Winload question

RHC: Short answer....no !

You'd think after all these years they'd figure out a way to combine the two downloaders, everyone else has

Napco makes it easier. They upgrade a single downloader each time there's a new product or series. Only the very oldest (out of production for many years), models use the old software.

Napco still makes even that software available for download for any dealer who needs it. Some people prefer DSC. though.

Perhaps it's because they're used to it. Old habits are hard to break. :^)

RHC: Remember Mark, Paradox cant even maintain continuity of keypads or panels from one version to another, so why would they bother to update the newer software to "read" the older software....:((

Honeywell and DSC have one package for all panels, Napco is still behind the times

So does GE/Caddx and GE/ITI

They sound a lot like Paradox

Remember that only 5% of installers/dealers use downloading software, that's why it's usually crap or slow to update

Oops, my mistake. I was thinking you were discussing a DSC product... not the Esprit. Next time I'll pay closer attention.

Actually, I just ran up against a problem with Napco software tonight. I went with a friend to program his system using a new laptop. I installed the beta software and it was fine until I went looking for a port for the PCI-MINI-USB. Software wanted the driver. I installed the driver. Softwae wanted .net so I downloaded .net and tried to install it. Program bombed. :(

I never installed a Paradox system. I'll take your word for it. I'll call tech support on Monday and see what's up.

Problem is then I have to go back again and sometimes it's hard for me even to leave the house. Some days I'm fine. Today was mixed. I went to a pain management seminar at the Wellness Community but I had to take morphine just to be able to go.

And yet you were willing to send the same beta software out to anyone who asked, smart move, does Napco approve of this?

A drug-addled individual at the download computer, just what your customer's need

I would say that close to 100% of dealers use UL/DL software, just not on every job. Maybe 95% of the jobs are field programmed at most companies, but I'll bet of those 95% maybe 30-40% will eventually be hit with a downloader for remote service.

You would be very wrong, want proof ask any of the manufacturers

No, it was dumb move. Thank you for warning me. Also, I meant any dealer.

I pray you never get sick like this.

I can still program a panel, Mark. The hard part is moving around. I was discussing this very topic with a friend and one of my nurses the other day. People who abuse drugs certainly become "drug addled." When used properly, in controlled quantities, ones faculties are not affected in the same manner nor to the same degree. Mostly, you just slow down a little.

When the doctor first told me what I would be taking, I was worried about addiction and all the other bad things these drugs can do. I was actually concerned that I'd become a junky. He explained that was the stuff of old movies, not reality.

You've made that comment before and although I'd guess that you're fairly accurate in what you are observing, my first thoughts are that the installers that you deal with have got to be on the low end of the ladder. I know I'm in a metro area which there's a larger installer base .... but I likely don't have as large a cross section of installers as you do, to judge from, (so that may have something to do with the fact) but I don't know of one single installer that doesn't download. And that's got to be in the hundreds. I know that there are some panels that are just too simple to waste the time to download, so I do them manually. But even then, sometimes I just download it because I'm more confident of not making mistakes with the downloader against manual programing. Unless someone is consistantly installing small systems I don't see any reason why someone would NEVER download. I'm presuming that other download programs have a way to pre-program all the features that you normally use, so that only minor modifications to the program need to be made when doing a new installation. That way, most times, more than 50% of the program is already done. Just add account numbers, change configuration of PIR etc zones and add the name and address. You don't have to fill out a program sheet. or do any record keeping, it's all in t he laptop. What could be simpler?

So, that's why I'm thinking that the installers that you come in contact with are probably just not ......... ummmm (to be kind) up on all of this here new fangled tekno-olodgy stuff. Some people just don't want to make that one final plunge of learning something new to make things easier.

Reminds me of that old story about how to make a camel drink enough water to last seven days in the desert. Normally camels can only hold enough water for six days. But .... the secret to the seventh day is .... when they're watering up, just before they finish drinking, you get behind them and slam their balls between two bricks and the amount of water they take in, is the seventh days worth.

Maybe you should get a set of bricks for some of your dealers. Although, I don't know how you'd get behind them while they're manually programing.

That's the problem. Mark says this is what he is seeing. He probably believes what he's saying. He's just wrong.

That is why I insist that any of my DIY clients who want help programming use the downloading software.

I think you're exactly right, Jim. There are a lot of guys out there who have would rather not bother to learn any more than how to connect the pieces, call the job in and move to the next customer. This kind of installer is certainly going to depend on the kind of company Mark works for (nothing negative intended by this). They handle the programming. They do the billing. The dealer only needs to get the system wired and connected to a phone line.

No I'm not saying what I'm seeing, I'm stating what the manufacturers have said, if you want proof just ask any of them.

Feel free to believe what you want tho

That's not true, you have no idea how our dealers do business

Most systems are not sold by manufacturers directly to dealers. Most are sold to distributors. As a reult, most manufacturers don't even know who their dealers are, let alone how many of them use the software.

I believe you are wrong.

I'm not certain that you know how most of your company's dealers do business. It's pretty clear that you don't know how most dealers operate though you might believe you do.

It's OK, Mark. It won't hurt you to admit you're wrong about something. :^)

And yet apparently you do, I think I'll stick with what the manufacturers say

Fair enough

And I'll go by what I've personally witnessed during the last 18 years in the trade. Every single company I've worked for, subbed for, and every single installer I've met from other companies use downloading software, period.

That's 100% that I've personally observed, not hearsay from unspecified "manufacturers". How many manufacturers have given you that bogus data, and what are their names?

They may not use the software on every job, but all of them use it at least occasionally.

DSC, GE and Honeywell, is that ok?

It's easy to figure out, take a look at any download software out there and compare it to any other Windows-based software and tell me how much effort was put into development?

I love Compass but even the new v2 looks and acts like the old Compass which still looked old even in the Windows 95 era. DSC looks better but still old tech, Napco has a horrible interface, Paradox Winload is a joke I'd say the most modern (and complex) is GE/ITI which isn't saying much. But like your hero RLB you can believe whatever you want.

How does a manufacturer know who is or isn't downloading? I've asked the Napco techs and they just say "most". And I'd think that's only a guess on their part based on the number of people they talk to when troubleshooting.

What is it that you think is horrible about Napcos? I've never had a problem using it.