corporations, the contracts are pretty tough, up to the point where even lawyers gently cough and suggest you might want to look for another place to work...).

Working in a liberal company is nice (BTDT, our managing director wasn't too bad at Counterstrike either) - but you can't assume that all companies will be like that.

Hell, in some big USian two-letter corporations even public swearing can get you into trouble ;-)

Juergen Nieveler

Which of course might make things worse.... is she just surfing for private stuff, or is she sending confidential information to a competitor?

She'd at the very least get a substantial talking-to, and if she can't come up with a good explanation on what she was doing she might be layed off because her boss cannot trust her anymore.

Juergen Nieveler

Actually, it's a very human thing to be Unethical and then try and justify being unethical so that you can feel better about it.

Fact is, breaking company rules/policy for personal reasons is Unethical and can get you fired. Advocating breaking company rules/policy is Unethical and could make you liable for the results - it's that simple.

Blocking internet radio, if you already have a firewall, is simple and almost always worth the cost to implement - the savings in productivity is something you can measure.

Well, I took most of it down (except the information on Tor), because I discovered a way to fool most filtering products into allowing connections to my radio station. I created a subdomain, under my domain, and pointed it to the IP address currently assigned to my by Live 365. Since either the Live 365 web-based player, or the Radio 365 client app, uses the raw IP numbers to connect to stations, the IP lookup that filtering software uses to see if its a banned site will live my domain, instead of Live365.com, associated with that IP, and will allow my station to come through, even if the rest of Live 365 is blocked. I have basically thrown the filtering products for a loop doing this, and allowing people to get my station WITHOUT the need to use anonymity services, open proxies, SSH/VPN/SSL tunneling, etc. etc. All they need to do is just follow the link from my web page (which is STILL not in any filteirng lists), which uses the raw IP numbers, and they will get my station, without having to install ANYTHING, use any proxies or annomymity services, or make ANY modifications to the machine. A long as my domain is not added to the filtering lists, my station will get through to most workplaces around the world, without having to be very tech saavy. Just "plug and play", as it were.

Since they are not using any proxies or anonymity services, or encruypted tunneling, and are making NO modifications to the machine, it would be that much harder to fire them for abusing company resources, if the their filtering software is letting my station through, without that use of ANY circumvention methods whatsoever. So I have thrown the filtering products for a loop, and I have thrown employers for a loop, since they cannot fire someone who did not use ANY circumvention tools, and got my station just becuase the filtering software failed to block it.

When my subdomains propagate to all name servers worldwide, in a day or two, it will become network admins WORST NIGHTMARE, as they try to figure out WHY their filtering software is letting my station through. I think a lot of admins will practically be tearing their hair out trying to beat me on this one.

Productivity? That depends on your typical employee. For my part, I am generally more productive when listening to music -- My job is a flat salary to complete 100% of the work that arrives. I do not have any hour requirements, some days I work 3 hours, others I work 16.

My company has no specific interest in how long it takes me, just that the job gets done.

Not everyone can handle the distraction, but speaking for myself, I

*need* the distraction for the few moments when I am waiting for the system, otherwise I get distracted and do something else which doesn't yield as easily as music.

Indeed -- My $DAYJOB is a classic example, they are extremely tolerant of just about anything. There are a few exceptions, disrespect shown towards fellow employees or subordinates is one example.

One of the other exceptions is streaming (anything, audio or video) because second to employee compensation, bandwidth is our single largest expense, and due to our location, we can't go any faster.

We live and die by our network's uptime and ability to service user and employee needs.

Since we're located in an at-will state, no explanation is required, there is no "wrongful dismissal", you simply don't stream anymore or find another place to work.

Beyond the above two, it's VERY difficult to get fired. Substance abuse will do it, but only after it impacts your ability to do the job. Doing no work at all for over a month will usually get you put on probation, but not fired immediately.

If even a small percentage of employees started streaming over a long period of time, we'd be out of business faster then the above. Music is fine, just bring it from home.

And there are many ways to get that "Distraction" without using company resources.

In companies where they provide NO filtering, when it's implemented we see/hear a lot of complaining during the first 30 days, and a general decrease in productivity during that period, but, within a couple months there is almost always a increase of 30% in productivity for those that have access to the public internet. Additionally, implementing phone logging and monitoring improves productivity also, but the increase when filtering internet access is the largest increase typical.

Indeed -- I bought this newfangled emm pee three player to handle my own music needs. It's just like streaming radio, but a hell of a lot better sound quality, and I can control exactly what plays.

I can imagine -- It depends on the individual, a lot of people can't handle even minor distractions.

We caught one chap trying to run a Darts group from his office, he was found to be spending several hours per day before we were hired - they presented him with his violation of company policy and told him he could take a pay cut for 6 months and keep his job or he could quit today... He took the cut and once he was blocked his productivity returned and the pay cut made up for the more than 6 months of stealing time from the company.

Well, I don't see listening to web radio as stealing anything from the company. Listening to web radio is NOT stealing, contrary to popular opinion..

And phone monitoring can be evaded by using your own cell phone. With an estimated 170 million cell phones, just in America, it is not that hard for someone to use their cell phone to avoid phone logging. And with the "vibrate" feature, nobody will ever hear your phone ring when you get a call, you just feel a "buzz" in your pocket. Some of the people I have called back on my talk show, when they are at work, have been to their cell phones. As a result, there is no POSSIBLE way they can find out that someone is gabbing with me on my talk show, whenever they use their cell phones to talk to me, since cell phones cannot be monitored by company phone systems.

If it violates company policy, then and if it impacts ANY business function or performance, then it's stealing company resources.

And that still makes you an unethical hack for telling people how to violate company policy and security measures.

Using your own Cell phone has no impact on the company network nor on security as long as it's not connected to the PC. This means that you're all wet again, as you were saying that people using their computer at work could not be tracked, detected, known, and that they could not track them if you called them on their company phone - we've proven this information from you to be false in every example you come up with.

If they call your show from their home it doesn't get tracked at the office either, doesn't show on the company network.... So, the point is that you have been exposed as unethical by your own words and practices.

Oh, and one thing, depending on the person/company, the phone may be paid for by the company, which means they are entitled to all call logs, which means that if the phone is provided by the company that the company can still check/detect your call or them calling you.

So, again, if the person is using company resources it's easy to detect. If the person is using company resources against company policy they could be fired for an unethical action. Since you promote unethical actions you are unethical.

You use bandwidth and electricity. That IS stealing - in some countries there's even a special law about that.

Listening to a normal battery-powered transistor radio is not stealing.

Juergen Nieveler

Not is is NOT stealing (unless you illegally crack someone's password to do it). As long as you do not use an illegally obtained password, it cannot be considered stealing. It is NOT illegal to listen to web radio from where, ANYWHERE, unless you break someone's password to do it.